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MakeMusic Forum > Public Forums > Finale - Windows - FORUM HAS MOVED! > Change in Forum Location  Forum Quick Jump
 
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Zuill
"The Troll"



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Date Joined Oct 2003
Total Posts : 29077
 
   Posted 1/1/2017 10:51 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Let's get at least one post in this thread on this old forum in the new year.

Happy New Year!

Zuill


"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
 
Win 7 64bit, 2011b, 2012c, 2014d, 2014.5, 25.2
 
Favorite Forum quote: "Please, everybody, IGNORE THE TROLL!"

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Ebony Ivory
On Ebony And Ivory I'll Tinkle All Day Long



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Date Joined Dec 2005
Total Posts : 4594
 
   Posted 12/28/2016 8:17 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Of all the forums (fora?!) I use on the web, I actually like this one the best. And (apart from the people, their knowledge and the subject matter), I actually mean - the forum itself: its format, modes of use, etc.

Despite being "old tech", this forum is the clearest, the easiest to glance through to update on what's been going on, to track responses to one's own questions and comments, and so forth, of any that I use.

If MakeMusic is convinced it's no longer worth bothering with, I wonder whether they would hand the whole thing over to someone else who WOULD be willing to host, run and maintain it, for the common good?

Brian


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bvstudios
Registered Member



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Date Joined Jul 2010
Total Posts : 156
 
   Posted 12/23/2016 2:38 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I've been thinking, and I think I have it.. When MM signed with the new provider, I would bet the contract included some sort of exclusivity clause, which essentially forbids the company from operating any similar product which may compete with the new item.

It's a reasonably common clause, but in most every case I've seen, it only benefits the new provider and fails both the buyer (MM) and their downstream connections (us).

Why CEO's go for it is beyond me. It's like buying a Chevy and being told that for as long as you have that Chevy, you can only operate that Chevy. You are forbidden from driving your Toyota, and by the way, no one else can, either. Because you bought the Chev, the Toyota simply has to be locked up and allowed to rot.

No one in their right mind would agree to that, but in the business world, they do it all the time.


K M Frye




Finale 2014.5, PM 2011, 2010, 2007, 2005, 2003, 2000

GPO4, WORLD, JABB3

M-Audio, Boss JS8, Roland VSC-55 Sound Canvas, Rhodes 660 workstation, Roland MC-50 composer (yeh- it's old, but it works if you can find the floppies), Reaper 4.32
Windows 7

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highlife66
Registered Member

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Date Joined Jun 2002
Total Posts : 61
 
   Posted 12/23/2016 2:25 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Keep this forum going until the new "better" one gets the bugs fixed. This forum has been very helpful to me...
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Mike Rosen
himself



Email Address Not AvailableClick to visit Mike Rosen's website.Send a Private Message to Mike RosenAIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined Feb 2006
Total Posts : 14146
 
   Posted 12/21/2016 1:58 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
"My mind is made up. Don't confuse me with facts."



Mike Rosen
www.specialmillwork.com

Bass with Choir of the Sound www.choirofthesound.org
Volunteer copyist (The Gang of Twelve) for the Barbershop Harmony Society
FINALE TIPS at www.specialmillwork.com/finale-tips-and-tricks/index.html

Finale 2014.5 on El Capitan
Simple Entry, QWERTY keyboard, numberpad. That's my system, and I'm stickin' to it.

"As a musician, he's a damn fine woodworker."

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Zuill
"The Troll"



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Date Joined Oct 2003
Total Posts : 29077
 
   Posted 12/21/2016 12:57 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Only if there is a standing ovation. The way I look at it, that ain't happening.

Zuill


"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
 
Win 7 64bit, 2011b, 2012c, 2014d, 2014.5, 25.2
 
Favorite Forum quote: "Please, everybody, IGNORE THE TROLL!"

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Motet
Isorhythmic



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Date Joined Dec 2002
Total Posts : 12849
 
   Posted 12/21/2016 11:47 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
The encore comes after the finale, right?


Finale 2014.5, 2011b, 2005, TGTools
Windows 7, 32-bit
MIDI input
Finale Transposition Chart

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Ebony Ivory
On Ebony And Ivory I'll Tinkle All Day Long



Email Address Not AvailablePersonal Homepage Not AvailableSend a Private Message to Ebony IvoryAIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined Dec 2005
Total Posts : 4594
 
   Posted 12/21/2016 7:15 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
ttw said...
Well, I really liked Encore which is supposedly being refurbished. I survived so I'll survive after Finale.

Encore was wonderful - and I only moved to Finale because Passport Designs went belly up, and Coda (as it was then) offered me a competitive cross-grade.

Amazing, that my entire Encore 4.11 installation (yes, I still have it so I can access my legacy pieces) takes up a grand total of 1,708,532 BYTES of disk space - oh, plus the fonts, I guess. And yet it still let me compose, arrange, print and perform music!

Oh, and I still have Finale 97 (my first version) installed, at a "whopping" ( ;-) ) 13,364,949 bytes!

Brian


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Mike Rosen
himself



Email Address Not AvailableClick to visit Mike Rosen's website.Send a Private Message to Mike RosenAIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined Feb 2006
Total Posts : 14146
 
   Posted 12/21/2016 1:13 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Jim Coull said...
So Mike, in addition to all your other talents & skills, you are also a fan of Becketts?

JC


Theater major in the late 60s-early 70s. I can't help it!



Mike Rosen
www.specialmillwork.com

Bass with Choir of the Sound www.choirofthesound.org
Volunteer copyist (The Gang of Twelve) for the Barbershop Harmony Society
FINALE TIPS at www.specialmillwork.com/finale-tips-and-tricks/index.html

Finale 2014.5 on El Capitan
Simple Entry, QWERTY keyboard, numberpad. That's my system, and I'm stickin' to it.

"As a musician, he's a damn fine woodworker."

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Mike Rosen
himself



Email Address Not AvailableClick to visit Mike Rosen's website.Send a Private Message to Mike RosenAIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined Feb 2006
Total Posts : 14146
 
   Posted 12/21/2016 1:11 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Dan Kreider said...


To what end? Catharsis?

Dan


You say that as though it were a bad thing.



Mike Rosen
www.specialmillwork.com

Bass with Choir of the Sound www.choirofthesound.org
Volunteer copyist (The Gang of Twelve) for the Barbershop Harmony Society
FINALE TIPS at www.specialmillwork.com/finale-tips-and-tricks/index.html

Finale 2014.5 on El Capitan
Simple Entry, QWERTY keyboard, numberpad. That's my system, and I'm stickin' to it.

"As a musician, he's a damn fine woodworker."

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Michel R. E.
Registered Member



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Date Joined May 2003
Total Posts : 7430
 
   Posted 12/20/2016 11:51 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Dan Kreider said...
Not trying to start an argument, as mine was a tangential comment. Just casting a vote for respectful dialog, no matter what.

Kind regards,
Dan


When someone speaks down to me, it's considerably past time for "respectful dialogue".


Finale (started with ver. 3.0) using 2012 (2014 has been shelved for its lack of support for older Garritan libraries), putting Finale 25 through its paces.
Windows 8.1
basically ALL Garritan libraries, plus XSample Chamber Ensemble.

"Art critics suffer from Pigeon Syndrome. Pigeons like to leave their mark on monuments. But at the end of the day, the pigeon remains a pigeon, and the monument remains a monument."

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Dan Kreider
Registered Member



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Date Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts : 88
 
   Posted 12/20/2016 11:47 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Mike Rosen said...
Maybe it's time for all of us to say what we feel, loud and rude.


To what end? Catharsis?

Not trying to start an argument, as mine was a tangential comment. Just casting a vote for respectful dialog, no matter what.

Kind regards,
Dan


Finale 2014d on Windows 10
Editor at Grace Music

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Jim Coull
Registered Member

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Date Joined Jun 1999
Total Posts : 2723
 
   Posted 12/20/2016 11:47 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
So Mike, in addition to all your other talents & skills, you are also a fan of Becketts?

JC
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Mike Rosen
himself



Email Address Not AvailableClick to visit Mike Rosen's website.Send a Private Message to Mike RosenAIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined Feb 2006
Total Posts : 14146
 
   Posted 12/20/2016 11:40 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Dan Kreider said...
Brian: I agree that we're all frustrated by this major misstep. But I think we'd do well to keep it respectful. Personal attacks are unlikely to give our requests a better hearing.

Just my two cents. I share the feeling of general disgruntledness and bewilderment, FWIW.

Regards,
Dan


I disagree. They have gone beyond hearing what their users say, respectful or not. Maybe it's time for all of us to say what we feel, loud and rude.

Because Godot will arrive, before they admit they made a mistake.



Mike Rosen
www.specialmillwork.com

Bass with Choir of the Sound www.choirofthesound.org
Volunteer copyist (The Gang of Twelve) for the Barbershop Harmony Society
FINALE TIPS at www.specialmillwork.com/finale-tips-and-tricks/index.html

Finale 2014.5 on El Capitan
Simple Entry, QWERTY keyboard, numberpad. That's my system, and I'm stickin' to it.

"As a musician, he's a damn fine woodworker."

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SF
Registered Member

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Date Joined Dec 2001
Total Posts : 1555
 
   Posted 12/20/2016 11:35 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
WHAT???!! The idea of moving forums does not mean the company is going belly-up. I've sat back reading this until now. This forum will be here to stay, to search etc…just locked. There is a new forum…either go to it or not. Do I like it…No, but how many times have I heard that this forum is subpar.

For many, many years there was never an official Finale forum and there was just the email forum (that continues on today) which helped Tobias create TGTools and showed MM that a forum would be a good idea. Frankly I still benefit from THAT forum more than I do here. Times change…it's time to move on. It might not be perfect but it will evolve and we will all find a place…or move on but Finale will still be here.


MPB 17" 3Ghz Intel Core 2 Duo, 8GB, 10.6.8 and 10.11.6
MacPro (mid 2010) 2.8 Ghz Qual-Core Intel Xeon, 16GB, 10.8.5, 10.11.6, 10.12 Three 27" Apple Displays
Finale 2.6.3-->25, Sib. 3.0-->7.5, Logic X, QuicKeys 4.0.7, DoubleCommand DoubleCommand, Mouse Locator Mouse Locator

Post Edited (SF) : 12/20/2016 10:39:30 PM (GMT-6)

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Dan Kreider
Registered Member



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Date Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts : 88
 
   Posted 12/20/2016 11:34 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Brian: I agree that we're all frustrated by this major misstep. But I think we'd do well to keep it respectful. Personal attacks are unlikely to give our requests a better hearing.

Just my two cents. I share the feeling of general disgruntledness and bewilderment, FWIW.

Regards,
Dan


Finale 2014d on Windows 10
Editor at Grace Music

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Michel R. E.
Registered Member



Email Address Not AvailablePersonal Homepage Not AvailableSend a Private Message to Michel R. E.AIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined May 2003
Total Posts : 7430
 
   Posted 12/20/2016 10:32 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Zuill said...
Worst case scenario: MakeMusic goes belly-up.
Zuill


sadly, the "worst case scenario" has a very real, tangible effect on us.
if MM goes belly up, there will be a limited time to continue using Finale before issues pop up. no bugs will get fixed. And lots of other issues.
If I lost Finale, I'd lose years and years of work.
Then I'd have to spend a LOT of time I don't have to learn a new software package, which will take time away from my composing.


Finale (started with ver. 3.0) using 2012 (2014 has been shelved for its lack of support for older Garritan libraries), putting Finale 25 through its paces.
Windows 8.1
basically ALL Garritan libraries, plus XSample Chamber Ensemble.

"Art critics suffer from Pigeon Syndrome. Pigeons like to leave their mark on monuments. But at the end of the day, the pigeon remains a pigeon, and the monument remains a monument."

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Michel R. E.
Registered Member



Email Address Not AvailablePersonal Homepage Not AvailableSend a Private Message to Michel R. E.AIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined May 2003
Total Posts : 7430
 
   Posted 12/20/2016 10:27 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Ebony Ivory said...
Adam W. said...
You've all been with us for a long time and you've come to expect a high level of service from our team including phone support. This is a big change in our support model and I can tell that there's some skepticism as to how well it can work. We're fully committed to continue offering the excellent level of support you're used to. All of that being said, I understand that talk is cheap so all I can ask is that you give us the chance to prove it.

Constructive feedback about our products makes them better, and we've opened a new centralized venue for those conversations to take place. Our new community is open for all of you to make any comments and conversation you'd like!

This simply stinks of patronising arrogance. "[We've] all been with us for a long time", YES, we HAVE. That's what pays for YOUR job, matey. Without US, there would be NO you. And this FORUM is where we talk to and help each other. YOUR users, YOUR income source.

So stop frigging pontificating, and LISTEN to the very people who PAY YOUR SALARY. Your USERS.

Brian


Hear hear!
What he said!


Finale (started with ver. 3.0) using 2012 (2014 has been shelved for its lack of support for older Garritan libraries), putting Finale 25 through its paces.
Windows 8.1
basically ALL Garritan libraries, plus XSample Chamber Ensemble.

"Art critics suffer from Pigeon Syndrome. Pigeons like to leave their mark on monuments. But at the end of the day, the pigeon remains a pigeon, and the monument remains a monument."

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Ralph L. Bowers Jr.
Polymathist



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Date Joined May 2012
Total Posts : 883
 
   Posted 12/20/2016 10:23 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Zuill said...
The way I look at it is: if they make the changes and the product still gets better, and their customer base increases, then we are all winners. If it backfires, they might be scrambling to get things fixed. Worst case scenario: MakeMusic goes belly-up.

Zuill


And, maybe a few that sold the company on this new pigs ear ends up getting fired. It's happened in the past.


Finale 2010b, 2011b, 2012c, 2014d, 2014.5, Version 25.2; TGTools Pro, Patterson plugins, JW plugins (current for each Finale Instalation)
Sibelius 6.2, 7.1.3, 7.5.1, 8.5.0, Write Score Sound Sets, TMT Publisher Bundle Plugins, Bob Zawalich plugins, Dolet 6.6
Print Music 2004, 2010a, 2011a, 2014a
Progression, Progression 2, Progression 3, Notion 4, Notion 5 (Notion 5 not really any better than 4, [Notion 6 (bought but not installed)]
Pro Tools 9.5, Reaper
Kontakt 5
GPO4, GPO5, World Instruments
SmartScore X Pro, SmartScore X2 Pro, PhotoScore Ultimate 6 & 7 & 8.04 ( 7 has some utility----best of those available, 8 has some issues that need fixing)
M-Audio "Oxygen 25" Midi input keyboard (recent addition 2014)
Systems (5) // Windows XP Pro (32bit), [email protected] Windows 7 Pro, 8.1 Pro, Windows 10 64 bit, 4GB - 16GB RAM
Paper & Pencil

BMus, MM (Musicology)

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ttw
Registered Member

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Date Joined Nov 2005
Total Posts : 776
 
   Posted 12/20/2016 10:04 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Well, I really liked Encore which is supposedly being refurbished. I survived so I'll survive after Finale.


Finale 2014.5, 25
GWI, GPO4, GPO5, JABB 3, Steinway Basic, COMB2

Windows 10 Pro HP Envy Desktop
Windows 10 Home HP Portable

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Zuill
"The Troll"



Email Address Not AvailablePersonal Homepage Not AvailableSend a Private Message to ZuillAIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined Oct 2003
Total Posts : 29077
 
   Posted 12/20/2016 8:22 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
The way I look at it is: if they make the changes and the product still gets better, and their customer base increases, then we are all winners. If it backfires, they might be scrambling to get things fixed. Worst case scenario: MakeMusic goes belly-up.

Zuill


"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
 
Win 7 64bit, 2011b, 2012c, 2014d, 2014.5, 25.2
 
Favorite Forum quote: "Please, everybody, IGNORE THE TROLL!"

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Ebony Ivory
On Ebony And Ivory I'll Tinkle All Day Long



Email Address Not AvailablePersonal Homepage Not AvailableSend a Private Message to Ebony IvoryAIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined Dec 2005
Total Posts : 4594
 
   Posted 12/20/2016 7:20 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Adam W. said...
You've all been with us for a long time and you've come to expect a high level of service from our team including phone support. This is a big change in our support model and I can tell that there's some skepticism as to how well it can work. We're fully committed to continue offering the excellent level of support you're used to. All of that being said, I understand that talk is cheap so all I can ask is that you give us the chance to prove it.

Constructive feedback about our products makes them better, and we've opened a new centralized venue for those conversations to take place. Our new community is open for all of you to make any comments and conversation you'd like!

This simply stinks of patronising arrogance. "[We've] all been with us for a long time", YES, we HAVE. That's what pays for YOUR job, matey. Without US, there would be NO you. And this FORUM is where we talk to and help each other. YOUR users, YOUR income source.

So stop frigging pontificating, and LISTEN to the very people who PAY YOUR SALARY. Your USERS.

Brian


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Dan Kreider
Registered Member



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Date Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts : 88
 
   Posted 12/20/2016 12:59 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Bad move, MakeMusic. This will not help your loyal customer base.

Look, the reality is that - in the short term - very few of us will storm out in a huff, delete Finale, and dive into Dorico. We're all too deeply invested in Finale for that, some of us for decades. But these things happen over time. Dorico (for all its growing pains) is ascending. I want to see Finale ascend with it. This is a step in the opposite direction. The long-term effect will not be good.

What POSSIBLE reason could you have for closing this forum? Yes, I read the OP, and I'm still asking the question. Mike, Zulli, Motet, and scores of others can bring a diverse wealth of ideas and input that even the most competent tech team can't reproduce. Is this forum some sort of threat to MM??

I don't think you understand. This is more than just "solving tickets" (which is not being done very well at the moment, I might add). It's about a community of Finale users that each bring their ideas to the table, as well as their unique personalities. That's what a community is. If a company has produced such a community, they need to cultivate it.

You guys need to do yourselves a favor and watch the LEGO "Brickumentary." A couple years ago, LEGO was at a crossroads. Would they feel threatened by the growing community of users that were innovating, or would they embrace it? Thankfully, they chose the latter. Guess what? LEGO skyrocketed. Don't take the opposite path.

Come on. We all want to see Finale succeed!

-Dan


Finale 2014d on Windows 10
Editor at Grace Music

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HaraldS
Registered Member

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Date Joined Jan 1999
Total Posts : 310
 
   Posted 12/19/2016 7:07 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Adam W. said...
you've come to expect a high level of service from our team including phone support. This is a big change in our support model and I can tell that there's some skepticism as to how well it can work. We're fully committed to continue offering the excellent level of support you're used to.


Did I miss something, do you do support in this forum? So what has a change in the support model to do with closing this forum? If I want support, I would call the german dealer's hotline. Me and other non-US users aren't looking for support by MM here, but are happy to be a part of a powerful and knowledgeable community. Sadly, this seems to come to an end.

Harald


Finale 3.0-2014.5, german edition, Windows 7
mostly hardware synths/keys, Cubase 7 / trombonist, pianist, conductor / Recklinghausen, Germany

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Mike Rosen
himself



Email Address Not AvailableClick to visit Mike Rosen's website.Send a Private Message to Mike RosenAIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined Feb 2006
Total Posts : 14146
 
   Posted 12/19/2016 5:51 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Sorry, but I don't do Twitter. If my comments here don't reach the right people, the fault is theirs, not mine.



Mike Rosen
www.specialmillwork.com

Bass with Choir of the Sound www.choirofthesound.org
Volunteer copyist (The Gang of Twelve) for the Barbershop Harmony Society
FINALE TIPS at www.specialmillwork.com/finale-tips-and-tricks/index.html

Finale 2014.5 on El Capitan
Simple Entry, QWERTY keyboard, numberpad. That's my system, and I'm stickin' to it.

"As a musician, he's a damn fine woodworker."

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