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MakeMusic Forum > Public Forums > Finale - Windows - FORUM HAS MOVED! > Change in Forum Location  Forum Quick Jump
 
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Derrek
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Date Joined Dec 2009
Total Posts : 2347
 
   Posted 12/15/2016 12:54 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Motet said...
If there's a way to see only the new postings in a thread, I can't figure it out. I saw your name there, so if you know, please tell me.

As in the diagram of a couple of entries from the Dorico Forum:


  • Threads are listed in order of activity, most recent at the top (except for stickies).
  • Unread mssgs have a red icon on the left, and clicking the orange page icon beside the subject line will take you to the unread posts in the thread.
  • Read posts have a blue circular icon on the left.
  • The date and author of the original post are beneath the subject line.
  • After the Replies and Views columns, the name and date/timestamp of the most recent poster is in the right column.
  • Signature files allow users to list the software and OS they use.

That's the kind of info and navigation help we need from the new Finale forum so that users can navigate easily and avoid wasting time, which discourages use of the forum especially by those interested in helping others.


Finale 2014.5, Finale 25.1 - Windows 7 (64-bit)
GPO 5, JABB 3, World Instruments
TG Tools Full, (Sonar Platinum, Dorico)

“Outside of a dog, a book is a man’s best friend. Inside of a dog it’s too dark to read.” — Groucho Marx

Post Edited (Derrek) : 12/15/2016 10:57:00 AM (GMT-6)


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Motet
Isorhythmic



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Date Joined Dec 2002
Total Posts : 12849
 
   Posted 12/15/2016 1:15 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Ah, the tiny orange page icon! OK, thanks. I don't think I would have figured that out, but perhaps I need to RTFM.


Finale 2014.5, 2011b, 2005, TGTools
Windows 7, 32-bit
MIDI input
Finale Transposition Chart

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Derrek
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Date Joined Dec 2009
Total Posts : 2347
 
   Posted 12/15/2016 1:53 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
It took me some doing to discover what some stars or scrolling icons meant in this software, and I'm not sure I could account for everything even now; but the BBS format is eminently usable.


Finale 2014.5, Finale 25.1 - Windows 7 (64-bit)
GPO 5, JABB 3, World Instruments
TG Tools Full, (Sonar Platinum, Dorico)

“Outside of a dog, a book is a man’s best friend. Inside of a dog it’s too dark to read.” — Groucho Marx

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Bill Reed
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Date Joined Feb 2001
Total Posts : 1203
 
   Posted 12/18/2016 9:25 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
They don't want to know


Finale 25, Sibelius 8.4, Notion 6, Overture 5.1, Cubase 8.5
Win10 x64, 32GB RAM
Focusrite Scarlett 18i20
Kontakt, VSL, VE Pro, EWQL Orch, Choir and Pianos
August Forster 190

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Adam W.
Forum Moderator



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Date Joined Aug 2008
Total Posts : 54
 
   Posted 12/19/2016 3:32 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
You've all been with us for a long time and you've come to expect a high level of service from our team including phone support. This is a big change in our support model and I can tell that there's some skepticism as to how well it can work. We're fully committed to continue offering the excellent level of support you're used to. All of that being said, I understand that talk is cheap so all I can ask is that you give us the chance to prove it.

Constructive feedback about our products makes them better, and we've opened a new centralized venue for those conversations to take place. Our new community is open for all of you to make any comments and conversation you'd like!
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Motet
Isorhythmic



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Date Joined Dec 2002
Total Posts : 12849
 
   Posted 12/19/2016 3:40 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
As we've been saying, the software prevents us from making the kind of conversation we like. Have you taken any steps toward addressing that?


Finale 2014.5, 2011b, 2005, TGTools
Windows 7, 32-bit
MIDI input
Finale Transposition Chart

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Michel R. E.
Registered Member



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Date Joined May 2003
Total Posts : 7430
 
   Posted 12/19/2016 3:43 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Adam W. said...
Constructive feedback about our products makes them better, and we've opened a new centralized venue for those conversations to take place. Our new community is open for all of you to make any comments and conversation you'd like!


what you seem to not be hearing, or are blatantly ignoring, is that your "new centralized venue" sucks as far as making things "better".
it's a far less efficient forum than this one, even with this one's deficiencies.

So since you've decided to go that route and ignore your user base, well, suffer the consequences.
Your new users won't have the support of long-time users as they do on this forum.
I've been using Finale since it first became available for Windows.
And I won't be switching to the "new improved" format you are ramming down our throats.

Whichever one of your employees suggested that this move would be a winner should be fired immediately, because he's an ID10T.
And before you get huffy and complain that I'm launching a personal attack on a MM employee, remember that YOU are ignoring your user base and treating us as though OUR support is not needed by you.
Remember, "your" forum depends on OUR input to make it work.
Treat us like dirt and you are going to get lots of dust trails as people migrate to other venues.
And people migrating to other venues also means considerably more exposure to alternate software, so in the long run that will translate to lost sales for MM.


Finale (started with ver. 3.0) using 2012 (2014 has been shelved for its lack of support for older Garritan libraries), putting Finale 25 through its paces.
Windows 8.1
basically ALL Garritan libraries, plus XSample Chamber Ensemble.

"Art critics suffer from Pigeon Syndrome. Pigeons like to leave their mark on monuments. But at the end of the day, the pigeon remains a pigeon, and the monument remains a monument."

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Mike Rosen
himself



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Date Joined Feb 2006
Total Posts : 14146
 
   Posted 12/19/2016 4:33 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
We've done nothing but make comments. And you are flat out ignoring them.

How many times must you be told: THE NEW SYSTEM IS NO GOOD.



Mike Rosen
www.specialmillwork.com

Bass with Choir of the Sound www.choirofthesound.org
Volunteer copyist (The Gang of Twelve) for the Barbershop Harmony Society
FINALE TIPS at www.specialmillwork.com/finale-tips-and-tricks/index.html

Finale 2014.5 on El Capitan
Simple Entry, QWERTY keyboard, numberpad. That's my system, and I'm stickin' to it.

"As a musician, he's a damn fine woodworker."

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Writer of Music
Registered Member



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Total Posts : 848
 
   Posted 12/19/2016 5:44 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Adam W. said...
You've all been with us for a long time and you've come to expect a high level of service …


Do you now understand how bitterly disappointed we then must be to not receive any service at all by ignoring every single syllable we utter?!?

But then again, I know you don't.


Finale 25.2
Mac OS X 10.11.6.

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nordensten
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Total Posts : 419
 
   Posted 12/19/2016 6:14 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Fellow Finalists...: voicing your concerns on this forum has no impact... you should try Twitter!! Peaksware will be on the case immediately...


(Finale 1.0 (1988) -> v.25) using 2012c & v.25
Cubase 8.5 Pro & Reaper - Vienna Ensemble Pro - Ircam SPAT - Hauptwerk 4 - (Overture 5) - Dorico
Libraries: VSL, Spitfire, Orchestral Tools, Xsample, Embertone, Wallander, Pianoteq, Sample Modeling, EWQL +++
Garritan Steinway - Garritan CFX pianos
Multiple Windows computers W7/W8.1/i7/32GB

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Mike Rosen
himself



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Date Joined Feb 2006
Total Posts : 14146
 
   Posted 12/19/2016 6:51 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Sorry, but I don't do Twitter. If my comments here don't reach the right people, the fault is theirs, not mine.



Mike Rosen
www.specialmillwork.com

Bass with Choir of the Sound www.choirofthesound.org
Volunteer copyist (The Gang of Twelve) for the Barbershop Harmony Society
FINALE TIPS at www.specialmillwork.com/finale-tips-and-tricks/index.html

Finale 2014.5 on El Capitan
Simple Entry, QWERTY keyboard, numberpad. That's my system, and I'm stickin' to it.

"As a musician, he's a damn fine woodworker."

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HaraldS
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Total Posts : 310
 
   Posted 12/19/2016 8:07 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Adam W. said...
you've come to expect a high level of service from our team including phone support. This is a big change in our support model and I can tell that there's some skepticism as to how well it can work. We're fully committed to continue offering the excellent level of support you're used to.


Did I miss something, do you do support in this forum? So what has a change in the support model to do with closing this forum? If I want support, I would call the german dealer's hotline. Me and other non-US users aren't looking for support by MM here, but are happy to be a part of a powerful and knowledgeable community. Sadly, this seems to come to an end.

Harald


Finale 3.0-2014.5, german edition, Windows 7
mostly hardware synths/keys, Cubase 7 / trombonist, pianist, conductor / Recklinghausen, Germany

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Dan Kreider
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Date Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts : 88
 
   Posted 12/20/2016 1:59 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Bad move, MakeMusic. This will not help your loyal customer base.

Look, the reality is that - in the short term - very few of us will storm out in a huff, delete Finale, and dive into Dorico. We're all too deeply invested in Finale for that, some of us for decades. But these things happen over time. Dorico (for all its growing pains) is ascending. I want to see Finale ascend with it. This is a step in the opposite direction. The long-term effect will not be good.

What POSSIBLE reason could you have for closing this forum? Yes, I read the OP, and I'm still asking the question. Mike, Zulli, Motet, and scores of others can bring a diverse wealth of ideas and input that even the most competent tech team can't reproduce. Is this forum some sort of threat to MM??

I don't think you understand. This is more than just "solving tickets" (which is not being done very well at the moment, I might add). It's about a community of Finale users that each bring their ideas to the table, as well as their unique personalities. That's what a community is. If a company has produced such a community, they need to cultivate it.

You guys need to do yourselves a favor and watch the LEGO "Brickumentary." A couple years ago, LEGO was at a crossroads. Would they feel threatened by the growing community of users that were innovating, or would they embrace it? Thankfully, they chose the latter. Guess what? LEGO skyrocketed. Don't take the opposite path.

Come on. We all want to see Finale succeed!

-Dan


Finale 2014d on Windows 10
Editor at Grace Music

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Ebony Ivory
On Ebony And Ivory I'll Tinkle All Day Long



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Date Joined Dec 2005
Total Posts : 4594
 
   Posted 12/20/2016 8:20 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Adam W. said...
You've all been with us for a long time and you've come to expect a high level of service from our team including phone support. This is a big change in our support model and I can tell that there's some skepticism as to how well it can work. We're fully committed to continue offering the excellent level of support you're used to. All of that being said, I understand that talk is cheap so all I can ask is that you give us the chance to prove it.

Constructive feedback about our products makes them better, and we've opened a new centralized venue for those conversations to take place. Our new community is open for all of you to make any comments and conversation you'd like!

This simply stinks of patronising arrogance. "[We've] all been with us for a long time", YES, we HAVE. That's what pays for YOUR job, matey. Without US, there would be NO you. And this FORUM is where we talk to and help each other. YOUR users, YOUR income source.

So stop frigging pontificating, and LISTEN to the very people who PAY YOUR SALARY. Your USERS.

Brian


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Zuill
"The Troll"



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Total Posts : 29077
 
   Posted 12/20/2016 9:22 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
The way I look at it is: if they make the changes and the product still gets better, and their customer base increases, then we are all winners. If it backfires, they might be scrambling to get things fixed. Worst case scenario: MakeMusic goes belly-up.

Zuill


"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
 
Win 7 64bit, 2011b, 2012c, 2014d, 2014.5, 25.2
 
Favorite Forum quote: "Please, everybody, IGNORE THE TROLL!"

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ttw
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Total Posts : 776
 
   Posted 12/20/2016 11:04 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Well, I really liked Encore which is supposedly being refurbished. I survived so I'll survive after Finale.


Finale 2014.5, 25
GWI, GPO4, GPO5, JABB 3, Steinway Basic, COMB2

Windows 10 Pro HP Envy Desktop
Windows 10 Home HP Portable

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Ralph L. Bowers Jr.
Polymathist



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Date Joined May 2012
Total Posts : 883
 
   Posted 12/20/2016 11:23 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Zuill said...
The way I look at it is: if they make the changes and the product still gets better, and their customer base increases, then we are all winners. If it backfires, they might be scrambling to get things fixed. Worst case scenario: MakeMusic goes belly-up.

Zuill


And, maybe a few that sold the company on this new pigs ear ends up getting fired. It's happened in the past.


Finale 2010b, 2011b, 2012c, 2014d, 2014.5, Version 25.2; TGTools Pro, Patterson plugins, JW plugins (current for each Finale Instalation)
Sibelius 6.2, 7.1.3, 7.5.1, 8.5.0, Write Score Sound Sets, TMT Publisher Bundle Plugins, Bob Zawalich plugins, Dolet 6.6
Print Music 2004, 2010a, 2011a, 2014a
Progression, Progression 2, Progression 3, Notion 4, Notion 5 (Notion 5 not really any better than 4, [Notion 6 (bought but not installed)]
Pro Tools 9.5, Reaper
Kontakt 5
GPO4, GPO5, World Instruments
SmartScore X Pro, SmartScore X2 Pro, PhotoScore Ultimate 6 & 7 & 8.04 ( 7 has some utility----best of those available, 8 has some issues that need fixing)
M-Audio "Oxygen 25" Midi input keyboard (recent addition 2014)
Systems (5) // Windows XP Pro (32bit), [email protected] Windows 7 Pro, 8.1 Pro, Windows 10 64 bit, 4GB - 16GB RAM
Paper & Pencil

BMus, MM (Musicology)

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Michel R. E.
Registered Member



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Date Joined May 2003
Total Posts : 7430
 
   Posted 12/20/2016 11:27 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Ebony Ivory said...
Adam W. said...
You've all been with us for a long time and you've come to expect a high level of service from our team including phone support. This is a big change in our support model and I can tell that there's some skepticism as to how well it can work. We're fully committed to continue offering the excellent level of support you're used to. All of that being said, I understand that talk is cheap so all I can ask is that you give us the chance to prove it.

Constructive feedback about our products makes them better, and we've opened a new centralized venue for those conversations to take place. Our new community is open for all of you to make any comments and conversation you'd like!

This simply stinks of patronising arrogance. "[We've] all been with us for a long time", YES, we HAVE. That's what pays for YOUR job, matey. Without US, there would be NO you. And this FORUM is where we talk to and help each other. YOUR users, YOUR income source.

So stop frigging pontificating, and LISTEN to the very people who PAY YOUR SALARY. Your USERS.

Brian


Hear hear!
What he said!


Finale (started with ver. 3.0) using 2012 (2014 has been shelved for its lack of support for older Garritan libraries), putting Finale 25 through its paces.
Windows 8.1
basically ALL Garritan libraries, plus XSample Chamber Ensemble.

"Art critics suffer from Pigeon Syndrome. Pigeons like to leave their mark on monuments. But at the end of the day, the pigeon remains a pigeon, and the monument remains a monument."

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Michel R. E.
Registered Member



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Date Joined May 2003
Total Posts : 7430
 
   Posted 12/20/2016 11:32 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Zuill said...
Worst case scenario: MakeMusic goes belly-up.
Zuill


sadly, the "worst case scenario" has a very real, tangible effect on us.
if MM goes belly up, there will be a limited time to continue using Finale before issues pop up. no bugs will get fixed. And lots of other issues.
If I lost Finale, I'd lose years and years of work.
Then I'd have to spend a LOT of time I don't have to learn a new software package, which will take time away from my composing.


Finale (started with ver. 3.0) using 2012 (2014 has been shelved for its lack of support for older Garritan libraries), putting Finale 25 through its paces.
Windows 8.1
basically ALL Garritan libraries, plus XSample Chamber Ensemble.

"Art critics suffer from Pigeon Syndrome. Pigeons like to leave their mark on monuments. But at the end of the day, the pigeon remains a pigeon, and the monument remains a monument."

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Dan Kreider
Registered Member



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Date Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts : 88
 
   Posted 12/21/2016 12:34 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Brian: I agree that we're all frustrated by this major misstep. But I think we'd do well to keep it respectful. Personal attacks are unlikely to give our requests a better hearing.

Just my two cents. I share the feeling of general disgruntledness and bewilderment, FWIW.

Regards,
Dan


Finale 2014d on Windows 10
Editor at Grace Music

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SF
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Total Posts : 1555
 
   Posted 12/21/2016 12:35 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
WHAT???!! The idea of moving forums does not mean the company is going belly-up. I've sat back reading this until now. This forum will be here to stay, to search etc…just locked. There is a new forum…either go to it or not. Do I like it…No, but how many times have I heard that this forum is subpar.

For many, many years there was never an official Finale forum and there was just the email forum (that continues on today) which helped Tobias create TGTools and showed MM that a forum would be a good idea. Frankly I still benefit from THAT forum more than I do here. Times change…it's time to move on. It might not be perfect but it will evolve and we will all find a place…or move on but Finale will still be here.


MPB 17" 3Ghz Intel Core 2 Duo, 8GB, 10.6.8 and 10.11.6
MacPro (mid 2010) 2.8 Ghz Qual-Core Intel Xeon, 16GB, 10.8.5, 10.11.6, 10.12 Three 27" Apple Displays
Finale 2.6.3-->25, Sib. 3.0-->7.5, Logic X, QuicKeys 4.0.7, DoubleCommand DoubleCommand, Mouse Locator Mouse Locator

Post Edited (SF) : 12/20/2016 10:39:30 PM (GMT-6)

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Mike Rosen
himself



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Date Joined Feb 2006
Total Posts : 14146
 
   Posted 12/21/2016 12:40 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Dan Kreider said...
Brian: I agree that we're all frustrated by this major misstep. But I think we'd do well to keep it respectful. Personal attacks are unlikely to give our requests a better hearing.

Just my two cents. I share the feeling of general disgruntledness and bewilderment, FWIW.

Regards,
Dan


I disagree. They have gone beyond hearing what their users say, respectful or not. Maybe it's time for all of us to say what we feel, loud and rude.

Because Godot will arrive, before they admit they made a mistake.



Mike Rosen
www.specialmillwork.com

Bass with Choir of the Sound www.choirofthesound.org
Volunteer copyist (The Gang of Twelve) for the Barbershop Harmony Society
FINALE TIPS at www.specialmillwork.com/finale-tips-and-tricks/index.html

Finale 2014.5 on El Capitan
Simple Entry, QWERTY keyboard, numberpad. That's my system, and I'm stickin' to it.

"As a musician, he's a damn fine woodworker."

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Jim Coull
Registered Member

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Date Joined Jun 1999
Total Posts : 2723
 
   Posted 12/21/2016 12:47 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
So Mike, in addition to all your other talents & skills, you are also a fan of Becketts?

JC
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Dan Kreider
Registered Member



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Date Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts : 88
 
   Posted 12/21/2016 12:47 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Mike Rosen said...
Maybe it's time for all of us to say what we feel, loud and rude.


To what end? Catharsis?

Not trying to start an argument, as mine was a tangential comment. Just casting a vote for respectful dialog, no matter what.

Kind regards,
Dan


Finale 2014d on Windows 10
Editor at Grace Music

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Michel R. E.
Registered Member



Email Address Not AvailablePersonal Homepage Not AvailableSend a Private Message to Michel R. E.AIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined May 2003
Total Posts : 7430
 
   Posted 12/21/2016 12:51 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Dan Kreider said...
Not trying to start an argument, as mine was a tangential comment. Just casting a vote for respectful dialog, no matter what.

Kind regards,
Dan


When someone speaks down to me, it's considerably past time for "respectful dialogue".


Finale (started with ver. 3.0) using 2012 (2014 has been shelved for its lack of support for older Garritan libraries), putting Finale 25 through its paces.
Windows 8.1
basically ALL Garritan libraries, plus XSample Chamber Ensemble.

"Art critics suffer from Pigeon Syndrome. Pigeons like to leave their mark on monuments. But at the end of the day, the pigeon remains a pigeon, and the monument remains a monument."

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