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Charles Lawrence
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   Posted 11/7/2016 11:52 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Ron. said...
I am genuinely puzzled by this. After what Zuill posted, I opened a new document with a single blank staff and went to the Aria player where I selected a brass ensemble. Instruments loaded into channels. Back to my document, still only one blank staff--which is all that the score manager shows as well. That has always been my experience with Aria ensembles, so I have never seen a use for them.

I'm with Ron on this one.  The only way I can see that it will work is to set all the instrument devices in the Score Manager to Aria Player, then within Aria Player, load a predefined ensemble.  Then playback within Finale will reflect the Aria Player loaded ensemble.  Am I missing something?
 


"Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about!"

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Zuill
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   Posted 11/7/2016 12:46 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I know that the Score Manager doesn't reflect the changes. But sometimes one wants to test different sounds for certain ensembles, and this gives a quick way to run the tests. Also, effects are saved with ensembles, so your ensemble could match the Score manager sounds, but have a preset reverb you like and loading the ensemble loads the effect setting.

So, there are more reasons to consider loading ensembles as a friend. I think work flow and personal taste are involved. It's not necessary to have the option, but for me, it has its upside.

Zuill


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Credo
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   Posted 11/7/2016 1:09 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Charles Lawrence said...
Ron. said...

I am genuinely puzzled by this. After what Zuill posted, I opened a new document with a single blank staff and went to the Aria player where I selected a brass ensemble. Instruments loaded into channels. Back to my document, still only one blank staff--which is all that the score manager shows as well. That has always been my experience with Aria ensembles, so I have never seen a use for them.

I'm with Ron on this one. The only way I can see that it will work is to set all the instrument devices in the Score Manager to Aria Player, then within Aria Player, load a predefined ensemble. Then playback within Finale will reflect the Aria Player loaded ensemble. Am I missing something?


This is correct with staves that are registered in the Score Manager.

Sometimes we want to 'layer up' instruments to get a fuller sound. You can 'build your own sections' with ARIA.

Example 1:
Imagine you've let the score manager do its thing and it's assigned a bunch of default solo or section instruments to 'single slots' in ARIA. You decide you want a bigger sounding orchestra, so you open ARIA and 'double up' parts by assigning 'similar instruments' to the 'same channel' in ARIA so they play in unison. If you take a look at the ARIA player, and click on the 'channel number' of a slot, you'll discover that it allows you to CHANGE that channel. So, if you set several slots to the same channel, they'll all play in unison together.

This is precisely why GPO libraries have the 'player 1, 2, 3, and 'overlay' patches at your disposal. You can go about building the 'size and tonal color' of your overall ensemble sections.

ARIA Ensemble presets can help you establish and save your favorite 'layered' instrument sections.

Sometimes we just want a ton of playing styles and articulations. Such instrument assignments can be made in plguins that are outside of Score Manager's jurisdiction.

Example 2:
Imagine you'd like to have multiple variation of 'arco' violin bowing, a couple of different spiccato/staccato attacks, and finally a tweaked out 'layered' marcato sound (layered meaning you've combined 2 or more instruments set to the same channel in ARIA so they play back together). GPO5 has some nice string articulations in the Orchestral Strings section, but.....to get much use out of them that sounds natural/musical they're going to need serious tweaking in order to fit the 'tempo' and 'style' of your musical passages...plus for simpler repetitive passages you'll probably want some 'round robin' like variations of your most common articulation so it sounds less 'machine gun-like or mechanical'. In one passage you might want tons of AIR on the bow, while in others you want mutes, and on and on. You might want to use martele for 'staccato' notes and let the strokes ring out a bit longer (have a longer release time) than the 'key switched' version of the violin section allows, yet want a ton of portamento for 'some notes', etc. Well, ARIA Ensemble presets are perfect for establishing and preserving such setups and porting them across different Score templates 'as needed'.

You can go about loading these alternate articulations in empty slots, and tell Finale through score marking/text settings, or in Human Playback when to 'hop channels' and use the alternatives in place of the default instrument that was called up by Score Manager. To get these 'channel hops' into a score you've got multiple methods. The most direct being to call up the properties of a score symbol or text pattern and assign it directly. Another being to set up instrument profiles and filters in the Human Playback settings.

Note an interesting little feature of ARIA ensemble presets. You can 'append' an ensemble preset as opposed to 'replacing' everything in ARIA.
Example:
If you click ARIA Slot 1, and load an ensemble with 6 instruments, it will set up channels 1-6. Now click Slot 7 so it is selected, and load a different ensemble. You'll see that it picks up with the 'selected slot' and progresses, while leaving slots 1 - 6 unaffected.

So....yes, they can be very useful in Finale for more advanced purposes; however, it's not something that Finale is going to 'do and manage for you' on its own. You'll have to plan when and how to best load them, and give Finale and or ARIA explicit instructions on how to make use of your intended instrument set-up.

Post Edited (Credo) : 11/7/2016 11:18:03 AM (GMT-6)

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mm
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   Posted 11/7/2016 5:44 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
And answering my original question regarding the missing preset ensembles in ARIA ...
Make Music Support said...
I noticed on the screen shot it says the library that it is reporting is missing is the standard library. You mentioned you only installed the Notation version. To get rid of this message you will need to install both.


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Credo
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   Posted 11/7/2016 8:06 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
mm said...
And answering my original question regarding the missing preset ensembles in ARIA ...
Make Music Support said...
I noticed on the screen shot it says the library that it is reporting is missing is the standard library. You mentioned you only installed the Notation version. To get rid of this message you will need to install both.


I wish I could. I've never seen such behavior before but I install both the notation and regular patches (it's not much extra space since the 'samples are the same for both'.

If a reinstall didn't fix it, I'd drop an support ticket with Makemusic, or maybe open a thread at the Plogue forum.
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mm
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   Posted 11/10/2016 2:03 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Didn't reinstall it. Really don't need the standalone version ever, and I have given up on using these preset ensembles. It's actually really just much simpler to set up a project/ensemble as a template or a basic .musx file to work from. Thanks for all the input.


Finale 3.7 - 2014.5, GPO4/5, Dorico, Cubase, ProTools, ASUS laptop, Intel Core i5, 8GB RAM, WIN 8.1 (64-bit), 18.4'' display, M-Audio Keystation 49 + Mini 32 keyboards

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Ron.
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   Posted 11/10/2016 6:30 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
mm said...
Didn't reinstall it. Really don't need the standalone version ever, and I have given up on using these preset ensembles. It's actually really just much simpler to set up a project/ensemble as a template or a basic .musx file to work from. Thanks for all the input.


100% in agreement. To use the preset ensembles means too much-convoluted patchwork to be able to get any viable use out of them. It is far faster, as you suggest, to set up the ensembles yourself and save them as templates.


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