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David Young : chambermusic
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   Posted 5/23/2003 3:58 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
So...? What's with the new home page look?

David
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Tim Rowland
...Rowland...Rowland, though the streams are...



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   Posted 5/23/2003 4:27 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Hey...that wasn't there a few hours ago!
Think I've had too many home brews...

Tim
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Jetcopy
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   Posted 5/23/2003 7:08 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I didn't see any link to this forum on the
new home page. Am I missing something? One
suggestion, if they take the time to
re-design this forum too, I think they should
remove the "anonymous" choice to posters.
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David Young : chambermusic
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   Posted 5/23/2003 7:30 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
..... I think they should remove the "anonymous" choice to posters.

Ha, Ha, Ha....



Say, I noticed that they will be revising the Finale Showcase as well. Perhaps it will become more interactive. I'd like that!

David

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Dick Brodfuehrer
Hack Arranger and C.O.G. (Chief Old Geezer)



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   Posted 5/23/2003 8:03 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Just another example of form over substance, a concept Coda seems to have embraced wholeheartedly.

Dick
http://www.ambassadormusic.com
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GT
It was some other guy.



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Total Posts : 1434
 
   Posted 5/23/2003 10:02 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Does it address accidental spacing between layers, or grace note spacing, or the kludgy Lyric...

Oh, never mind.
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Bill Reed
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   Posted 5/23/2003 10:10 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Oh Gary, you're just like a broken record... :)
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TechSupport
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Total Posts : 432
 
   Posted 5/23/2003 11:30 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
"Just another example of form over substance, a concept Coda seems to have embraced wholeheartedly."

Form:
Site looks a lot better

Substance (not comprehensive list):
Site is much faster for customers
Much easier to navigate and FIND things
Faster internal interface
New Forums to come

The Finale programmers and our web developers are not working on the same tasks. This project didn't interfere with Finale development. And it was crucial for several reasons.

Tyler
Coda Tech

Note: These on-line forums are intended for the exchange of ideas among the users of MakeMusic products. If you'd like individual help from our technical support staff, please contact them directly via email at [email protected] or [email protected] or call 952-937-9703.
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David Young : chambermusic
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   Posted 5/23/2003 12:40 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Good luck on the new forums. I hope to be a part.

David
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PetersSongs
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   Posted 5/23/2003 1:13 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
On 5/23/2003 3:30:00 PM, Coda Tech (Win) wrote:
>"Just another example of form
>over substance, a concept Coda
>seems to have embraced
>wholeheartedly."
>
>Form:
>Site looks a lot better
>
>Substance (not comprehensive
>list):
>Site is much faster for
>customers
>Much easier to navigate and
>FIND things
>Faster internal interface
>New Forums to come
>
>The Finale programmers and our
>web developers are not working
>on the same tasks. This
>project didn't interfere with
>Finale development. And it was
>crucial for several reasons.
>
>Tyler
>Coda TechNote: These on-line
>forums are intended for the
>exchange of ideas among the
>users of MakeMusic products.
>If you'd like individual help
>from our technical support
>staff, please contact them
>directly via email at
>[email protected] or
>[email protected] or
>call 952-937-9703.


Congratulation Coda (everybody)!

May you prosper and grow ;-)

Anon
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GT
It was some other guy.



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   Posted 5/23/2003 1:32 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
The Finale programmers and our web developers are not working on the same tasks. This project didn't interfere with Finale development. And it was crucial for several reasons.

Tyler, there's no need to get defensive... I was definitely being obnoxious, but I was in no way implying that one task took away from or was more or less important that the other.

Having said that, though, I'd be really happy if 2004 addressed the problems of accidental spacing between layers, and grace note spacing, and the kludgy Lyric tool[click]...the problems of accidental spacing between layers, and grace note spacing, and the kludgy Lyric tool[click]...the problems of accidental spacing between layers, and grace note spacing, and the kludgy Lyric tool[click]...the problems of accidental spacing...

(Who was it that said I sound like a broken record?)

;-)
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s.k.henry
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   Posted 5/23/2003 1:33 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
... Where are the links to all the related sites? These used to be under Support but I can't find them anymore.
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TechSupport
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Total Posts : 432
 
   Posted 5/23/2003 1:54 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I've sent a note about this to the developer. If they are there, I haven't found them yet either.

Tyler
Coda Tech

Note: These on-line forums are intended for the exchange of ideas among the users of MakeMusic products. If you'd like individual help from our technical support staff, please contact them directly via email at [email protected] or [email protected] or call 952-937-9703.
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Richard N.
Musician



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Total Posts : 1424
 
   Posted 5/24/2003 12:37 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
"Site is much faster for customers"

The home page is slow to download on a dial-up connection (about 30 secs).

Thankfully, I normally use broadband.

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mknoll
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   Posted 5/24/2003 3:21 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
The links to related pages like "Online Forums" are in
javascript dropdown lists from the yellow bar. It
seems to be a fairly buggy implementation though,
at least under Safari on the Mac) as the headings are
all superimposed on top of one another. I can still
get the dropdowns though and the links do seem to
work. Perhaps under other browsers the links can't
be seen at all.

Cheers,

Mark
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Dick Brodfuehrer
Hack Arranger and C.O.G. (Chief Old Geezer)



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Total Posts : 4687
 
   Posted 5/24/2003 5:17 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
On 5/23/2003 3:30:00 PM, Coda Tech (Win) wrote:
>
>Form:
>Site looks a lot better

A matter of opinion. To me it is neither better nor worse, just different.

>Substance (not comprehensive
>list):
>Site is much faster for
>customers

I can see no measurable difference; however, I'm using cable access. If access speed is important to someone, then they should get rid of dial-up as I did.

>Much easier to navigate and
>FIND things

Again, a matter of opinion and to me, neither easier nor harder, just different.

>New Forums to come

I assume that means something else that ain't broke is about to be fixed.

>The Finale programmers and our
>web developers are not working
>on the same tasks. This
>project didn't interfere with
>Finale development.

That is an obviously incorrect statement. If one dollar or one man-hour was spent, those corporate resources were not available for other tasks. Perhaps if some of those resources were re-directed to Finale some of the program deficiencies could be addressed.

And finally, it appears to have been implemented with a number of coding bugs. Doesn't anyone believe in desk testing any more?

End of rant, and my last word on the subject. I need to get back to work.


Dick
http://www.ambassadormusic.com
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TechSupport
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Total Posts : 432
 
   Posted 5/24/2003 6:21 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
The word is that we are going through the links to clean them up before posting them again.

Tyler
Coda Tech

Note: These on-line forums are intended for the exchange of ideas among the users of MakeMusic products. If you'd like individual help from our technical support staff, please contact them directly via email at [email protected] or [email protected] or call 952-937-9703.
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s.k.henry
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   Posted 5/24/2003 7:57 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
The only dead link I noticed was to FinKeys. All others seemed current. Please place Mr. Patterson's site more prominently on the list. It is one of the most important resources out there.
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Jetcopy
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   Posted 5/24/2003 7:57 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
For some reason the new home page displays
differently on my windows machine than on my
mac. The windows version shows the moving
graphics at the top and the yellow menu bar
at the top of the screen. None of that
appears at all on my mac. Hmmm.
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Peter Thomsen
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   Posted 5/24/2003 9:44 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
On 5/24/2003 11:57:00 AM, Jeff Turner wrote:
>For some reason the new home
>page displays
>differently on my windows
>machine than on my
>mac. The windows version
>shows the moving
>graphics at the top and the
>yellow menu bar
>at the top of the screen.
>None of that
>appears at all on my mac.
>Hmmm.

Jeff,

My guess is that this is a browser issue.
There are quite many browsers for the Mac.
What browser are you using on the Mac?
What version?

I just tried Mozilla 1.3.1 and Internet Explorer 5.2.2. They both displayed "the moving graphics and the yellow menu bar at the top of the screen".

Peter
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PetersSongs
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Total Posts : 97
 
   Posted 5/24/2003 4:31 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
On 5/24/2003 11:57:00 AM, Stephen Henry wrote:
>The only dead link I noticed
>was to FinKeys. All others
>seemed current. Please place
>Mr. Patterson's site more
>prominently on the list. It is
>one of the most important
>resources out there.


I've found at least one problem with the new site: On my My Finale Showcase, I can't edit the info, - whenever I click on it, trying to get in, I'm always returned to 'Customer Account Login' and asked for a 'Password'. Please correct this for me. ;-)

Regards,
Anon



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TechSupport
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Total Posts : 432
 
   Posted 5/24/2003 6:34 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
>A matter of opinion. To me it is neither
>better nor worse, just different.

Yes, it is a matter of opinion. But in this case majority is important, and so far virtually everyone we've heard from has claimed to prefer the new look to the old.

>I can see no measurable difference;
>however, I'm using cable access. If
>access speed is important to someone,
>then they should get rid of dial-up as I
>did.

I'm at home right now, and it is twice as fast as it used to be for me. Downloads are much better as well.

>>Much easier to navigate and
>>FIND things
>
>Again, a matter of opinion and to me,
>neither easier nor harder, just
>different.

I have to disagree here. As someone who had explored the old website thoroughly, I can confidently say that there are fewer levels to navigate through now in order to find just about anything. This is a simpler interface, and I'd bet money on a majority of people being able to find things more quickly on this new site.

>
>>New Forums to come
>
>I assume that means something else that
>ain't broke is about to be fixed.

These forums are broken. The searching doesn't work properly, old posts get lost, etc. And they don't portray a positive image of the company. Realize that poor image results in fewer customers which results in less money to spend on developing the program - it hurts you too.

>That is an obviously incorrect
>statement. If one dollar or one man-hour
>was spent, those corporate resources
>were not available for other tasks.
>Perhaps if some of those resources were
>re-directed to Finale some of the
>program deficiencies could be addressed.

My meaning was that no Finale programmer spent time on this project, so no legitimate man-hours were lost to this. Were dollars spent? Yes - our webmaster earned his usual paycheck. But I think you'd agree that a company like this needs to have a web developer. There were technical problems that needed to be resolved, and this project was primarily centered around these. Keep in mind that the people who made the decision to create a better website have more information than you and even me regarding what it takes to make this company successful. There are times decisions are made that I don't agree with, but I usually find out afterwards that there was a key fact that I didn't know about which made the decision quite logical.
>
>And finally, it appears to have been
>implemented with a number of coding
>bugs. Doesn't anyone believe in desk
>testing any more?

The most important aspects of this website received a great deal of testing and are working very well (much of this you don't see).

Tyler
Coda Tech

Note: These on-line forums are intended for the exchange of ideas among the users of MakeMusic products. If you'd like individual help from our technical support staff, please contact them directly via email at [email protected] or [email protected] or call 952-937-9703.
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Richard N.
Musician



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   Posted 5/25/2003 1:59 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
"And they [the forums] don't portray a positive image of the company. Realize that poor image results in fewer customers which results in less money to spend on developing the program"

As the forums are used by people who have a problem to solve, it is inevitable that the forums won't be full of positive things about Finale. Questions will always be of the "Finale can't do ..." nature.

However, the vast majority of questions do get the response that "Finale can do ..." with instructions on how to do it.

Where Finale gets clobbered is on the [broken record warning] question of things that do not work - accidental spacing in layers etc., Perhaps a more positive feeling would be generated if Coda told the forum why such things are apparently so difficult to put right, and advise the forum of progress and when they expect that these things will be fixed.

It would be interesting to know what mix of customers you have - i.e. what proportion are new purchasers as opposed to upgraders. If all the known bugs were fixed, the great proportion of existing users would upgrade and no doubt give positive feedback on the forum which could help to sell Finale to new users. As it is, each upgrade appears to address just one or two small areas to entice the brave few to upgrade every year or two years - perhaps that is the business plan - Coda know that if all the bugs are ironed out in the next upgrade, no-one will upgrade after that for a few years until some major innovations are incorporated- and their annual income from existing users would drop dramatically.

Call me cynical.. ..go on.

Richard N.
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David Young : chambermusic
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   Posted 5/25/2003 5:09 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
It seems to me that Codatechnology/Makemusic has a number of different customers to please.

1) Those interested in the best of the best in terms of notation appearance. And want the program to include tools to make the notation perfect without "work-arounds."

2) Those who want the easiest program to understand. One where note entry is a "no brainer."

3) Those who want the software to make the playback of the music as realistic as possible.

I have an interest in the first and third.

I would say that Finale has made progress in all of these areas, considerable progress in the past several years. What is a software company to do?..... If they perfect the software next month, there will never be anymore upgrades and their income will depend upon new sales and whatever ventures they also get involved in (online music sales, etc.)

I believe that they can make a substantial improvement in the software this year, among other things, solve the most spoken about shortcomings mentioned repeatedly on this forum..... and still have the ability to upgrade for a few years to come.

But they need to work to keep the new sales alive,.... again, there may not be that much to upgrade in 2004, 2005, etc. And in order make new sales robust, they may need to concentrate on the "ease of entry" concern. (I think that note entry in Finale is easy, but there is this "Urban Legend" that the competitor's product is all-so-easy.)

David
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TechSupport
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Total Posts : 432
 
   Posted 5/25/2003 5:17 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.

>Where Finale gets clobbered is
>on the [broken record warning]
>question of things that do not
>work - accidental spacing in
>layers etc., Perhaps a more
>positive feeling would be
>generated if Coda told the
>forum why such things are
>apparently so difficult to put
>right, and advise the forum of
>progress and when they expect
>that these things will be
>fixed.

We try to include features that will cause the most people to upgrade. Generally speaking this is mutually beneficial, but it does mean that bug fixes or features that are not requested as often as others have a smaller chance of making it in. But despite this fact, we do give requests that are common on this forum a much greater weight in our decisions than other requests that are sent to us. Accidental spacing between layers is something I almost never hear about in e-mails or on the phones, but it is always considered more heavily than a lot of feature requests which actually receive more bids.

Unfortunately, we can't share guesses about when a new feature will be available. If you take accidental spacing for example, that feature had been on our list in years past but had to be dropped for various reasons. If we had let people know we expected to have it, we would have been in a lot of trouble when it didn't make it in. The joys of being a publicly traded company.
>
>It would be interesting to
>know what mix of customers you
>have - i.e. what proportion
>are new purchasers as opposed
>to upgraders.

I can't answer this, but I can say that both sources are critical for our success.

>If all the known
>bugs were fixed, the great
>proportion of existing users
>would upgrade and no doubt
>give positive feedback on the
>forum which could help to sell
>Finale to new users.

Actually, this hasn't been my impression based on the thousands of customers I've spoken to. An overwhelming majority (I'd guess over 95%) of these people say they'll be interested in upgrading only if we include some new feature. There is a difference in the wish lists of our advanced users who spend time on these forums and the typical users who contact us via e-mail and phone.

But you are correct. Good feedback on this forum is valuable, and we weigh the requests here accordingly.

>As it is,
>each upgrade appears to
>address just one or two small
>areas to entice the brave few
>to upgrade every year or two
>years - perhaps that is the
>business plan - Coda know that
>if all the bugs are ironed out
>in the next upgrade, no-one
>will upgrade after that for a
>few years until some major
>innovations are incorporated-
>and their annual income from
>existing users would drop
>dramatically.

No, that's not the business plan. It's just that we know if we had one release where nothing was done except bug fixes, very few people would upgrade for that release, and we'd have nothing new to entice new customers.

>
>Call me cynical.. ..go on.
>
No, you're not cynical. But you do have a very different perspective on all of this because of the information that's visible to you. If there's one point I can drive home here it should be this: Coda is working as hard as it can to please as many people as possible so that future versions of our software will be popular. That's our business plan.


Tyler
Coda Tech

Note: These on-line forums are intended for the exchange of ideas among the users of MakeMusic products. If you'd like individual help from our technical support staff, please contact them directly via email at [email protected] or [email protected] or call 952-937-9703.
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