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seakerca
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   Posted 11/24/2002 4:56 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Does anyone recommend a good book for beginner users of Finale 2002? I don't find the help very helpful because it is more function than task oriented. Even the "How To" section isn't particularly well organized in terms of when a user should do what.
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seakerca
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   Posted 11/24/2002 5:01 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
To clarify, when I was referring to the help, I meant the user guide. I just noticed the online help, which one doesn't seem to be able to access from the Help menu but can access from one of the open windows then pressing the Help button.
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ronny
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   Posted 11/24/2002 5:20 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
the video is great for beginners. it's on the installation cd.


ron davis
http://www.highclassbrass.com
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seakerca
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   Posted 11/24/2002 7:13 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I would if I had the CD. I got this computer from a friend of mine who had Finale installed on it, he deleted the videos he claims after he had learned the product cause he wanted to free up space on his hard drive and he lost the CD!! Is there any way anyone can zip the videos up or send them to me on a disk or point me to location where I could download them? I am willing to pay!!!
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ronny
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   Posted 11/24/2002 9:01 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
oooh.....got the picture now. (laughing in background) ; )


ron davis
http://www.highclassbrass.com
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HOMR
Handsome gent



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   Posted 11/24/2002 10:29 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
There is a new book that just came out a few weeks ago: Finale Power! (Power! Series), by Mark Johnson from Coda. I haven't gotten it yet, but it looks interesting.

Paul
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Dick Brodfuehrer
Hack Arranger and C.O.G. (Chief Old Geezer)



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   Posted 11/24/2002 10:30 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
On 11/24/2002 12:13:00 PM, Greg Thompson wrote:

>Is there any way anyone can zip
>the videos up or send them to
>me on a disk or point me to
>location where I could
>download them? I am willing to
>pay!!!

I'm sure Coda would be happy to sell you a copy of Finale, complete with disk.
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seakerca
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   Posted 11/24/2002 1:07 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I am not willing to pay that much :)
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somusque
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   Posted 11/24/2002 3:29 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I got it, and it's great.

Another link is http://www.finalepower.com

Cheers,
Tobias

--------------------------------------------
My TGTools plug-in collection for Finale:
http://www.tgtools.com
no fiddling, just music.
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Jari Williamsson
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   Posted 11/24/2002 11:18 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
On 11/24/2002 6:07:00 PM, Greg Thompson wrote:
>I am not willing to pay that
>much :)

Sorry, but I don't get the reason for the smiley.
I find it's pretty pathetic that _at least_ someone dealing with music/notation/publishing/whatever doesn't understand the issue of intellectual property. And as a programmer, I find it pretty pathetic that you don't understand the amount of development resources required for a music notation product such as Finale.
And I find it pretty pathetic that you make other Finale users pay a higher product price because of people behaving like you.

Please feel free to stop spamming this forum. Or buy a product that you feel you can afford.


Best regards,

Jari Williamsson
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Jari Williamsson
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   Posted 11/24/2002 11:33 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
On 11/24/2002 8:29:00 PM, Tobias Giesen wrote:
>I got it, and it's great.

I also got it. The layout of the book is mainly designed as a cook book discussing different kind of Finale usage (a bit similar to Finale's tutorial book, but in much more depth and covering much more topics). For the average Finale user, it's probably a great help.


Best regards,

Jari Williamsson
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Richard N.
Musician



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   Posted 11/24/2002 11:50 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Jari,

An impossible question, no doubt, but I wonder just who average Finale user is.

From my own experience over the years, Coda/MakeMusic has never asked me what I use Finale for. How do they decide the best way to develop it each year?

Richard N.
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Jari Williamsson
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   Posted 11/25/2002 12:49 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
On 11/25/2002 4:50:00 AM, Richard Nield wrote:
>Jari,
>
>An impossible question, no
>doubt, but I wonder just who
>average Finale user is.

I was referring to an average skill level. (Like: Total beginners of Finale might find the book too hard to follow. Finale wizards have probably found out most stuff already.)

The tasks in the book covers so many areas so each user should easily find some topics that suits his/her working process.

However, one thing that probably should be mentioned is that there are occasional proofreading errors in the book.

>From my own experience over
>the years, Coda/MakeMusic has
>never asked me what I use
>Finale for. How do they decide
>the best way to develop it
>each year?

I believe sending in feature requests is a good way to tell Coda what you want? I believe the Finale tutorial mention that sending in priority-based feature request lists are of big help.


Best regards,

Jari Williamsson
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Fugato
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   Posted 11/25/2002 3:00 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
>I was referring to an average skill
>level.
>I believe sending in feature requests is
>a good way to tell Coda what you want?

Hi everybody!

Nice Topic, here.

It's quite easy to recognize top users: Jari, Tobias, Dick aso.

It's always the same old story:
when it gets professional, we can read the same signatures.

May I'm allowed to make a comment?

About levels, average , skills, aso...

My english is really basic (as you can read) but I can tell my knowledge of Finale is on top of the curve.
That's the main reason why I seem "shy" to reply...sometimes.

Then, I still wonder, if Coda is really listening to our several demands?
And in which direction?

We all remember previous: the ugly & painful Page Layout Tool Box, we missed Staff Styles, Years ago a good Guitar / Lute tablature was quite a dream & painful process, and many more...

So, 97, 98, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003...came.

In my own point of view, I'm still waiting for a REAL Finale Professional Issue.

There are yet to many things missing (more fonts, a real text tool, drawing updated entries) which must be enhanced in the Notation Side.

I'm little bit tired to upgrade for Plug-Ins like:
Morphing Webern to Jennifer Lopez,Turn your Art of Fugue into R&B, or modify a single melody to unacceptable 4 parts harmony marching Band with directs 5th + 8ves, or "Fisher-Price" look-a-like scanning sys...

Each time I write to Coda to ask if it's possible to wait after something useful or, at least, necessary, I always get quite polite answers from Tyler or Thierry...Good.

So, it's still possible to wait.

But answers always sounds cold & distant...
Nearly ignored...

Waiting for 2004 with no illusions, and "praying" for a Finale PRESTO (Professional Real Enhanced System, Top Options)

WE NEED MANY MORE NOTATION ENHANCEMENTS!

Did not want to shout...But please let's give us a much better Finale next time...

Not a "family" or "home" edition.

Best regards,


Fugato
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Jari Williamsson
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   Posted 11/25/2002 4:16 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
On 11/25/2002 8:00:00 AM, Michel Savary wrote:
>In my own point of view, I'm
>still waiting for a REAL
>Finale Professional Issue.
>
>There are yet to many things
>missing (more fonts, a real
>text tool, drawing updated
>entries) which must be
>enhanced in the Notation Side.

I think you yourself have proven how difficult the "what-new-features-to-add" issue is:

Why would Finale become more "professional" by bundling more fonts with it? There are _plenty_ of music fonts already available (both for purchase and as free downloads). And buying a Windows font editor (such as FCP) doesn't cost that much.


Best regards,

Jari Williamsson
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seakerca
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   Posted 11/25/2002 4:50 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Because he moved to NYC and I live in the San Fran Bay area.
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seakerca
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   Posted 11/25/2002 4:58 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
1. I am not responsible for the high cost of development. That is a another whole new Pandora's box I don't plan to address. All I did was by a PC with software loaded on it. He doesn't use it nor any of the software he had loaded on it. The property rights have been transferred to me.

2. I don't think I am spamming. My questions don't even come close to the definition of spamming. If you don't wish to respond to my questions, then don't. I shall continue to ask questions
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cliffdzihner
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   Posted 11/25/2002 5:07 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
This one way, and probably the best way, that software companies protect their intellectual property. Those who buy the product legally get the tools they need to learn the functionality of the product and tech support. Illegal users get none of that, and that's the way it should be.

This is one possible reason why Coda shouldn't allow unregistered users to post on the forum, but then again I can think of other reasons why they should.
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seakerca
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   Posted 11/25/2002 5:10 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
The web site and the description of the book indicates that it focuses on the most recent version of Finale (200X). I am interested in a book on Finale 2002. Has anyone used a book for that version?
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cliffdzihner
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   Posted 11/25/2002 5:11 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
p.s. I've looked at the Finale Power book. I have to admit that it's a bit silly of a title, but the content seems top notch from what I've seen. I can overlook some proof-reading errors.
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Dick Brodfuehrer
Hack Arranger and C.O.G. (Chief Old Geezer)



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   Posted 11/25/2002 5:17 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
On 11/25/2002 9:58:00 AM, Greg Thompson wrote:

>He doesn't use it nor any of the
>software he had loaded on it.
>The property rights have been
>transferred to me.

I don't know if they still do, but Coda used to offer a transfer of registration for a nominal fee (was $25 I think). If you have done that, perhaps you can work something out with them to replace the missing stuff.

Dick


http://www.ambassadormusic.com
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Jari Williamsson
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   Posted 11/25/2002 5:47 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
On 11/25/2002 9:58:00 AM, Greg Thompson wrote:
>All I did was by a PC
>with software loaded on it. He
>doesn't use it nor any of the
>software he had loaded on it.
>The property rights have been
>transferred to me.

If you already got Coda's written agreement to transfer the licence to you, why don't you just call Coda and ask for a replacement disk?


Best regards,

Jari Williamsson
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cliffdzihner
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   Posted 11/25/2002 6:09 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
On 11/25/2002 9:58:00 AM, Greg Thompson wrote:
>1. I am not responsible for
>the high cost of development.
>That is a another whole new
>Pandora's box I don't plan to
>address. All I did was by a PC
>with software loaded on it. He
>doesn't use it nor any of the
>software he had loaded on it.
>The property rights have been
>transferred to me.
>
>2. I don't think I am
>spamming. My questions don't
>even come close to the
>definition of spamming. If you
>don't wish to respond to my
>questions, then don't. I shall
>continue to ask questions

I apologize nor not reading this before making the previous comment (probably below), if all you say is true, you shouldn't have any problem getting the stuff you need. FYI: Coda typically only keeps materials on hand from one year back, at least this is what customer service has said before.
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Fugato
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   Posted 11/25/2002 1:26 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
> Jari wrote:
> I think you yourself have proven how difficult the "what-new-features-to-add" issue is:
> Why would Finale become more "professional" by bundling more fonts with it?
>There are _plenty_ of music fonts already available (both for purchase and as free downloads).
>And buying a Windows font editor (such as FCP) doesn't cost that much.

Jari,


I'd like to come back gently on your comment:
Maybe I did not write clearly my idea, so I wish to precise:

It's not a matter of money.

1- When I say "more fonts", I did not want to mean several different ones. But, more complete some.
There are to many signs missing both in Petrucci, Engraver...just mind about gruppetto sign, for example, just one item, no accident with it, just one direction, well it's not a shame but just a pity...
More Fonts, does not mean many more fonts, but a much better complete set of signs, so that any serious engraver could work on basic standards.
Actually, the library of ornaments is poor.
I sent a specific file to Coda Tech about this.

2- I'm quite respectful for what you personally do, regarding your Plugs dedicated to Finale, and it's not my project to argue against someone like you, be sure.
But I 'd like to precise my opinion, if you accept.
So, I'm in disguise myself about Finale:
I always encourage all my students to purchase it, explaining why it's the best, the most complete & achieved, and so on.
But in the other hand, in a more private circle (me + myself + I + other engravers + other Finale Teachers), we share our whispering regrets not to get a better software from Coda.
I would like to upgrade less often, but for something more specific & dramatic in changes.

3- Main Point:

Why should we accept from Finale something we would refuse from anybody(thing) else?

Would you accept to use Microsoft Word if you were supposed to purchase another soft to get Caps or Italic characters?
Would you accept to use Microsoft Excel if you were supposed to purchase another soft to get the AZ / ZA function?
Would you accept to buy a car with engine, wheels or rear doors as options?
Would you be pleased to buy a house with a bathroom installed 2 miles away?
Etc..
This is not sarcastic, but, for a while, I suggest we consider the situation differently:

I'm amazed to ear & read things like:
"You can do it with Finale, just buy Acrobat"
"You can have a very good Page Layout with Finale, just export EPS to Photoshop"
"You need useful characters in Finale Fonts? Just buy some extras elsewhere or create yours".
"You need special shapes in Finale, just get Corel-Draw"

Well, I did not think Finale was so powerful enough to suggest such surrounding extra stuff.

4-Just think of the choice: Everybody has learned the rule.

Finale is the Best & most expensive,
Print Music is "less best" & not so expensive,
Allegro is "less good than the best" & really not expensive,
Guitar is nearly the Best & not expensive at all, but specific,
Note Pad is almost free & useful for beggars, not for engraving.

If someone considers he is a pro-user, he'll turn to the top of the selection.
But is this the latest or the last level?
Ultimate Hope?
I'd be ready to pay a little bit more for the "thing" which is upon all those.
Still waiting.
Coda always said Finale his the best they have.
I agree: It's the best.
...They have.

In France, we have a proverb that says: " In the country where blinds live, one-eyed men are kings"
So I think it's helpful to criticize the flag-product if it means: increase progress.
I hate to say that Finale is clumsy from time to time, but I'm not ready to forgive for erratic improvements or directions.
Do you?
Best regards,

Michel "Fugato" Savary
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seakerca
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   Posted 11/25/2002 3:21 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I didnt get the written agreement from Coda. I just a verbal agreement from my friend. He didnt say anything about contacting coda. He just said "Its yours."
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