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Matthew Hindson
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Date Joined Jan 1999
Total Posts : 406
 
   Posted 11/25/2002 6:55 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
>1- When I say "more fonts", I
>did not want to mean several
>different ones. But, more
>complete some.
>There are to many signs
>missing both in Petrucci,
>Engraver...just mind about
>gruppetto sign, for example,
>just one item, no accident
>with it, just one direction,
>well it's not a shame but just
>a pity...
>More Fonts, does not mean many
>more fonts, but a much better
>complete set of signs, so that
>any serious engraver could
>work on basic standards.
>Actually, the library of
>ornaments is poor.
>I sent a specific file to Coda
>Tech about this.

There is a wider selection of font
characters available in Sibelius, to be
sure. Of course there's nothing stopping
you downloading the Sibelius demo and
using their fonts from within Finale.

I suppose the issue is whether Coda
should spend their development time
adding in extra characters into fonts when
it's possible to buy those fonts
elsewhere. You'd get the 'grace-note
brigade' (of which I'm one) vehemently
disagreeing with this notion, I would
suspect. :-)

Mind you, they've done it in the past, with
new versions of Finale adding characters
to the fonts.


>But in the other hand, in a
>more private circle (me +
>myself + I + other engravers +
>other Finale Teachers), we
>share our whispering regrets
>not to get a better software
>from Coda.

Sure, I don't think anyone would disagree
with you. Mind you, I bet power users say
things like this about every application
that's out there, not just Finale.

>I would like to upgrade less
>often, but for something more
>specific & dramatic in
>changes.

That seemed to be the point with regards
to the Finale 2003 upgrade.

I think that when the third-party plugins
are updated after the release of the 2003
PDK, you'll find that the benefits of 2003
are much more tangible.

>Would you accept to use
>Microsoft Word if you were
>supposed to purchase another
>soft to get Caps or Italic
>characters?
>Would you accept to use
>Microsoft Excel if you were
>supposed to purchase another
>soft to get the AZ / ZA
>function?
>Would you accept to buy a car
>with engine, wheels or rear
>doors as options?
>Would you be pleased to buy a
>house with a bathroom
>installed 2 miles away?
>Etc..

Hmm, I don't think it's _that_ bad.


>I'm amazed to ear & read
>things like:
>"You can do it with Finale,
>just buy Acrobat"

Acrobat does a great job. I wouldn't want
Coda to produce a z grade version of a
PDF producer at the expense of other
features.

>"You can have a very good Page
>Layout with Finale, just
>export EPS to Photoshop"

Export EPS to Photoshop for page layout?
Maybe Pagemaker or Indesign. But I
think Finale's page layout tools are pretty
good in themselves, IMHO, especially
when used with some third-party plugins
that are available.

>"You need special shapes in
>Finale, just get Corel-Draw"

I do agree that this is annoying. Some
extra items like "Snap to Grid" and "Flip
Horizontal" within the shape designer
would be very welcome.

>
>Finale is the Best & most
>expensive,
>Print Music is "less best" &
>not so expensive,
>Allegro is "less good than the
>best" & really not expensive,
>Guitar is nearly the Best &
>not expensive at all, but
>specific,
>Note Pad is almost free &
>useful for beggars, not for
>engraving.
>
>If someone considers he is a
>pro-user, he'll turn to the
>top of the selection.
>But is this the latest or the
>last level?
>Ultimate Hope?
>I'd be ready to pay a little
>bit more for the "thing" which
>is upon all those.
>Still waiting.
>Coda always said Finale his
>the best they have.
>I agree: It's the best.
>...They have.

Yes, well, we can always try other
applications and see how they stack up.

It would be nice to get a version of Finale
from 10 years into the future.

Maybe if Coda had unlimited money, our
concerns would be addressed
immediately. If you have a look at some
of the past MakeMusic financial reports, I
suspect that progress may not as fast as
we might ideally like.
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Jari Williamsson
Registered Member

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Date Joined Dec 1998
Total Posts : 3246
 
   Posted 11/25/2002 8:41 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
On 11/25/2002 8:21:00 PM, Greg Thompson wrote:
>I didnt get the written
>agreement from Coda. I just a
>verbal agreement from my
>friend. He didnt say anything
>about contacting coda. He just
>said "Its yours."

Then this is crystal clear: You don't have a licence of Finale (and probably worth checking out the other software on that computer as well).
A software licence is usually between the original licencee and the software company, it has nothing to do with the computer it was installed on (single-licence software is most often allowed to be installed on multiple machines as long as the licencee can guarantee that it can only be used on one computer at one occasion).

A copy of the licence agreement is found at the beginning of the PDF documentation.


Best regards,

Jari Williamsson
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Jari Williamsson
Registered Member

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Date Joined Dec 1998
Total Posts : 3246
 
   Posted 11/25/2002 9:24 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
On 11/25/2002 6:26:00 PM, Michel Savary wrote:
>1- When I say "more fonts", I
>did not want to mean several
>different ones. But, more
>complete some.
>There are to many signs
>missing both in Petrucci,
>Engraver...just mind about
>gruppetto sign, for example,
>just one item, no accident
>with it, just one direction,
>well it's not a shame but just
>a pity...
>More Fonts, does not mean many
>more fonts, but a much better
>complete set of signs, so that
>any serious engraver could
>work on basic standards.
>Actually, the library of
>ornaments is poor.
>I sent a specific file to Coda
>Tech about this.

Remember, this is _your_ requirements as an engraver. Other engravers might have very different needs and/or might never require the font characters that you need.

Another example: it wouldn't be that hard to find 10 users on this forum that would like to have a save-as-MP3-file feature. Would it be of use to you for your professional needs?

>3- Main Point:
>
>Why should we accept from
>Finale something we would
>refuse from anybody(thing)
>else?
>
>Would you accept to use
>Microsoft Word if you were
>supposed to purchase another
>soft to get Caps or Italic
>characters?

Would you accept Finale to crash while editing, as often as Word does on large documents with many hyperlinks or tables-within-tables?

>Would you accept to use
>Microsoft Excel if you were
>supposed to purchase another
>soft to get the AZ / ZA
>function?

IMO, it would be better to compare with products from a company like Adobe.

Coda (and Adobe) wouldn't for example have the same possiblilities of bundling their software with computer purchase as Microsoft (=leading to a much broader user base).

>Would you accept to buy a car
>with engine, wheels or rear
>doors as options?
>Would you be pleased to buy a
>house with a bathroom
>installed 2 miles away?
>Etc..
>This is not sarcastic, but,
>for a while, I suggest we
>consider the situation
>differently:
>
>I'm amazed to ear & read
>things like:
>"You can do it with Finale,
>just buy Acrobat"

Since you mention Word above - can Word export to PDF out-of-the-box?

>"You can have a very good Page
>Layout with Finale, just
>export EPS to Photoshop"

Who would suggest doing page layout in Photoshop? Photoshop is a program for handling bitmapped graphics.

>"You need useful characters in
>Finale Fonts? Just buy some
>extras elsewhere or create
>yours".
>"You need special shapes in
>Finale, just get Corel-Draw"

I personally think the shape designer is OK, although the UI is crap.

>Well, I did not think Finale
>was so powerful enough to
>suggest such surrounding extra
>stuff.

You could go on and on, finally ending in a complaint that Finale doesn't include a printer that prints large format scores.


Best regards,

Jari Williamsson
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seakerca
Registered Member

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Date Joined Nov 2002
Total Posts : 20
 
   Posted 11/26/2002 5:28 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
The Finale support group has referred me to the customer service group to discuss transferring this license to me.
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GT
It was some other guy.



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Date Joined Feb 2001
Total Posts : 1434
 
   Posted 11/26/2002 10:24 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
This thread is one reason that I don't come to the Forum as often as I used to...

I'm not referring to the original post; whether or not someone has bought Finale legally is not my concern.

(Here is where some people will get huffy and say that it SHOULD be my concern, because software piracy hurts everyone, etc. This is probably true, but I've always bought my copies and upgrades legally, so I'm doing my part to help keep MakeMusic solvent. Further, I don't copy software illegally, I don't download it illegally, and I certainly don't post it on sites where it can be downloaded illegally, so my conscience is clear. What other people do is beyond my control, so I don't worry about it.)

Anyway, I'm referring to the comments Jari posted in response to Fugato's comments. As usual, when someone listed some quibbles about Finale—very tactfully, I might add—Jari had to reply in a condescending manner, whether intentional or not. It seems to be a knee-jerk reaction: When anyone makes comments about Finale's shortcomings, Jari gets defensive. Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to flame Jari here, and I'm the first to admit that he's an incredible resource to Finale users, with his tips and his Plug-Ins. But I don't understand why he feels the need to respond in such a manner. Yeah, Finale is far from perfect, and so is every other application I use regularly, and ever will. What's the big deal? It's not like Fugato is accusing Finale of reformatting his hard drive every time he tries to open the program.

Look, I've said this many times before on this Forum: I like Finale, and I'm pretty darn good with it, and there is nearly nothing I can't get it to do, as far as the visual look of my music. I will never, EVER switch to Sibelius, because I won't need to. If the production of Finale ceased as of tomorrow, I'd still be able to do my work, albeit with a few clunky workarounds.

My preference would be that the coders of Finale address known issues—I'm told that 2004 will do this, although it doesn't appear that the Lyric Tool will be one of them—and I personally have no need for rhyming dictionaries or 14 different palette looks. (I use Traditional, and one of the first things I did was bring back the little red truck.) I understand, though, that the marketing division feels that they need to include cute things to try to attract new business, which is fine. As long as the application still lets me do my work, they can add whatever bells and whistles they like.

However, there may well come a time when I finally say, "Enough." If they don't fix things like accidental spacing between layers (and while I admit that this is a pet peeve of mine, I think that it's inexcusable that something that is such a basic part of music spacing has been ignored for so long), and since I can do all of the work I need to do with the current version, why should I upgrade?

I've made this point known to the president of MakeMusic, and he and I have had several pleasant e-mail conversations. He's listened to my complaints and has responded in a very civil manner. Even though I'm only one person, he's given me the impression that he would hate to lose me as a customer.

Time will tell, I suppose.

Sorry for the rambling.

Happy Thanksgiving, everyone.

Peace,

Gary
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Jari Williamsson
Registered Member

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Date Joined Dec 1998
Total Posts : 3246
 
   Posted 11/27/2002 12:38 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
On 11/27/2002 3:24:00 AM, Gary Tomassetti wrote:

>Anyway, I'm referring to the
>comments Jari posted in
>response to Fugato's comments.

If Fugato feels insulted by my replies in any way, I really apologize. It was not my intent at all.

Since Gary feels that he can't attend this forum as often when I'm posting here (posts that Gary constantly seem to misunderstand), I will now permanently leave this forum. I might post occasional announcements here in the future, though.


Best regards,

Jari Williamsson
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Fugato
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Date Joined Aug 2002
Total Posts : 39
 
   Posted 11/27/2002 2:01 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
On 11/27/2002 5:38:00 AM, Jari Williamsson wrote:
>On 11/27/2002 3:24:00 AM, Gary
>Tomassetti wrote:
>
>>Anyway, I'm referring to the
>>comments Jari posted in
>>response to Fugato's comments.
>
>If Fugato feels insulted by my replies
>in any way, I really apologize. It was
>not my intent at all.

You're Welcome, JW.

Thanks Gary, you mentionned this, but if I felt insulted, I'm old & mature enough to respond Jari the way it must & drive him back in the right place...

That's not the case, but actually, Jari seems a bit nervous to react on the topic, so I propose one more time,another point of view...

>I will now permanently
>leave this forum. I might post
>occasional announcements here in the
>future, though.

Jari! this sounds like blackmail...or at least, a "Diva Cappriccio"...Why does it turn this way?

You guys, are both right in different areas, & I think it's time to calm down an absurd situation: Just imagine for a while, we would meet around a cool drink & discuss about all that Finale stuff & Issues, constructive opinions, projects, & hopes...

Between gentlemen.

We ALL have the same interest, even thru differences: contribute to a better Finale!

Sarcastic comments or childish attitudes won't never drive anything to progress.

So, to your points of view, Gari, Jari (& all the ones concerned) please tell me what have we got to win in arguing against each others?

What kind of image are you offering to newbies, visitors, CodaTech, & many more?

It's waste of time & energy, meanwhile, Coda's waiting for serious comments.

Do you think this helps all of us to get better results or increase developement?

So, please Gentlemen, shake hands, kiss each other or anything else you like, and DO replace weapons in the case.

For the best health of our favorite soft.

Coda said : We do the best we can.
I just reply: So, lets simply do better now.

"Everybody says: Music is love" do you remind this old tune by David Crosby?

I shall be really glad to read from you soon, men.

Including you Jari,of course, as soon as you'll decide not to turn up your nose...to the forum.
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GT
It was some other guy.



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Date Joined Feb 2001
Total Posts : 1434
 
   Posted 11/27/2002 2:21 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
On 11/27/2002 5:38:00 AM, Jari Williamsson wrote:

>Since Gary feels that he can't attend
>this forum as often when I'm posting
>here (posts that Gary constantly seem to
>misunderstand), I will now permanently
>leave this forum. I might post
>occasional announcements here in the
>future, though.

Jari:

Yes, I said that I don't visit as often anymore, partly because of posts like this. To clarify: I'm just not as interested as I used to be in reading, or participating in discussions of this nature. It's like getting into an argument about religion or politics. The result is the equivalent of smashing my head into a wall: No satisfaction, and a big headache. It certainly doesn't make me a better Finale user.

Your playing the martyr will accomplish nothing—unless getting everyone to decide that I'm the villain is your aim—and will only hurt Finale users who can benefit from your knowledge. You're far too intelligent to believe that this was my aim.

Nowhere did I say, or imply, that this Forum ain't big enough for the two of us. But since you seem to believe that it is, it's far better that I bow out now, as you do much more good here than do I.

Gary
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ronny
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Date Joined Mar 2001
Total Posts : 581
 
   Posted 11/27/2002 3:10 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
ok ok ok...i'll start using my SHIFT key if you guys will stop the whining. it's all good. "can't we all just get along?"


ron davis
http://www.highclassbrass.com
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Dick Brodfuehrer
Hack Arranger and C.O.G. (Chief Old Geezer)



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Total Posts : 4687
 
   Posted 11/27/2002 4:15 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Right on Ron!

If I see something that I know is going to permanently damage my ultra-sensitive ego (fat chance) or a string that is otherwise of no interest to me, I just go on to another string that is more to my liking. What does it take to do that? One mouse click and a couple seconds of my time. Of course, if my time was so valuable that a couple of seconds was an unacceptable imposition, then I might also be whining, weeping, wailing, and gnashing my teeth. And, like a spoiled child, I might also take my ball and go home.

Gary and Jari have both been major contributors to this forum, and I have learned a lot from them. It would be a shame to lose their input, but not if that means we must never, ever disagree with them.

Dick
http://www.ambassadormusic.com
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cliffdzihner
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Total Posts : 486
 
   Posted 11/27/2002 4:27 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Musicians, in some ways, need big egos. So, it's not unusual that we get all flustered from time to time.

That said, I put in a vote that Jari not leave the forum. I don't think it was Gary's intention at all to indicate that Jari's posts, in general, were offensive.
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zac100
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Total Posts : 184
 
   Posted 11/27/2002 4:44 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
>ok ok ok...i'll start using my
>SHIFT key if you guys will
>stop the whining. it's all
>good. "can't we all just get
>along?"

Ron, you crack me up! :-)

However, it seems to me that, despite the
popular opinion, I think your shift key
functions just fine. We've all seen ? and
( ) " and perhaps even ! in some of your
posts...

;-)

Happy turkey, everyone!
Zac

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Dick Brodfuehrer
Hack Arranger and C.O.G. (Chief Old Geezer)



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Date Joined Jul 2000
Total Posts : 4687
 
   Posted 11/27/2002 5:43 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I have it on good authority that the last time Ron used his shift key three spiders and an unidentified rodent ran from under the shift key to his synth. keyboard and disappeared under the low C# key where they reside unmolested to this day. ;o)

Dick
http://www.ambassadormusic.com
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KigD
Registered Member



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Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 260
 
   Posted 11/29/2002 3:45 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
You all are so crazy. This is just a forum. A stupid question has risen all this attention and posts. You don't attack people on these forums, this isn't one of those yahoo message boards. I hope this is the last message of this thread.



Danny M

AIM Screen Name= MatrixFight


My Compositions




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Dan Powers
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   Posted 12/3/2002 2:37 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
No, this is the last message of this thread!

Dan Powers
www.swanswingpress.com
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cliffdzihner
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   Posted 12/3/2002 5:15 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Well, I hope that's the last message...

D'oh!
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