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Leo628
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   Posted 11/6/2004 6:01 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Hi! First-timer here! This is a cool site...I hope! System: Windows XP. Notation Software: I changed from PrintMusic 2002 to 2004 a few months ago.
 
Problem: I created a 4-part a cappella arrangement using Speedy Note Entry Tool and MIDI entry (one layer at a time). So, there are 2 layers per staff (treble and bass). When I save the file as .MID and playback from Windows Media Player 10 (RealPlayer does the same thing), the playback is out of sync as if "Play as Recorded" were activated. It is not activated and playback from PrintMusic is fine. Any suggestions where to look for the problem? Sorry I couldn't attached the MIDI for you.
 
Leo628
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Zuill
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   Posted 11/6/2004 9:40 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Try attaching the Printmusic file here. That would at least give us an idea of what you're starting with. We can try creating a MIDI file from that and see what we get.

Zuill


"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
 
Finale 2004b, 2005, Win 2000 or XP

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Leo628
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   Posted 11/7/2004 12:11 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Thanks. Here ya go...attached the PrintMusic file.
 
Leo628

File Attachment :
TaintWhatchaDo-YWIH2KeyofEb.MUS   56KB (application/octet-stream)
This file has been downloaded 285 time(s).
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Zuill
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   Posted 11/7/2004 12:41 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
When Printmusic (or Finale) converts the file to MIDI, it retains the values as entered, despite the way they look on the page. Therefore, you are getting the notes as you entered them. Very simply, in a MIDI sequencing program, you can quantize the notes to even 8ths. That's what I did and it now sounds fine. Do you have a sequencing program in which you can open and quantize the file? Some soundcards come with peripheral programs, including a sequencing program. I use Powertracks. For the money, it is quite good.

Zuill


"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
 
Finale 2004b, 2005, Win 2000 or XP

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Dick Brodfuehrer
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   Posted 11/7/2004 5:46 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Try this. MIDI Tool > Note Durations > (select all with ctrl-a) Set To (zeros)

That should take out all of the duration alterations and make notes as written.


(Currently using: Finale 2003a, Windows XP-Home, TGTools 2.25, and The Glenlivet when I can afford it.)
 
It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing!
 

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Fritz Meissner
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   Posted 11/7/2004 10:57 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I think that the Midi tool Dick refers to is a Finale option - I don't see it in Printmusic unfortunately. The problem is that, in effect, PrintMusic disregards the status of the Play as Recorded setting when writing a midi file - I regard this as a bug and have reported it as such.

My workaround is to not use hyperscribe, and only enter music with simple or speedy entry methods. Since hyperscribe is not generally faster that the other methods once you have fixed up all the errors, this doesn't really worry me, except for the first time when I wasted a lot of time entering a fairly long piece with hyperscribe and then found that it gave me unuseable midi files. The problem also affects music input by scanning, because the "as recorded" data for that is also all over the place so one cannot get a useable midi file out of it, even though the notation looks good.

Another workaround is to turn human playback on - that will cancel out the as recorded durations and change them to what human playback thinks they should be. If you are doing a capella arrangements using choir oohs or aahs, then you are in for an unpleasant surprise with the effect of HP; there is a thread on this that I started a few week back giving details. You might look it up and let me know what you think of the effect, since technical support is telling me that this is just a matter of taste.

Zuill's suggestion looks like a possibility, provided the "as recorded" data is accurate enough to quantize without needing lots of fixing - mine usually does because my keyboard skills are not good.

Fritz

Post Edited (Fritz Meissner) : 11/7/2004 3:03:40 PM GMT

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Playflute
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   Posted 11/7/2004 11:26 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Conserning hyperscibe... it's true that simple and speedy can become very quick... more and more I type in the notes in simple entry with the keypad giving the durations and the letters A-G and arrow to position the caret... The more I go, the less I use the mouse or the Midi keyboard and the more everything goes with the the computer keyboard. Takes time to master but it get's real fast... don't forget you also have the articulations like Accent or staccato, etc.. on any note directly with '*' and metatools, and the expressions like fff, f, p, mf and others with "x" and metatools. These features made the update worthwhile for me.
Concerning the file, both the midi tool note duration to 0 and the HP (set to classical) gave a good result.


 
WinXPHome/F2005/TGTools 
 
 

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Leo628
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   Posted 11/7/2004 12:29 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Zuill, Dick Brodfuehrer, Fritz Meissner and Playflute!

Thank you all for your input. I will try all of the suggestions and let you know if we have success! When I was a MAC user, I used the full version of Finale. I really miss it. But by the time I became a PC user, the lower cost of the PrintMusic was needed. So, it becomes more and more apparent that even for my limited usage for 4-part a cappella arrangements, I still need Finale's full version. I, too, have learned to use the Speedy Note Entry Tool at a speed that likens hyperscribing+editing. And I will certainly limit my entry work to SNE until I can get a full version of Finale. The problems in the midi files aren't worth the aggravation. All of the suggestions sound worthy. Thank you!

Leo628
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Leo628
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   Posted 11/7/2004 12:43 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Dick Brodfuehrer,

Just a comment on a personal note...C.O.G...in "software years" that means you're over 30, right? Ha!

Leo628
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Dick Brodfuehrer
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   Posted 11/7/2004 1:20 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
And then some --- and then some more!


(Currently using: Finale 2003a, Windows XP-Home, TGTools 2.25, and The Glenlivet when I can afford it.)
 
It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing!
 

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Zuill
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   Posted 11/7/2004 5:12 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Dick,

When I applied the MIDI tool method to the file as you described, there were still problems. Specifically, on Set to, did that include Start Time and Stop Time, or one or the other?

Zuill


"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
 
Finale 2004b, 2005, Win 2000 or XP

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Leo628
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   Posted 11/8/2004 1:43 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.

Hey, guys!

I did both things that were available in PrintMusic: turned on Human Playback (Standard) and Quantized to 8th notes. It did the trick as far as the sync is concerned. The only odd thing is that the sound is funky. The volume floats in and out, and notes that are "held" tend to quiver...some of them cut out on the attack of the note. Weird! I think Fritz was absolutely correct when he called this a "bug". It is certainly acting unpredictably. So, send money...I need Finale's full version! Ha!

By the way, Midi Tool is not available in PrintMusic...as Fritz mentioned. Thank you all again. If you have any other suggestions, I'm listening.

Leo628

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Fritz Meissner
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   Posted 11/8/2004 2:30 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
If you agree with me that this is a problem then please send an e-mail to [email protected] describing the exact problem as you see it - the more reports they get, the more likely they are to correct it sometime.

Fritz
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Dick Brodfuehrer
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   Posted 11/8/2004 7:46 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Zuill said...
Dick,

When I applied the MIDI tool method to the file as you described, there were still problems. Specifically, on Set to, did that include Start Time and Stop Time, or one or the other?

Zuill

 
Sorry to be so slow to get back --- my cable service has been out.
 
Both set to zero.  With both set to zero all notes should start "on the beat" so to speak, and hold for full 100% value.  All early and late beginnings and endings should be corrected.


(Currently using: Finale 2003a, Windows XP-Home, TGTools 2.25, and The Glenlivet when I can afford it.)
 
It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing!
 

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Zuill
"The Troll"



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   Posted 11/8/2004 8:32 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Well, he must have really wandered from the beat, because, while it corrected some of the problems, some remained. However, a MIDI file created from his file "as is" was easily quantized in PowerTracks. I wish Finale could do it as easily.

Zuill


"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
 
Finale 2004b, 2005, Win 2000 or XP

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Leo628
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   Posted 11/9/2004 2:32 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I contacted my friend, Joe Liles, who suggested the following:

Select the Mass Edit Tool > Ctrl A to select all the measures > drop-down menu from MASS EDIT > Clear Items > Only Selected Items/Entries > and then select Performance Data . OK . . . this erases the performance data and a clean playback should follow.

Again, this only seems to be available in Finale FV. But it did make a better sounding midi file. It had a few bugs in it, but sounded much better.

Leo628
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Zuill
"The Troll"



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   Posted 11/9/2004 10:51 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Seems like I knew that at one time, but forgot. Thanks for persuing this and for reporting the technique. We all need a refresher now and then. It works like a charm.

Zuill


"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
 
Finale 2004b, 2005, Win 2000 or XP

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Leo628
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   Posted 11/9/2004 5:44 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
In closing, thank you all for suggestions. It was a learning experience and taught me one thing very clearly...I must get the full version of Finale!

Leo628
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