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Jetcopy
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   Posted 8/4/2016 2:08 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I don't know diddly about the technical aspect of any of this, but suffice to say that there are hundreds of user forums in existence right now that allow the uploading and posting of:
files
images
youtube videos
soundcloud and other audio formats.
etc....

While I appreciate Malcolm's input and description of the problem, it seems logical to me that whatever type of forum or customer portal is to be put in place in the future, it should offer more options than we currently have, not less.

JT


Retina Macbook Pro OSX 10.9.5, 2.5GHz Intel Core i7, 16 GB RAM, El Capitan on separate drive

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KennethKen
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Total Posts : 2570
 
   Posted 8/4/2016 3:12 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Ralph L. Bowers Jr. said...
...suffice it to say ease of posting files for others to view and trouble shoot is what we need.


This is especially important if MM's customer support is going to continue to direct users to these community boards for help with certain problems (as they have done historically with the forum). Now, not only does the user with the problem have to use a 3rd party account but the users who might have offered to help have to visit those sites. Are only trusted links going to be allowed? I don't know what they use in other countries other than Dropbox and Google and am a bit concerned about going to an unfamiliar web address just to see a jpeg of someone's problem. This would be my initial concern and feedback.

Then there's the structure-less solicitation of feature requests and votes that won't be conducive to quick comprehension, analysis or transparency. That's my 2nd concern.

Heck, I don't even know if the feedback for the Community Help Center should be submitted to the Feature Request board there or on these forums?


 
Windows 7 Pro (64 bit), Finale 2014, Core i7 [email protected], 8GB Ram
Brass music, Woodwind Music, Concert Band Music, CDs, etc.

Post Edited (KennethKen) : 8/4/2016 3:15:07 PM (GMT-5)

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Ron.
Composer



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Date Joined Mar 2003
Total Posts : 8828
 
   Posted 8/4/2016 3:27 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Jetcopy said...
I don't know diddly about the technical aspect of any of this, but suffice to say that there are hundreds of user forums in existence right now that allow the uploading and posting of:
files
images
youtube videos
soundcloud and other audio formats.
etc....

While I appreciate Malcolm's input and description of the problem, it seems logical to me that whatever type of forum or customer portal is to be put in place in the future, it should offer more options than we currently have, not less.

JT


Including out little www.composeforums.com--which is powered by a shareware program of which I considered dozens (all allow uploads) before settling on Simple Machines. Actually to write code from scratch for a forum is not that big a deal. No reason that MM couldn't write their own.


Finale 2014.5

GPO5, JaBB3, GIO, COMB2, GWI, GIFF, Steinway Basic.

Windows 7; 10 GB RAM.

www.composeforums.com

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Mike Rosen
himself



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Total Posts : 14146
 
   Posted 8/4/2016 3:54 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Well, so far the vote against the new paradigm seems to be US: many, MM: none.

I said it in another thread, and I'll say it again, here: Stop mucking about with all the flashy social media stuff, get real (Customer Success Agents? Oh, please...) and work on giving us a product that works well for everyone.

Improvements are good, but how about fixing long term bugs and addressing requests that WE make, rather than deciding in your focus groups/ouiji boards what we want?



Mike Rosen
www.specialmillwork.com

Bass with Choir of the Sound www.choirofthesound.org
Volunteer copyist (The Gang of Twelve) for the Barbershop Harmony Society
FINALE TIPS at www.specialmillwork.com/finale-tips-and-tricks/index.html

Finale 2014.5 on El Capitan
Simple Entry, QWERTY keyboard, numberpad. That's my system, and I'm stickin' to it.

"As a musician, he's a damn fine woodworker."

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Motet
Isorhythmic



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Total Posts : 12849
 
   Posted 8/4/2016 5:07 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Ron. said...
Actually to write code from scratch for a forum is not that big a deal. No reason that MM couldn't write their own.

As someone who used to develop and sell forums software (albeit with more features than are discussed here), I think you underestimate the problem. In any case, no reason for MM to spend their time on that. (What you have at composeforums seems fine, but sounds like Zendesk provides more than just the forums.)

Malcolm, could the company at least provide a separate place to upload files? It my not be as convenient as something integrated into Zendesk, but at least that would guarantee that links would not break at a later date.


Finale 2014.5, 2011b, 2005, TGTools
Windows 7, MIDI input
Finale Transposition Chart

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Malcolm M.
MakeMusic Customer Success



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Total Posts : 17
 
   Posted 8/4/2016 6:09 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Thanks again for all of your suggestions and discussion about the new Help Center. We realize that sharing files for meaningful discussion is really important for you all, and in the spirit of transparency we'll be looking into additional options for sharing files within Zendesk. One caveat, though: I couldn't‒in good conscience‒make any specific promises of what, or when, or if that'll become a reality. Keep your fingers crossed though, because we're certainly doing the same and hope to be able to bring you good news.


Malcolm M.
Customer Success Manager
MakeMusic, Inc.


These online forums are intended for the exchange of ideas among the users of MakeMusic products. If you'd like individual help from our technical support staff, please contact us directly at www.finalemusic.com/support/contact-us/.

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johnmouse
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   Posted 8/5/2016 6:00 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
With its limitations, I'm afraid Zendesk will never find nirvana. I realize MM is trying to save money, but improper support (remember that phrase "customer support?") can backfire.


John

Finale 2012/2014 (Well, it's installed.)
M-Audio KeyRig 49
Desktop: Windows 8.1/i5 Core/8 Gig RAM
Laptop: Windows 7/i3 Core/6 Gig RAM

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Ron.
Composer



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Total Posts : 8828
 
   Posted 8/5/2016 7:34 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
This brand new "help" centre doesn't appear to work any better than the out-dated methods: i.e., posting here or opening a problem ticket, judging by the non-responses from MM staff to posted problems. So, what's the point?


Finale 2014.5

GPO5, JaBB3, GIO, COMB2, GWI, GIFF, Steinway Basic.

Windows 7; 10 GB RAM.

www.composeforums.com

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gogreen
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   Posted 8/5/2016 7:40 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Count me in on agreeing that the new forum needs its own upload option. I am a member and participant in some 31 Internet forums on a wide range of topics. Very few of them require uploads to different sites, and I post far more in those sites that allow uploads than I do in sites that require third-party sites for uploading images and files.

What about the Garritan forum? Does the new forum include Garritan questions, or will Garritan get its own forum? What about MM's current Garritan forum?


Arthur J. Michaels

/www.facebook.com/composerarthurjmichaels

Finale 2000, 2001, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2011b.r2, 2014d, 2014.5 (currently using 2014.5)
Core i7 860 @ 2.80 GHz, 8.0 GB RAM, Windows 10 Home x64
Garritan COMB2, GPO4, GPO5, Aria Player 1.860, Audacity 2.1.2
Dell 2408 WFP, 1920x1200
M-Audio Delta Audiophile 2496
Casio WK-3000
M-Audio AV40 monitors
AKG K-240 Studio headphones
Brother MFC-L2740DW printer

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michelp
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   Posted 8/5/2016 8:48 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
There seem to be 3 separate forums (or is it one, which sorts the contents by topic ?), and Garritan has its own. Follow Support -> Ask a Question, and click on the black rectangle "Garritan" to see "Ask the Community".
Update : that page has now disappeared.
The whole navigation, buttons, etc... is really obscure and needs more logic and more clarity in the terms used
On the main screen, for instance : Community leads to a screen which only has Finale-related links. If you click on "Finale Forum", surprize, you see Finale, Garritan, SmartMusic.
And a "new post" button, before one selects the forum !
A labyrinth !

P.S. : Another button is "Finale Blog : Join the conversation at our blog" (...where dialogue has been closed down for a while).


Michel
Finale 2014.5, 2014d, 2012c (main), 2011c, 2010b, 2009b, MacOsX 10.9.5, Mac Mini Intel Core i7 2,7 Ghz, 16 Go Ram, French azerty kb, Dolet 6. Full TGTools. MOTU Audio Express, 3 monitors.

Post Edited (michelp) : 8/5/2016 9:18:31 AM (GMT-5)

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Zuill
"The Troll"



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   Posted 8/5/2016 10:06 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I still think having separate for a for Win, Mac, etc. is better as when a question is asked, we usually know the basic category of the operating system.

With the new help center, is it required to give necessary specs, or are we still guessing?

Zuill


"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
 
Win 7 64bit, 2011b, 2012c, 2014d, 2014.5 
 
Favorite Forum quote: "Please, everybody, IGNORE THE TROLL!"

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Mike Rosen
himself



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Total Posts : 14146
 
   Posted 8/5/2016 11:04 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
The other Finale forum has a spot to add your system and version right in your ID pane.



Mike Rosen
www.specialmillwork.com

Bass with Choir of the Sound www.choirofthesound.org
Volunteer copyist (The Gang of Twelve) for the Barbershop Harmony Society
FINALE TIPS at www.specialmillwork.com/finale-tips-and-tricks/index.html

Finale 2014.5 on El Capitan
Simple Entry, QWERTY keyboard, numberpad. That's my system, and I'm stickin' to it.

"As a musician, he's a damn fine woodworker."

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Dave Lang
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   Posted 8/5/2016 12:02 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
"Your opinion" is just a check box on a project plan. It has no impact on what is eventually delivered. Welcome to late stage capitalism.

I predict nothing is going to change as a result of the opinions expressed here.

Is it late summer yet or what?


MacBook Pro Retina 15" (late 2013), OSX 10.11.4, Finale 2014.5

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Perotinus
"The ends of the earth have seen it all!"



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Total Posts : 199
 
   Posted 8/5/2016 4:05 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Yes, until the autumn equinox.


Perotinus

Finale 2014.5
Windows 7 Enterprise 64-bit

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Motet
Isorhythmic



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   Posted 8/5/2016 7:01 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
KennethKen said...

I assume that up/down arrow counter on the left is the voting mechanism.

I think it's a "Like" button.

Mike Rosen said...
If it deteriorates to a "how do I..." call center, I suspect that MM will quickly tire of it.


Today's feature request: "How do you create a triplet consisting of a quarter note, then a half note (to cover a duration of two quarter notes)?"


Finale 2014.5, 2011b, 2005, TGTools
Windows 7, MIDI input
Finale Transposition Chart

Post Edited (Motet) : 8/5/2016 7:10:10 PM (GMT-5)

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Perotinus
"The ends of the earth have seen it all!"



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   Posted 8/5/2016 9:42 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Q.E.D. (on the last statement of the prior post). Cf. also post of yesterday, 4:12, 3rd paragraph.


Perotinus

Finale 2014.5
Windows 7 Enterprise 64-bit

Post Edited (Perotinus) : 8/5/2016 9:52:00 PM (GMT-5)

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HaraldS
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   Posted 8/8/2016 1:46 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Motet said...
Today's feature request: "How do you create a triplet consisting of a quarter note, then a half note (to cover a duration of two quarter notes)?"


Yes, that's definitely misplaced. But you'll never have a new forum in which everyone understands the structure instantly and uses it correctly. I used to be a moderator (one of more than 40) in germany's largest music forum for 4 years and had all sorts of misplaced questions to be moved to the correct area. A forum's attractivity and readability depends on the positive attitude of its users and the staff's (admin, moderators) activity. Let's see how that turns out for the new help centre.

In general, I'm glad that at least something is happening forum-wise...this outdated dotNetBB forum software is a shame for a company producing a professional notation program like Finale. Fellow user OCTO shows with a simple phpBB default-theme installation and personal involvement how to run music notation forum with highly interesting discussions.

Harald


Finale 3.0-2014.5, german edition, Windows 7
lots of hardware synths/keys, Cubase 7 / trombonist, pianist, conductor / Recklinghausen, Germany

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gogreen
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Total Posts : 1618
 
   Posted 8/10/2016 8:12 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
HaraldS said...
Fellow user OCTO shows with a simple phpBB default-theme installation and personal involvement how to run music notation forum with highly interesting discussions.

I agree. I can't think of any other forum of which I'm a member that doesn't divide its topics into discussion areas. At least Mac and Windows divisions would be helpful (Zuill suggested that earlier), and the Feature Requests item can also be incorporated into the MM Community Forum. It would also be helpful and save much time to see a user's operating system and Finale libraries as part of the user's ID at a glance. Still, a new forum with up-to-date software is a step in the right direction.


Arthur J. Michaels

/www.facebook.com/composerarthurjmichaels

Finale 2000, 2001, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2011b.r2, 2014d, 2014.5 (currently using 2014.5)
Core i7 860 @ 2.80 GHz, 8.0 GB RAM, Windows 10 Home x64
Garritan COMB2, GPO4, GPO5, Aria Player 1.860, Audacity 2.1.2
Dell 2408 WFP, 1920x1200
M-Audio Delta Audiophile 2496
Casio WK-3000
M-Audio AV40 monitors
AKG K-240 Studio headphones
Brother MFC-L2740DW printer

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Ralph L. Bowers Jr.
Polymathist



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   Posted 8/10/2016 9:25 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Best to Worst:
I'd rather have a Lexus as opposed to a Fiat.
What they have given us at present with this new user forum is a Fiat which of course is one step up from a Yugo so I guess all is well with the world.


Finale 2010b, 2011b, 2012c, 2014d, 2014.5 TGTools Pro, Patterson plugins, JW plugins (current for each Finale Instalation)
Sibelius 6.2, 7.1.3, 7.5.1, 8.4.1, Write Score Sound Sets, TMT Publisher Bundle Plugins, Bob Zawalich plugins, Dolet 6.6
Print Music 2004, 2010a, 2011a, 2014a
Progression, Progression 2, Progression 3, Notion 4, [Notion 5, (bought but not installed)update finally installed]
Pro Tools 9.5, Reaper
Kontakt 5
GPO4, GPO5, World Instruments
SmartScore X Pro, SmartScore X2 Pro, PhotoScore Ultimate 6 & 7 & 8.04 ( 7 has some utility----best of those available, 8 has some issues that need fixing)
M-Audio "Oxygen 25" Midi input keyboard (recent addition 2014)
Systems (5) // Windows XP Pro (32bit), [email protected] Windows 7 Pro, 8.1 Pro, Windows 10 64 bit, 4GB - 16GB RAM
Paper & Pencil

BMus, MM (Musicology)

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Mike Rosen
himself



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Total Posts : 14146
 
   Posted 8/10/2016 10:21 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
If they decide to split it into subforums, I would suggest Notation and Playback as a good split.



Mike Rosen
www.specialmillwork.com

Bass with Choir of the Sound www.choirofthesound.org
Volunteer copyist (The Gang of Twelve) for the Barbershop Harmony Society
FINALE TIPS at www.specialmillwork.com/finale-tips-and-tricks/index.html

Finale 2014.5 on El Capitan
Simple Entry, QWERTY keyboard, numberpad. That's my system, and I'm stickin' to it.

"As a musician, he's a damn fine woodworker."

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Derrek
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   Posted 8/10/2016 11:56 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I just want to see when I open the contents screen:
1. Which threads have I not yet read
2. Which threads have new comments added (with a shortcut button to those messages on each thread)
3. A vertically more compressed listing so I can see more threads per page

The pre-release Dorico Board at Steinberg has all of these things. Surely Steinberg isn't using archaic software. I generally find messages that question MM's supposed thinking distasteful, but these new BBS formats--and stripping comments from their blog pages--seems to be putting MM's convenience ahead of users', a bad sign.

PLEASE, MM, rethink these changes, especially this choice of BBS software.


Finale 2014d - Windows 7
GPO 4, JABB 3, World Instruments
TG Tools Full, (Sonar Platinum)

“Outside of a dog, a book is a man’s best friend. Inside of a dog it’s too dark to read.” — Groucho Marx

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Motet
Isorhythmic



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   Posted 8/10/2016 12:39 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
It is not very usable, and the fact that they chose this is worrisome.

I know they are busy with the impending next version, but it doesn't look like MM has participated at all in the Help Center except for a (possibly staged?) exchange the first day. I think I'll put my efforts here instead for now.


Finale 2014.5, 2011b, 2005, TGTools
Windows 7, MIDI input
Finale Transposition Chart

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Mike Rosen
himself



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Total Posts : 14146
 
   Posted 8/10/2016 3:15 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I agree. I don't have the time to go to other forums (or FaceBook, or Twitter.)

If it's not here, I guess I'll have to miss it.



Mike Rosen
www.specialmillwork.com

Bass with Choir of the Sound www.choirofthesound.org
Volunteer copyist (The Gang of Twelve) for the Barbershop Harmony Society
FINALE TIPS at www.specialmillwork.com/finale-tips-and-tricks/index.html

Finale 2014.5 on El Capitan
Simple Entry, QWERTY keyboard, numberpad. That's my system, and I'm stickin' to it.

"As a musician, he's a damn fine woodworker."

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N. Grossingink
Registered Member



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   Posted 8/15/2016 10:05 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I'm wondering…

Is there any interest at all among the active members of this forum in following or participating in these new forums? I see just a handful of familiar names popping up.

And sadly, there are many, many questions that have been left unanswered. Including Ron Brown, who has been waiting for more than a week now.

N.


OSX Mavericks 10.9.5
Finale 2011c, 2012c for production work

OSX El Capitan 10.11.6
Finale 2014.5

TgTools, Patterson Plugins, JW Change and Staff Polyphony, QuicKeys 4
Mac Mini 2.4 Ghz Intel, 8GB RAM
New Belgium Fat Tire Ale

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Mike Rosen
himself



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Total Posts : 14146
 
   Posted 8/15/2016 10:14 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I've been over there once or twice, mostly out of boredom.



Mike Rosen
www.specialmillwork.com

Bass with Choir of the Sound www.choirofthesound.org
Volunteer copyist (The Gang of Twelve) for the Barbershop Harmony Society
FINALE TIPS at www.specialmillwork.com/finale-tips-and-tricks/index.html

Finale 2014.5 on El Capitan
Simple Entry, QWERTY keyboard, numberpad. That's my system, and I'm stickin' to it.

"As a musician, he's a damn fine woodworker."

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