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Richard N.
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   Posted 11/10/2002 9:26 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Hi,

I'm engraving a piano part which requires the use of two layers.

My problem is (see attachment) that beats in the two layers are not aligning correctly.

I know I can use the special tools to move the notes in line, but I think I must be missing something in the document options spacing settings.

Can anyone enlighten me.

Many thanks,

Richard
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Richard N.
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   Posted 11/10/2002 9:49 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I've done some more investigating and the problem appears to be that if there is a collision between an accidental in one layer and a note in the other layer on the same beat, then Finale puts avoids the collision by spacing the notes instead of repositioning the accidental.

But it also seems that if there is a similar collision which occurs when the colliding notes/accidentals are not on the same beat, then Finale does not attempt to avoid the collision - which causes another problem.

[I forget to say on my previous post, I am using F2k3]

So, as is usually the case, I now know more than I did before, but now I have another problem!

Richard
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Peter Thomsen
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   Posted 11/10/2002 10:01 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Richard,

As far as I can tell, the beats in the two layers are aligning correctly. You have
- a flag on the note in Layer 1,
- a collision of seconds between the two layers (g - f),
- an accidental on a note in Layer 2.

All that pushes the notes in Layer 2 to the right.

But it looks ugly.

To get a better look I suggest

1. Use one layer.

2. Use e flat instead of d sharp.

See the attached example.

Peter
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Richard N.
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   Posted 11/10/2002 11:34 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Peter,

Thanks for your response. It is a solution, but I am using 2 layers because I want the topline (the tune) to be 'stems up' and the lower notes to be 'stems down' - I don't think that this can be done in one layer.

Basically I am engraving this music as part of my ongoing learning about how to use Finale - for purely self educational purposes, I am trying to replicate published music exactly as it looks in print - hence the requirement for the stem directions and the D#.

Cheers,

Richard.
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Jim Coull
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   Posted 11/10/2002 7:24 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Richard,

I did not look at your example, but you can get stems up & down in a single layer by either using voice 1/voice 2 or with the double/split stem tool (found in the special tools tool).

Jim Coull
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Peter Thomsen
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   Posted 11/10/2002 8:27 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Richard,

You are "trying to replicate published music exactly as it looks in print". I wonder how the example you are trying to replicate looks in print?

Does it look like this (which, By The Way, is not correct, because of the collision between the accidental and the note in Layer 1)?

Peter
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Richard N.
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   Posted 11/10/2002 11:08 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Peter,

Almost - yes the notes are laid out that way, but the sharp sign for the d# is offset to the left so that there is no collision with the note in layer one.

Richard
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Richard N.
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   Posted 11/11/2002 11:43 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Having tried some more experiments with layers, it would appear as though Finale's music spacing does not handle collisions of accidentals/notes in different layers at all well.

Can anyone confirm whether this is something that needs to be tweaked by hand using the special tools, or whether there is a way to avoid collisions between note/accidentals in different layers.

I can't help but feel that I am missing something because this seems to me a fairly fundamental requirement.

Richard.
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guser
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   Posted 11/11/2002 1:02 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
You can go to Options Menu > Document Settings > Music Spacing Options and check all the relevant 'Avoid Collision Of...' options, but it probably won't help.

Unfortunately your fear is correct, namely, Finale does a lousy job of dealing with collisions and spacing issues when multiple layers are present.

It is one of the reasons why many experienced users are boycotting F2003 and refusing to buy another version of Finale until the long list of bugs and other basic functional problems are addressed.
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Peter Thomsen
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   Posted 11/11/2002 8:32 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Richard,

There is a workaround, but it is not exactly an elegant solution:

Hide the accidental in Layer 2.
Add in Layer 3 a chord containing the d sharp and the g. Use hidden rests to position the chord on the third quarter beat.
In Layer 3, hide the stem (replace it with an empty shape), and hide the noteheads (replace them with a space character).

And don't forget to e-mail a feature request to MakeMusic. Finale should definitely have the option of treating accidentals in multiple layers as if all the accidentals were in the same layer.

Peter
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Richard N.
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   Posted 11/14/2002 10:27 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Thanks,

I have e-mailed this request to MakeMusic.

I have rec'd a reply and they have said:

"...This is a well known bug
for Finale and is being looked at...."

Fingers crossed, eh?

Richard
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