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Thimple
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   Posted 9/26/2002 6:22 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Just looking at the Finale 2003 music samples available to download from Coda. These aren't serious attempts to show to power of Finale are they?

"Row, Row, Row your boat, Gent-ly dow the stream..." :)
Also the click-assign in Singer 3 didn't work to well, unless Singer 3 is able to sing 2 words at the same time.

"Jingle Bells" is a classic example of extra hyphens with the lyric tool, EVEN with space between lyrics set to 3456!

And the website says "These musical samples work with Finale 2003" (makes it look like they are just for 2003), yet they were created with 2001b.r1 and other earlier versions.

I though when looking through these that finally we had some well-published samples to show off Finale's superior power, but obviously not. These examples are mostly embarrassing - mostly looking like they where whipped up in about 2 minutes each simply using the terrible Finale default file.

I vote these files be removed from the reach of potential Finale customers. We don't want to scare serious people away do we?

Has anyone else seen these samples before? I don't recall having heard anything about them before - not even complaining ;)

Thim Plentry
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Fred G. Unn
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   Posted 9/26/2002 6:47 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Yep, most are absolutely horrible and filled with engraving mistakes. It is precisely samples like these that are the reason SCORE users and many quality publishing companies like Boosey & Hawkes won't touch Finale. Coda should only include high quality samples that have been proofread by someone who actually knows and understands the finer points of quality music engraving. Anything less is a severe disservice and is really harmful to the reputation of Finale and Finale users.

Fred
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a dude
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   Posted 9/26/2002 9:57 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
On 9/26/2002 11:22:00 PM, Thim Plentry wrote:
>I though when looking through
>these...

I wholly agree with your sentiments, but the typo above goes to demonstrate how easy it is for things to slip through.
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Éric Dussault
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   Posted 9/27/2002 3:14 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
On 9/26/2002 11:47:00 PM, Fred G. Unn
wrote:
>Yep, most are absolutely
>horrible and filled with
>engraving mistakes. It is
>precisely samples like these
>that are the reason SCORE
>users and many quality
>publishing companies like
>Boosey & Hawkes won't touch
>Finale. Coda should only
>include high quality samples
>that have been proofread by
>someone who actually knows and
>understands the finer points
>of quality music engraving.
>Anything less is a severe
>disservice and is really
>harmful to the reputation of
>Finale and Finale users.
>
>Fred

I second this and also don't understand
why Coda hasn't made something to get
rid of the amateur-looking examples. By
the way Boosey and Hawkes is using
Finale for some publications, and
because many big publishers use Finale
for *some* publications, Coda thinks
there is nothing more to be done, but I
know that some serious engravers are
laughing about Finale because it is the
first thing they will see. If I were to choose
a notation software from examples I see,
I would certainly choose SCORE. The first
impression is also very important and
Finale doesn't give a very good one with
his examples. Now that I know Finale, I
would of course never use anything else,
but I understand the publishers who
hesitate to use it more widely.

Eric
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weeksc
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   Posted 9/27/2002 4:14 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
>>many quality publishing companies like Boosey & Hawkes won't touch Finale.<<

Please don't hold Boosey
& Hawkes up as some paragon of good publishing. If you find a single score of theirs in their catalog that has fewer than 20 errors I would be impressed. My doctoral dissertation was the creation of a corrected score to the William Byrd Suite--I stopped counting at 750 errors. Every band director knows to study their scores carefully when Boosey is the publisher.

--Clancy
___________________________
I never claimed to know everything...
I'm just right about the things I know!
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David Young : chambermusic
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   Posted 9/27/2002 5:00 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Clancy,

Your doctoral dissertation must be very interesting...


In regards to the thread, let me add that I have been asking Coda to pay a little more attention to engraving standard issues. I believe that all of us, in a sense, have been badgering them to pay a little more attention. Certain they have made some strides in this direction with the software itself. But I believe that they should be working to demonstrate good engraving.

David
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cliffdzihner
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   Posted 9/27/2002 5:44 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I noticed that they changed some things in the newest Maestro Font Default. I'm no pro-"engraver" but it looks different to me, whether or not it's better according to "engraver" standards, I don't know.
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a dude
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   Posted 9/27/2002 5:54 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
"Row, Row, Row your boat, Gent-ly dow the stream..."

All it took to fix this was typing a single "n". Maybe this Coda's way of demonstrating the dangers of cloning lyrics ;-)

You've all made some good points. Having worked for years in the publishing biz, I can tell you that even the most meticulously prepared scores and parts will have mistakes, but letting things like that slip through is just plain sloppy.

I know that we can contact Coda to tell them of our interest in being beta testers. Maybe those of us who have experience in proofreading a score should contact them about cleaning up these demos.

Al
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Ted Doerksen
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   Posted 9/27/2002 6:27 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Actually it is dow the stream; these are the correct lyrics. Most people aren't aware of this and erroneously write or sing "down the stream". Just plain wrong.

According to Merriam-Webster, the Scottish word dow means "to fade away, to become dull and withered". This is what you're doing when you row your boat; you're dowing the stream so that it becomes faded and withered. If you row long enough, there will be nothing left of the stream, which has long been a concern of environmentalists worldwide. It's good that Coda has subtly brought this to our attention, as now we can start thinking about the fish and the damage done to our streams by excessive dowage.

Thanks for your time.
:)



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cliffdzihner
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   Posted 9/27/2002 6:37 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.

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weeksc
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   Posted 9/27/2002 6:55 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Interesting is not the word I would use for it... *enlightening* at most. ;)

I should also tell you I engraved the entire corrected score in FinWin 3.0! (or maybe 3.5) Placing all the Tiffs generated by Finale into Word was not for the faint of heart. My old computer regularly choked on the files due to their size, forcing me to print only 1 or 2 pages at a time, reboot, print, etc. 200+ pages and 8 copies of each--nearly drove me nuts.


--Clancy
___________________________
I never claimed to know everything...
I'm just right about the things I know!
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seedmuse
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   Posted 9/27/2002 7:16 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Excellent.

Nay, "Inspired" Ted!
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a dude
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   Posted 9/27/2002 8:12 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
...the Scottish word Dow means "to fade away, to become dull and withered".

Apt, considering what's been happening to my stocks of late.

=:-O

Al
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Thimple
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   Posted 9/27/2002 7:15 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Nice Ted!

After more research, I've also found that "dow" is an acronyn for...

Data Orderwire
Date Of Withdrawal
Daubechies Orthogonal Wavelet
Day Of Week
Defenders of Wildlife
Description of Work
Died Of Wounds
Direct Overwrite
Dirty Old Woman
Division of Wildlife
Dogs of War
Doppler On Wheels

Daubechies Orthogonal Wavelet???

Secondly, "...gently dow the stream" implies giving the stream a small amount of money (or dowry), as opposed to giving it a large amount, in which case it would be well-endowed ;)

Thim Plentry
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Jon Delfin
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   Posted 9/28/2002 5:36 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Beating this further into the ground, I find that "dow" truly is listed in Webster's Third (and Chambers and Random House Unabridged). And among its meanings: it's a boat (usually spelled "dhow"). Go know.
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Lance Handsome
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   Posted 9/30/2002 2:19 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
>>by excessive dowage.

And the worst offender, I submit, must be the Empress Dowager!

Ken Rubin

"Score till you're sore and can score no more".
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Dick Brodfuehrer
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   Posted 9/30/2002 3:02 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Let's not forget the Beaver's big brother.
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Snorlax
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   Posted 9/30/2002 3:23 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Dick, Wasn't there a hymn written about Beaver's big brother--O Wally Wally?!?

Mick Zolidjian


Jim Williams
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N9EJR
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Thimple
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   Posted 9/30/2002 3:57 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Look what I found today!

Thim Plentry
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