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Peter West
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   Posted 5/27/2004 5:46 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I agree with Dick on this one, however, be sure you don't have select partial measures selected in the edit menu. That could be the cause of the "screw-up"


Peter
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Dick Brodfuehrer
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   Posted 5/27/2004 3:57 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Ron B. said...
And, I've never used the "control shift" method. I have no idea what it is.
Ron,


You really should try it.  Not only is it more error-free, but it is more efficient --- fewer mouse clicks and keystrokes to get a copy job done.  I'll bet that you will never go back to the Edit Menu replace commands except when copying between files.


My first response to this post explains how to do it.


(Currently using: Finale 2003a, Windows 98-2e, TGTools 2.25, and The Glenlivet when I can afford it.)
 
It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing!
 

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Diminution
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   Posted 5/26/2004 10:58 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Ron, I don't know what it is, but I used to do the EXACT same thing you do, and it always screwed my score up!
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Peter Thomsen
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   Posted 5/26/2004 7:17 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Ron B. said...
...If I want to copy say, 4 measures, I highlight them with the Mass Edit tool. If the target measure is on the screen, I simply drag to it, making sure the beginning of the rectangle is in the measure I want to start in. I will get a prompt asking me how many times I want to do this and click okay. Doesn't matter if the target is in another staff or not, as long I can see the first measure on the screen...

...And, I've never used the "control shift" method. I have no idea what it is...



The trick with Ctrl-Shift-click is the same as dragging the selected region to the target measure.

The [Ctrl-Shift-click on the target measure trick] works, even if the selected region isn't visible on the screen.
I always use Ctrl-Shift-click instead of dragging, partly because of this fact, and partly because my mouse finger gets tired when I do a lot of dragging.

Peter
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Ron.
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   Posted 5/26/2004 6:32 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Given all the "thou shalt nots" above I'm a little hesitant here, but here's what I do--and I've never had a problem with it.
If I want to copy say, 4 measures, I highlight them with the Mass Edit tool. If the target measure is on the screen, I simply drag to it, making sure the beginning of the rectangle is in the measure I want to start in. I will get a prompt asking me how many times I want to do this and click okay. Doesn't matter if the target is in another staff or not, as long I can see the first measure on the screen.
If the target is not on the screen, I highlight the measures I want to copy, then under "Edit" I click "Copy". I then go to where I want the new material to be. If there is already material there in other staves I have to be careful. I select the same number of measures as the original material. Back to "Edit" and click "Replace Entries."  If there is no other material there in other staves, I need to only select the first measure where I want the copied material to go and then I can select "Insert."
Maybe I should mention I always work in "scroll" view until ready to do the final document layout. And, I've never used the "control shift" method. I have no idea what it is. Like I said earlier, I do a LOT of copying of material and my "method" works for me every time.


Ron

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Diminution
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   Posted 5/26/2004 10:06 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Ron: what do you do EXACTLY? I want to know how to use these tools without it moving the rest of the material in a given instrumental line over by the number of measures containg the copied or inserted material. Please advise.
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Ron.
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   Posted 5/26/2004 6:36 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I use copy-replace and copy-insert all the time. I mean that literally--as I write a lot of polyphonic music where I am often copying motifs from one part to another or to later in the score. I have never ONCE had a single problem with this. It works exactly as the manual says it should. I've been folloiwng this discussion in complete bafflement as I've never seen anything like the problems being discussed here. Don't know what's different between my system from yours, but it might be helpful to find out.


Ron

Finale 2004b, XP Pro // P4, 2.6 GHz, 2 Gb RAM, SB Audigy
Composer of both sacred and secular music, and the intermingling of the two spheres.
 
"If you don't do it during this lifetime, then when are you going to do it?"

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Campfiredan
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   Posted 5/25/2004 7:55 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Ackkk - and thank you fellow forumers. I have been unable to do a simple thing like copying a dozen measures and pasting them in later in the same file. Not only do Copy/Insert and Copy/Replace screw up measures but they also (sometimes) completely obliterate *all* the lyrics - even with "Copy Everything" selected in Mass Edit. With the Control/Shift Click method it finally worked, lyrics and all. So why in the name of all that is musical does the manual tell you to use the Insert-Replace selections in the edit menu? In any other program I'd call that a rather significant bug. If not a bug it is at least a remarkably poorly written manual (given that it just took one paragraph in this forum to provide the correct instruction).
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Dick Brodfuehrer
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   Posted 5/19/2004 4:50 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Can't help you with that one - not using 2004.


(Currently using: Finale 2003a, Windows 98-2e, TGTools 2.25, and The Glenlivet when I can afford it.)
 
It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing!
 

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Diminution
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   Posted 5/18/2004 7:57 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Thanks guys. Could I ask for you expertise in another matter? I've had a file which wont save correctly to audio for a while now(it leaves out the last minute). I sent the file to support several days ago but have not yet received a response. Interestingly enough, when I added some additional material in the score before the part that gets cut, "save to audio" saved EXACTLY the same duration of music, 14:54, excluding everything after that length of time, but including the new stuff. That seems to me to indicate that there is nothing wrong with the material that was originally cut from the score itself, but that some artificial limit has been imposed on the audio file size, no? This is the only file I have which is 150 mb in size, and I think Finale is clipping the file at this 150 mb limit. Any ideas?
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Dick Brodfuehrer
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   Posted 5/18/2004 6:53 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I agree with Oompah. Copying with partial measures selected can be unpredictable, so I never do it unless I absolutely have to.


(Currently using: Finale 2003a, Windows 98-2e, TGTools 2.25, and The Glenlivet when I can afford it.)
 
It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing!
 

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Oompah
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   Posted 5/18/2004 6:06 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I might also suggest that copy/paste operations are a lot more predictable when you disable partial measure selection. With partial measure selection, even if it *looks* like you have a full measure selected, Finale treats it as a note stream independent of measures, and that can give you unexpected results.

As for your undo question, the real problem is dependencies between edits. Imagine you are building a house -- you might want to fix some problems in the kitchen plumbing that you did a week ago, without affecting the sheetrock in the living room you did yesterday. Makes sense. But what if you wanted to remove the studs without touching the sheetrock they are nailed to? That doesn't make sense, of course. But interactions between edits in a music document (or, as you point out, Photoshop), can be quite subtle, and it is often extremely difficult to say whether undoing one thing will mess up a later thing.
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Diminution
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   Posted 5/15/2004 5:22 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Thank you.
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Dick Brodfuehrer
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   Posted 5/15/2004 4:25 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Your first question --- I assume this is a programming problem, the sort of thing that wouldn't be practical even if possible.

Your second question --- There is an option in Program Options > Edit > Undo Past Save that will allow you to undo even after you have saved the file. But once you have exited/closed the file you are stuck with it. You can use the Mass Mover/Edit Tool > Clear Items to delete selected items --- if what you want to get rid of is one of the things you can select. For your example, you can clear slurs (Smart Shapes) but not ties as far as I know.


(Currently using: Finale 2003a, Windows 98-2e, TGTools 2.25, and The Glenlivet when I can afford it.)
 
It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing!
 

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Diminution
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   Posted 5/15/2004 4:01 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
No, that makes perfect sense, and sounds like a relatively painless solution. Can I bother you with one more question? Why isn't there the possibility of undoing a specific step without undoing everything before it? I realize this is not particular to Finale, as I have encountered the same thing in Paintshop Pro. Also: say you already managed to create some "extra work" for yourself, and you are presented with the oddest configuration of musical ties stretching across bars that you could imagine. Is it possible to undo this once you've saved and closed(okay, that's two questions!!) Thanks again for unraveling a mystery that has plagued me for some time now!
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Dick Brodfuehrer
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   Posted 5/15/2004 3:45 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Diminution said...
hey C.O.G.: Thank you ,thankyou, thank you!!!! That solved the mystery completely!!! It works fine, and I will never again have to worry about destroying my entire score when I need to perform the oft-needed copying function!! If you could clarify one point: IF I use the edit menu to copy/replace/insert from one score to another, will it possibly screw up the score, or was it intended for this purpose and not? Thanks again!!
 
Happy to have helped.
 
I'm afraid it can also "screw up" when copying from one score to another. I put that in quotes, because it doesn't actually mess things up.  It does create some extra work.
 
You have two choices when going to another score; Copy > Replace or Copy > Insert.  I always use the Insert route because more of the data is copied.  Copy > Replace always leaves stuff out.  However, when you use Insert it does as it says --- Inserts --- thus moving everything else back to allow for the new inserted measures.  So, I always insert the stuff after the last measure of the score with anything in it.  Then I use the CTRL/SHIFT-CLICK method to move it ahead to where it belongs.
 
If I have totally confused you I have done my job.  :p


(Currently using: Finale 2003a, Windows 98-2e, TGTools 2.25, and The Glenlivet when I can afford it.)
 
It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing!
 

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Diminution
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   Posted 5/15/2004 3:21 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
hey C.O.G.: Thank you ,thankyou, thank you!!!! That solved the mystery completely!!! It works fine, and I will never again have to worry about destroying my entire score when I need to perform the oft-needed copying function!! If you could clarify one point: IF I use the edit menu to copy/replace/insert from one score to another, will it possibly screw up the score, or was it intended for this purpose and not? Thanks again!!
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Dick Brodfuehrer
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   Posted 5/15/2004 3:11 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
You should NEVER use the Copy - Insert - Replace commands in the Edit menu when copying within the same file. Those should be used ONLY when copying from one file to another.

When copying within the same file ALWAYS use the CTRL/SHIFT-CLICK method as follows:

In the Mass Edit menu select the area you want to copy. From the drop-down menu select what you want included in the copy (i.e. everything or just certain note or measure attached items.) Now you have selected the area you want to copy from and which items you want to copy. Next, go to the area you want to copy to, press CTRL and SHIFT and while holding them down left-click the mouse on the first measure of where you want to copy to. Depending on where you are copying from and to, you may be asked how many times you want it copied.

That's all there is to it. Hope that helps.
 
p.s. I just noticed that you referred to Mass Mover.  In Finale 2003 and 2004 it is called Mass Edit, but it's the same tool.


(Currently using: Finale 2003a, Windows 98-2e, TGTools 2.25, and The Glenlivet when I can afford it.)
 
It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing!
 

Post Edited (Dick Brodfuehrer) : 5/15/2004 7:14:29 PM GMT

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Diminution
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   Posted 5/15/2004 12:34 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Hey Greator,
Thanks a lot. However. I did have "copy and replace checked, and it still moved the material over in the score. It SEEMED to work when I chose "replace entries" instead of "insert", but it screwed up with the "replace entries" choice once before, so I'm not too hopeful that it will work fine in all cases. Thanks, though, the thread was helpful!
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Greator_SST
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   Posted 5/15/2004 11:07 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
...hey Dim,


Be VERY thankful that you're browsing these forums 'cause I don't believe you would ever have figured it :)  I put up with not knowing how to do this for years.  A couple of week ago, I posted a similar question, and Tim Rowland (may he be blessed beyond measure :) explained it really well.


Two critical things (explained in the thread).  Make sure copy and replace is checked and that you pay attention to which active layer is highlighted.


Hope this is what you were looking for!


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Diminution
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   Posted 5/15/2004 10:29 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Could someone PLEASE explain to me how to use copy/insert so that Finale doesn't screw up my entire score by moving everything in the chosen voice over by the inserted number of measures? All I want to do is select a section of music in one voice, choose "copy", select the area in the other voice where I want to move these notes to, select "insert", and have the program copy from one place to another. I can't do this without Finale inserting a ton of blank space after the insertion, creating a nightmare of un-synctedness. This has already caused me much time and effort in redoing work with simple entry, as the first time it happened, I wasn't aware of it until I had done a lot of work, and I had to copy the changes to another file, then undo everything and hand-enter the notes from the copy. By the way, shouldn't one be able to undo a particular action without having to undo every %$#%$#[email protected] action that came before it? What's up with that? I must be missing something obvious, right? Please tell me I'm missing something obvious!
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