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| MakeMusic Forum > Public Forums > Finale - Windows - FORUM HAS MOVED! > Change in Forum Location | Forum Quick Jump
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Zuill
"The Troll"
      
Date Joined Oct 2003
Total Posts : 29077
| Posted 12/7/2016 11:26 PM (GMT -6) |   | | The scan app reversal was that they said they would have it, then they abruptly removed it. That is a reversal.
And, we might as well fold. It appears that things are set in stone. Interesting business paradigm, but the one chosen, nonetheless.
Zuill
"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
Win 7 64bit, 2011b, 2012c, 2014d, 2014.5, 25.1
Favorite Forum quote: "Please, everybody, IGNORE THE TROLL!" | | Back to Top | |
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Michel R. E.
Registered Member
Date Joined May 2003
Total Posts : 7430
| Posted 12/7/2016 7:24 PM (GMT -6) | | Writer of Music said...Michael Johnson said...
A group of us at MakeMusic thought long and hard about the best way to serve our users. Either the group was too small, or you didn't think long and hard enough. Because closing this forum couldn't be farthest from 'serving' your customers. <snip> 'Change and adapt' may well be your company motto, but why do you enforce that on your customer — you'll remember: the one who buys your stuff and thus puts bread on your table. Shouldn't you adapt and change when your customer demands that from you? But no, instead you force the customer to adapt and change.
The forum is a MAJOR selling point, because gathered in a single place are people of vast experience as engravers, teachers, composers, and musicians.
If MM forces all of these people to "change and adapt" I can easily see many of them changing and adapting to some other software which appears to offer considerably more RESPECT for its clientele and a vested interest in amassing the best and brightest around its product.
Upgrade the forum, sure. it's way past due.
But the "new forum" MM is offering us is pure shi*. it has 0 functionality, and is missing just about every attribute that makes this forum so valuable.
A MM employee even had the nerve to respond here saying that the new forum could do all the same things... more or less... except for a few exceptions... which includes pretty much everything that the user base requires of a Finale forum. In other words, with a few weasel words a MM employee admitted that the new forum is pointless and useless.
As was wisely said: MakeMusic, you may be "hearing", but you are NOT "listening".
Finale (started with ver. 3.0) using 2012 (2014 has been shelved for its lack of support for older Garritan libraries), putting Finale 25 through its paces.
Windows 8.1
basically ALL Garritan libraries, plus XSample Chamber Ensemble.
"Art critics suffer from Pigeon Syndrome. Pigeons like to leave their mark on monuments. But at the end of the day, the pigeon remains a pigeon, and the monument remains a monument." | | Back to Top | |
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Ralph L. Bowers Jr.
Polymathist
Date Joined May 2012
Total Posts : 883
| Posted 12/7/2016 1:18 PM (GMT -6) | | Well I guess most here are at the point where we will leave these forums behind, MM's attempt at further control is a failure but they are to blind to see. Maybe somewhat related to the current election in the US..... those insulated from what the common electorate (user base) needed or even wanted. Insulated with their corporate speak and hive mind, and failing to even ask themselves whether at this time with features that are needed but lacking with Zendesk that they should put off the change until those issues are rectified.
Finale 2010b, 2011b, 2012c, 2014d, 2014.5, Version 25.1; TGTools Pro, Patterson plugins, JW plugins (current for each Finale Instalation)
Sibelius 6.2, 7.1.3, 7.5.1, 8.5.0, Write Score Sound Sets, TMT Publisher Bundle Plugins, Bob Zawalich plugins, Dolet 6.6
Print Music 2004, 2010a, 2011a, 2014a
Progression, Progression 2, Progression 3, Notion 4, Notion 5 (Notion 5 not really any better than 4, [Notion 6 (bought but not installed)]
Pro Tools 9.5, Reaper
Kontakt 5
GPO4, GPO5, World Instruments
SmartScore X Pro, SmartScore X2 Pro, PhotoScore Ultimate 6 & 7 & 8.04 ( 7 has some utility----best of those available, 8 has some issues that need fixing)
M-Audio "Oxygen 25" Midi input keyboard (recent addition 2014)
Systems (5) // Windows XP Pro (32bit), [email protected] Windows 7 Pro, 8.1 Pro, Windows 10 64 bit, 4GB - 16GB RAM
Paper & Pencil
BMus, MM (Musicology) | | Back to Top | |
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Writer of Music
Registered Member
Date Joined Aug 2011
Total Posts : 848
| Posted 12/7/2016 11:06 AM (GMT -6) | | Michael Johnson said...
A group of us at MakeMusic thought long and hard about the best way to serve our users.
Either the group was too small, or you didn't think long and hard enough. Because closing this forum couldn't be farthest from 'serving' your customers.
Keeping this forum open but deactivated is of very little use, because it is an ordeal to search this forum as it is and therefor hardly a 'resource' of answers of any value whatsoever.
The point is not the loss of a 'sense of community', but of a resource of knowledge and experience that MakeMusic never has and never will be able to provide. As helpful and probably knowledgeable your help centre may be, they cannot and never will match the knowledge, experience, success in help and helpfulness of a number of long time users, copyists, musicologists, musicians, composers as is gathered here.
'Change and adapt' may well be your company motto, but why do you enforce that on your customer — you'll remember: the one who buys your stuff and thus puts bread on your table. Shouldn't you adapt and change when your customer demands that from you? But no, instead you force the customer to adapt and change.
And last but by no means least: please don't say that you listen when you should say that you hear. To listen suggests that you do something with what you hear. Do you? No, your path was set and regardless of what you hear, your path remains unchanged.
In short, nice speech, mr. Johnson, but your quasi empathic words did not earn you a cigar.
Finale 25.
Mac OS X 10.11.6. | | Back to Top | |
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Motet
Isorhythmic
Date Joined Dec 2002
Total Posts : 12849
| Posted 12/6/2016 7:24 PM (GMT -6) | | | |
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Michael Johnson
Registered Member
Date Joined Mar 2004
Total Posts : 1317
| Posted 12/6/2016 7:19 PM (GMT -6) | | Greetings all:
Thank you for sharing your concerns with us. I wanted to chime in with my thoughts. A group of us at MakeMusic thought long and hard about the best way to serve our users. I appreciate your concerns that the ZenDesk Community is not this forum. As Adam noted, we will make as many changes to Community as quickly as possible and we will advocate to Zendesk to enhance their tool set. I also want to affirm that we are only locking this forum, we are not removing accessibility. The rich set of answers and discussion will remain as a resource.
I also appreciate many of you, myself included, coming to these forums for a sense of community about all things Finale. While only time will tell, I can assure you we are committed to fostering that same sense of community in the "Community" portal. I realize these are empty words but I sincerely look forward to you joining me in our new Help Center Community.
Change and Adapt. This has become a motto of our company as we became part of Peaksware. When I started at MakeMusic in 1996, the only forums available were from AOL and Compuserve. Shortly thereafter it was determined that we would no longer support those services. I recall a rather large outcry, similar to this, of the AOL and Compuserve communities at the time. But change and adapt we did. Of course, there was no Facebook, or Yahoo, or Google, or Twitter, or ZenDesk and our documentation was 3 purple books back then. So, we provided as best we could a neutral forum, this forum. Times have changed and as difficult as it is for all of us, we need to change and adapt.
I agree that the Finale community is a great asset and, in this day and age when you have so many choices to pick your notation toolset, the fact that you continue to use Finale is both humbling and inspiring. We all want Finale to be better and change quicker and have every feature all of you have dreamed up. Maybe someday it will, in the meantime, we will keep making small changes, releasing updates with bug fixes, and implementing new features: allowing Finale to become better, faster, and easier to use. It is absolutely your free market right to choose whether to participate. Thank you for doing so.
Thank you for your time, your energy, your feedback (yes! we listen), your ideas, and most of all your musicianship. For in the end, we all want to Make Music. "Here's hoping that Finale enhances your musical productivity and creativity in ways you've never imagined possible."
Sincerely,
Michael Johnson
Vice President, Professional Notation
Michael Johnson
MacBook Pro
10.11
2.6 GHz Intel Core i7
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Zuill
"The Troll"
Date Joined Oct 2003
Total Posts : 29077
| Posted 12/6/2016 4:45 PM (GMT -6) | | I forgot another question: if a user on the new forum is banned for whatever reason, is the method used deleting the user account? If so, how would a user have access to the paid for products and support? Just wondering.
Zuill
"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
Win 7 64bit, 2011b, 2012c, 2014d, 2014.5, 25.1
Favorite Forum quote: "Please, everybody, IGNORE THE TROLL!" | | Back to Top | |
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Zuill
"The Troll"
Date Joined Oct 2003
Total Posts : 29077
| Posted 12/6/2016 4:43 PM (GMT -6) | | It's interesting that Finale has an option to "improve" the program by giving feedback directly. If the result we are getting here is completely trashing a viable and valuable exchange of Finale information, regardless of our feedback, why should we go through the hoops of sending feedback via the program? Is that too just for appearance sake, with the knowledge that things will be done with total disregard for user experience? I'm baffled. Maybe I need a logical explanation.
Zuill
"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
Win 7 64bit, 2011b, 2012c, 2014d, 2014.5, 25.1
Favorite Forum quote: "Please, everybody, IGNORE THE TROLL!" | | Back to Top | |
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Mike Rosen
himself
Date Joined Feb 2006
Total Posts : 14146
| Posted 12/6/2016 4:20 PM (GMT -6) | | | |
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Adam W.
Registered Member
Date Joined Aug 2008
Total Posts : 54
| Posted 12/6/2016 4:17 PM (GMT -6) | | Hi Everyone,
Some of the functionality requests mentioned previously do exist in the new platform, so I'll take a moment to outline those features:
- Ability to add/edit a user profile: While the capability is not as robust, there is a 'Description' field that can be edited to include any personal information you'd like. This can be accomplished by navigating to 'My Profile': http://www.screencast.com/t/8QNZ6rWiC and then selecting 'Edit Profile'. You'll see your description information listed beneath your name: http://screencast.com/t/dhQifiyf0a
- Easily spot your own contributions: You'll find a list of your contributions (public community posts) and any previous support tickets listed in the 'My Profile' section.
- Searching on a poster's name: While you can't do a direct search for a posters name, we'll be enabling the ability to view another user's profile. This will include the ability to see their previous public posts and even subscribe to be notified wen they've made a new post.
- Getting a newly updated thread back to the top of the list in order to maintain relevancy: While the new platform doesn't explicitly do this, we will be enabling the ability to follow a specific thread so that you can be notified when an update is made.
I recognize that there are many other specific pieces of functionality not listed above that are important to this group. While the new community doesn't currently offer each feature requested so far, it's my goal to continually improve the interface to make it a worthwhile tool for you. Realistically, a portion of that progress is dependent upon feature development by ZenDesk itself and we'll continue to push them to widen the breadth of their options as well. | | Back to Top | |
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Zuill
"The Troll"
Date Joined Oct 2003
Total Posts : 29077
| Posted 12/6/2016 10:07 AM (GMT -6) | | Regarding senior management, remember what happened with the Scanning feature (now removed). It took only one complaint to reverse that decision, after a blog post touting it, and now it is gone.
Zuill
"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
Win 7 64bit, 2011b, 2012c, 2014d, 2014.5, 25.1
Favorite Forum quote: "Please, everybody, IGNORE THE TROLL!" | | Back to Top | |
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Nowikjoh
Registered Member
Date Joined Mar 2000
Total Posts : 51
| Posted 12/6/2016 9:45 AM (GMT -6) | | Although I am not a frequent contributor, commentator - I come to this forum frequently to find quick answers to a problem I am having.
Usually, I find it - although the Search Engine function has become useless for Posts past 6 months. I am glad I have saved URL links to posts from previous years. The people on these forums, with their knowledge, have been invaluable and have made FINALE'S inner worth far greater than its price.
I have tried to use the new MM forum site and found it to be lacking in ANYTHING I was looking for.
Disappointed come January 2017.
John, NJ
Home: Finale 2008, Finale 2009, GPO, Kontackt Player 2.0
Dell XPS laptop, Windows XP, service pack 3
Pentium 4 / 3.4 Ghz
2.00 GB RAM
and at school:
Finale 2008, Finale2011
Lenovo ThinkCentre M58, Windows 7 Enterprise, 32-bit
Intel Core 2 Duo CPU, 3.16ghz
4.00 GB RAM
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SysExJohn
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 2014
Total Posts : 57
| Posted 12/6/2016 4:50 AM (GMT -6) | | It's possible that we are all thinking incorrectly here! 
This is clearly a decision made by MM management.
The addition of the names of senior signatories to the announcement would indicate this.
"HOW DARE YOU QUESTION THE DECISIONS OF SENIOR MANAGEMENT?
Don't you know it's always for the best.
We always know better than you do.
It is our jobs that are important, and our advancement and salaries and bonuses, not your silly software and your stupid user groups.
Thinks: (How pathetic are you?)
If it doesn't work we'll just move on.
You can please yourselves what you do, as long as we're okay.
So, just pull yourselves together and commit to the decisions we have made in our, excuse me, your best interests."
Almost a direct quotation from ICL senior management in the past.
The decision has been made.
Senior management, in my experience, will rarely reverse such a decision.
It would call into question their ability to manage.
Heaven forfend that they would admit to a mistake.
Deeply cynical? Me?
John Garside.
at MIDI-tutor.proboards.com
Finale 2012c, Sonar 7 PE, XGworks.
Garritan GPO4, JABB, COMB, IO, Organs, Steinway, Harps + GPO5.
E-MU 1616m PCI and Cardbus x 2.
Yamaha AN1x. | | Back to Top | |
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Ron.
Composer
Date Joined Mar 2003
Total Posts : 8828
| Posted 12/5/2016 10:45 PM (GMT -6) | | I have had to refer users to the support forums, complete with URLs, more times than I can count. People can't find them on their own, or don't know what to look for. Without we users referring novices to the right places, they will just give up.
Finale 25.1
GPO5, JaBB3, GIO, COMB2, GWI, GIFF, Steinway Basic.
Windows 7; 10 GB RAM.
www.composeforums.com | | Back to Top | |
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