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nordensten
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Date Joined Jul 2000
Total Posts : 419
 
   Posted 12/19/2016 6:14 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Fellow Finalists...: voicing your concerns on this forum has no impact... you should try Twitter!! Peaksware will be on the case immediately...


(Finale 1.0 (1988) -> v.25) using 2012c & v.25
Cubase 8.5 Pro & Reaper - Vienna Ensemble Pro - Ircam SPAT - Hauptwerk 4 - (Overture 5) - Dorico
Libraries: VSL, Spitfire, Orchestral Tools, Xsample, Embertone, Wallander, Pianoteq, Sample Modeling, EWQL +++
Garritan Steinway - Garritan CFX pianos
Multiple Windows computers W7/W8.1/i7/32GB

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Writer of Music
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Date Joined Aug 2011
Total Posts : 848
 
   Posted 12/19/2016 5:44 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Adam W. said...
You've all been with us for a long time and you've come to expect a high level of service …


Do you now understand how bitterly disappointed we then must be to not receive any service at all by ignoring every single syllable we utter?!?

But then again, I know you don't.


Finale 25.2
Mac OS X 10.11.6.

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Mike Rosen
himself



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Date Joined Feb 2006
Total Posts : 14146
 
   Posted 12/19/2016 4:33 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
We've done nothing but make comments. And you are flat out ignoring them.

How many times must you be told: THE NEW SYSTEM IS NO GOOD.



Mike Rosen
www.specialmillwork.com

Bass with Choir of the Sound www.choirofthesound.org
Volunteer copyist (The Gang of Twelve) for the Barbershop Harmony Society
FINALE TIPS at www.specialmillwork.com/finale-tips-and-tricks/index.html

Finale 2014.5 on El Capitan
Simple Entry, QWERTY keyboard, numberpad. That's my system, and I'm stickin' to it.

"As a musician, he's a damn fine woodworker."

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Michel R. E.
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Date Joined May 2003
Total Posts : 7430
 
   Posted 12/19/2016 3:43 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Adam W. said...
Constructive feedback about our products makes them better, and we've opened a new centralized venue for those conversations to take place. Our new community is open for all of you to make any comments and conversation you'd like!


what you seem to not be hearing, or are blatantly ignoring, is that your "new centralized venue" sucks as far as making things "better".
it's a far less efficient forum than this one, even with this one's deficiencies.

So since you've decided to go that route and ignore your user base, well, suffer the consequences.
Your new users won't have the support of long-time users as they do on this forum.
I've been using Finale since it first became available for Windows.
And I won't be switching to the "new improved" format you are ramming down our throats.

Whichever one of your employees suggested that this move would be a winner should be fired immediately, because he's an ID10T.
And before you get huffy and complain that I'm launching a personal attack on a MM employee, remember that YOU are ignoring your user base and treating us as though OUR support is not needed by you.
Remember, "your" forum depends on OUR input to make it work.
Treat us like dirt and you are going to get lots of dust trails as people migrate to other venues.
And people migrating to other venues also means considerably more exposure to alternate software, so in the long run that will translate to lost sales for MM.


Finale (started with ver. 3.0) using 2012 (2014 has been shelved for its lack of support for older Garritan libraries), putting Finale 25 through its paces.
Windows 8.1
basically ALL Garritan libraries, plus XSample Chamber Ensemble.

"Art critics suffer from Pigeon Syndrome. Pigeons like to leave their mark on monuments. But at the end of the day, the pigeon remains a pigeon, and the monument remains a monument."

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Motet
Isorhythmic



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Date Joined Dec 2002
Total Posts : 12849
 
   Posted 12/19/2016 3:40 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
As we've been saying, the software prevents us from making the kind of conversation we like. Have you taken any steps toward addressing that?


Finale 2014.5, 2011b, 2005, TGTools
Windows 7, 32-bit
MIDI input
Finale Transposition Chart

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Adam W.
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Date Joined Aug 2008
Total Posts : 54
 
   Posted 12/19/2016 3:32 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
You've all been with us for a long time and you've come to expect a high level of service from our team including phone support. This is a big change in our support model and I can tell that there's some skepticism as to how well it can work. We're fully committed to continue offering the excellent level of support you're used to. All of that being said, I understand that talk is cheap so all I can ask is that you give us the chance to prove it.

Constructive feedback about our products makes them better, and we've opened a new centralized venue for those conversations to take place. Our new community is open for all of you to make any comments and conversation you'd like!
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Bill Reed
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Date Joined Feb 2001
Total Posts : 1203
 
   Posted 12/18/2016 9:25 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
They don't want to know


Finale 25, Sibelius 8.4, Notion 6, Overture 5.1, Cubase 8.5
Win10 x64, 32GB RAM
Focusrite Scarlett 18i20
Kontakt, VSL, VE Pro, EWQL Orch, Choir and Pianos
August Forster 190

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Derrek
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Date Joined Dec 2009
Total Posts : 2347
 
   Posted 12/15/2016 1:53 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
It took me some doing to discover what some stars or scrolling icons meant in this software, and I'm not sure I could account for everything even now; but the BBS format is eminently usable.


Finale 2014.5, Finale 25.1 - Windows 7 (64-bit)
GPO 5, JABB 3, World Instruments
TG Tools Full, (Sonar Platinum, Dorico)

“Outside of a dog, a book is a man’s best friend. Inside of a dog it’s too dark to read.” — Groucho Marx

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Motet
Isorhythmic



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Date Joined Dec 2002
Total Posts : 12849
 
   Posted 12/15/2016 1:15 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Ah, the tiny orange page icon! OK, thanks. I don't think I would have figured that out, but perhaps I need to RTFM.


Finale 2014.5, 2011b, 2005, TGTools
Windows 7, 32-bit
MIDI input
Finale Transposition Chart

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Derrek
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Total Posts : 2347
 
   Posted 12/15/2016 12:54 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Motet said...
If there's a way to see only the new postings in a thread, I can't figure it out. I saw your name there, so if you know, please tell me.

As in the diagram of a couple of entries from the Dorico Forum:


  • Threads are listed in order of activity, most recent at the top (except for stickies).
  • Unread mssgs have a red icon on the left, and clicking the orange page icon beside the subject line will take you to the unread posts in the thread.
  • Read posts have a blue circular icon on the left.
  • The date and author of the original post are beneath the subject line.
  • After the Replies and Views columns, the name and date/timestamp of the most recent poster is in the right column.
  • Signature files allow users to list the software and OS they use.

That's the kind of info and navigation help we need from the new Finale forum so that users can navigate easily and avoid wasting time, which discourages use of the forum especially by those interested in helping others.


Finale 2014.5, Finale 25.1 - Windows 7 (64-bit)
GPO 5, JABB 3, World Instruments
TG Tools Full, (Sonar Platinum, Dorico)

“Outside of a dog, a book is a man’s best friend. Inside of a dog it’s too dark to read.” — Groucho Marx

Post Edited (Derrek) : 12/15/2016 10:57:00 AM (GMT-6)


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Zuill
"The Troll"



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Total Posts : 29077
 
   Posted 12/15/2016 11:38 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I'll bet they're closing this forum because of all the talk about Dorico. Maybe they think Dorico will go away if Finale users don't hear about it here.

Zuill


"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
 
Win 7 64bit, 2011b, 2012c, 2014d, 2014.5, 25.2
 
Favorite Forum quote: "Please, everybody, IGNORE THE TROLL!"

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Ron.
Composer



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Date Joined Mar 2003
Total Posts : 8828
 
   Posted 12/15/2016 11:27 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Let's not exaggerate the effect of killing this forum and telephone support. It will not mean the death of Finale. They will just brush that off as an over-reaction. However, it will seriously harm MM's reputation and eviscerate a very attractive feature of Finale--this forum and the rapid 24x7 response to customer problems and concerns--that costs MM nothing.


Finale 25.2

GPO5, JaBB3, GIO, COMB2, GWI, GIFF, Steinway Basic.

Windows 7; 10 GB RAM.

www.composeforums.com

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BvdPress
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   Posted 12/15/2016 10:18 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Adam -

Just so I am clear, as I recomend Finale a lot and mention both the phone support and this forum as a serious positive, both the phone support and this forum will be axed beginning in 2017?

As a LONG time supporter of Finale and a person that is overly critical of the product with the sole goal of getting a better product, I would ask MakeMusic to reconsider what they are doing. If the goal is drive support away for the product, GOAL ACHIEVED! And very loud and clear. Basically the customers and the base do not matter one iota to MakeMusic.

With other viable options out there, Finale had a really good thing going here (mostly because of the loyal users) and via phone support. I concur with Brian on the Death of Finale.

Ugh...


Bryan Doughty
BVD Press, Music Express, BrassWorks4, Timber Ridge Music,
Kiwi Press, Serendipity Press and Cimarron Music Press
[email protected]
http://www.cimarronmusic.com/

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Ebony Ivory
On Ebony And Ivory I'll Tinkle All Day Long



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Date Joined Dec 2005
Total Posts : 4594
 
   Posted 12/15/2016 5:31 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
This is an unbelievably dumb plan. This forum is one of the main reasons some of us still use Finale amidst the many other, considerably more modern musical notation programs out there. Finale is complicated, confusing, lacks self-consistency - but we all know that within minutes of having an apparently dead-end problem, if we post it here, one of our fellow Finale users will provide the solution.

Facebook, Twitter and other social media lack the focus that this forum provides. Your amazing customer base, surely your greatest asset, will disperse, and your shareholders will hold you responsible.

Locking this forum will be the Death of Finale.

Brian


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Zuill
"The Troll"



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Total Posts : 29077
 
   Posted 12/15/2016 12:56 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
So, if there is no phone support, and the new forum moves slowly regarding official response, and the standard support approach doesn't work on weekends and takes over 24 hours to get the first response, and 24 hours between responses, I think we've got trouble with a Capital T.

Zuill


"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
 
Win 7 64bit, 2011b, 2012c, 2014d, 2014.5, 25.2
 
Favorite Forum quote: "Please, everybody, IGNORE THE TROLL!"

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Motet
Isorhythmic



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Total Posts : 12849
 
   Posted 12/15/2016 12:04 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
This is probably not the place to discuss this, but you click one of those, you get a list of topics with unread or new posts, right? Then, for each topic, you can either read the whole thing, or jump to the last posting. (If it's long enough, it's broken into pages, and you can go to a page.) But there's nothing to take you to the first unread post. Or am I missing something?

Here, you can click the icon in the "last seen" column.


Finale 2014.5, 2011b, 2005, TGTools
Windows 7, 32-bit
MIDI input
Finale Transposition Chart

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Ron.
Composer



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Date Joined Mar 2003
Total Posts : 8828
 
   Posted 12/14/2016 11:08 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Motet: Is this what you are talking about?


Finale 25.2

GPO5, JaBB3, GIO, COMB2, GWI, GIFF, Steinway Basic.

Windows 7; 10 GB RAM.

www.composeforums.com


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Motet
Isorhythmic



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Date Joined Dec 2002
Total Posts : 12849
 
   Posted 12/14/2016 9:11 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Derrek said...
Motet said...
HaraldS said...
...the Dorico and Notat.io forums rely on phpBB and work flawlessly...

If it's the same version of phpBB that finaleforum.com uses, I wouldn't say flawlessly.

It's easy enough to see what the Dorico Forum offers without guessing or making assumptions:...

A sentence that starts with "If" is not making assumptions, but I registered there and looked. If there's a way to see only the new postings in a thread, I can't figure it out. I saw your name there, so if you know, please tell me.

It's perhaps not a deal-killer, but it's definitely a flaw.


Finale 2014.5, 2011b, 2005, TGTools
Windows 7, 32-bit
MIDI input
Finale Transposition Chart

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Michel R. E.
Registered Member



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Date Joined May 2003
Total Posts : 7430
 
   Posted 12/14/2016 8:59 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I got a response to an issue question, it took a few days... and it was the wrong answer.


Finale (started with ver. 3.0) using 2012 (2014 has been shelved for its lack of support for older Garritan libraries), putting Finale 25 through its paces.
Windows 8.1
basically ALL Garritan libraries, plus XSample Chamber Ensemble.

"Art critics suffer from Pigeon Syndrome. Pigeons like to leave their mark on monuments. But at the end of the day, the pigeon remains a pigeon, and the monument remains a monument."

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Ron.
Composer



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Date Joined Mar 2003
Total Posts : 8828
 
   Posted 12/14/2016 8:47 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
They are getting rid of phone support in order to focus on improving their online response time. I tried out the new help forum when they first announced it and did not see a single MM employee respond to any requests for weeks before I gave up.


Finale 25.2

GPO5, JaBB3, GIO, COMB2, GWI, GIFF, Steinway Basic.

Windows 7; 10 GB RAM.

www.composeforums.com

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ttw
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Total Posts : 776
 
   Posted 12/14/2016 8:43 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
The problem with online support is that I often need support (not just with Finale) when there is no line to be on.

Other sites that use Facebook are essentially useless. The Facebook site of every company that I've tried to use would never display properly on any of my computers. The only thing these companies had in common was the use of Facebook for support.

Essentially, MM is saying that (at least for me), there will be no support.


Finale 2014.5, 25
GWI, GPO4, GPO5, JABB 3, Steinway Basic, COMB2

Windows 10 Pro HP Envy Desktop
Windows 10 Home HP Portable

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Zuill
"The Troll"



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Total Posts : 29077
 
   Posted 12/14/2016 7:57 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Possibly they too moved to Boulder, CO.

Zuill


"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
 
Win 7 64bit, 2011b, 2012c, 2014d, 2014.5, 25.2
 
Favorite Forum quote: "Please, everybody, IGNORE THE TROLL!"

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Derrek
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Date Joined Dec 2009
Total Posts : 2347
 
   Posted 12/14/2016 7:00 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Adam W. said...
We're refocusing on an improved online support experience and will be offering Finale support exclusively online beginning in the new year. ....

Adam, This sounds too much like a once popular national Chicken restaurant franchise near a friends house some years ago that put a sign in their window "We're moving to serve you better."
The restaurant moved out of the neighborhood: today I couldn't even find their name in a list of restaurants.


Finale 2014.5, Finale 25.1 - Windows 7 (64-bit)
GPO 5, JABB 3, World Instruments
TG Tools Full, (Sonar Platinum, Dorico)

“Outside of a dog, a book is a man’s best friend. Inside of a dog it’s too dark to read.” — Groucho Marx

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Derrek
Registered Member

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Date Joined Dec 2009
Total Posts : 2347
 
   Posted 12/14/2016 6:50 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Motet said...
HaraldS said...
...the Dorico and Notat.io forums rely on phpBB and work flawlessly...

If it's the same version of phpBB that finaleforum.com uses, I wouldn't say flawlessly.

It's easy enough to see what the Dorico Forum offers without guessing or making assumptions:

/www.steinberg.net/forums/viewforum.php?f=246&sid=155ecd8f322512a784565174aa011756&etcc_rid=1RIV4Y9M-RWJUJN&etcc_mid=129170224529&etcc_med=NLR&etcc_cmp=Program&etcc_ctv=AP%20Dorico%20Announcement%202&etcc_var=129170224529&pad=Dorico&rgn=US-EU-RoW&lan=EN


Finale 2014.5, Finale 25.1 - Windows 7 (64-bit)
GPO 5, JABB 3, World Instruments
TG Tools Full, (Sonar Platinum, Dorico)

“Outside of a dog, a book is a man’s best friend. Inside of a dog it’s too dark to read.” — Groucho Marx

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Adam W.
Registered Member



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Date Joined Aug 2008
Total Posts : 54
 
   Posted 12/14/2016 4:56 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
To speak to Ron's comment - We're refocusing on an improved online support experience and will be offering Finale support exclusively online beginning in the new year. The ultimate goal in making this change is to be able to offer faster turnaround times and to provide appropriate, prioritized responses based on the nature of the issue. Urgent issues like product authorization, crashing etc. are showstoppers and require immediate attention. Identifying these problems quickly via our online tools means that you get priority responses when your product isn't working like it should.

Of course, there are always going to be complex issues that can be better addressed via the phone or even a remote session. We'll be able to leverage those options as needed so that we can maintain efficiency and accuracy across the board.
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