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Vaughan
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   Posted 8/26/2008 6:50 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Wiggy,

It seems difficult to pinpoint the reason for this anomaly. My rather strong reaction to this error came partly because it occurred on the very first file I tested. Since then I've been able to reproduce it consistently on this particular file but, admittedly, on no other to date. The uneasiness comes from the realisation that I'll have to test every PDF I make in Adobe Reader before sending it off. A note to Joe: you don't need to generate postscript files and convert them to PDF. If you load a PDF in Preview and simply save it, the problems seem to disappear as well. As far as system stability is concerned: I do occasionally reset the print system and rebuild the queues. The problem with the file in question occurred on both my computers in exactly the same way, with different print queues. Saving as PDF/X produced the same unusable PDF. I even spent the better part of two hours trying to delete elements (starting with diacritics!) but was unable to pinpoint the source of the problem. I also wonder why this file only creates defective PDFs in Finale 2009 and not 2008, although I'm trying to be careful about waving the term 'bug' around indiscriminately. After all, what I previously mentioned may also be relevant: similar problems occur occasionally with PDFs that weren't produced by Finale at all. In each case, Preview seems to save the day.


Vaughan Schlepp

OSX.5.4, Finale 2008b
MacPro 6GB, MacBookPro 2GB

Ortelius Publishing, Amsterdam

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Dr. Wiggy
Early music: modern methods



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   Posted 8/26/2008 7:14 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Vaughan Schlepp said...
you don't need to generate postscript files and convert them to PDF.

Save As Postscript still produces better results than Save As PDF, so I recommend using it, regardless of Preview's ability to correct the original error.

Vaughan, out of curiosity, what is your default printer?


Finale 2009, 2Ghz iMac, OS X 10.5.4, M-Audio Audiophile USB
Ancient Groove Music
www.ancientgroove.co.uk

"It's not a perfect world. But I've lost the receipt."

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Vaughan
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   Posted 8/26/2008 8:33 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Wiggy said...
Save As Postscript still produces better results than Save As PDF, so I recommend using it, regardless of Preview's ability to correct the original error.


I'd really like to know what the differences are. Why is PS-PDF better than Save As PDF? I've tried creating both and comparing them and can't find any differences, although my comparisons were only visual, on screen and at high magnification. The file size difference is also interesting. The PS file is generally more than twice as large as the file produced by Save As PDF. The PDF made in Preview from the PS file is less than half the size of that made by Save As PDF. And then there's Save As PDF-X. I'm assuming that this circumvents the Finale print system and addresses part of the MacOS directly. Still, creating my PDF this way didn't solve the problem. By the way, this file's size is about the same as that of the PS file. All kind of confusing...

Wiggy said...
Vaughan, out of curiosity, what is your default printer?


Gee, nobody's ever asked me that before. It's an HP LaserJet P2015dn. blush


Vaughan Schlepp

OSX.5.4, Finale 2008b
MacPro 6GB, MacBookPro 2GB

Ortelius Publishing, Amsterdam

Post Edited (Vaughan Schlepp) : 8/26/2008 7:41:06 AM (GMT-5)

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Dr. Wiggy
Early music: modern methods



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   Posted 8/26/2008 9:11 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
PDF files will tend to be smaller than their equivalent PS file, simply because PS is a text-based language, and PDF converts PS commands, such as "setgray" to a number (tokenising). PDFs can also contain compression built-in.
Save As PDF is a simple and quick conversion of the CoreGraphics Quartz display info into PDF. Quartz is a kind of "Display PDF" anyway, so this is very easy. (Even though Finale still uses old QuickDraw calls in its code.)
However, Save As PS seems to go a different route. Some programs specify the production of their own PS, such as Photoshop, Illustrator, Quark and indeed Finale, when they print, rather than use the built-in OS routines. This is because they require greater control over the PS.
Save As PS calls on these app-specific routines, which is why imported EPS graphics display as high-res vector images when Saved as PS or printed, but appear as low-res screen preview that appears on screen when Saving as PDF.

PDF/X is simply a PDF that conforms to certain standards, set by the printing industry for optimal use in pre-press. This specifies things such as No RGB, No transparency, etc.

As most Finale data is vector, the difference visually is probably negligible. Though there have been some instances where exporting a page as EPS produces an error, but Save As PS does not.


Finale 2009, 2Ghz iMac, OS X 10.5.4, M-Audio Audiophile USB
Ancient Groove Music
www.ancientgroove.co.uk

"It's not a perfect world. But I've lost the receipt."

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Joe Brownlee
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   Posted 8/27/2008 2:05 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
OK, Wiggy, I messed with this and followed your suggestions. Here are the results.

1. Reset the print system with the newest drivers, etc. No dice, same problem.

2. My print queue is a solid Apple laser printer I've been using without problem for some time.

3. Save as PDF-x worked perfectly. Not sure what the difference is between PDF and PDF-x. opened correctly in Preview and in Acrobat. I did not try sending it to a PC, however.

4. I started deleting items. This is a lead sheet with three-part vocals. The staff that causes it to fail has a meter change from 4/4 to 2/4. There are notes tied across the barline across the meter change. If I remove the ties, the PDF comes out fine. Once again, this same file with the same notation works without problem under 2008.

5. Save as Postscript worked for me before. Kind of a pain to make this a two-step process since I print pretty much everything I do in Finale to PDF, but it does work.
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Obiwan Kenobi
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   Posted 8/27/2008 2:17 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Vaughan Schlepp said...

Gee, nobody's ever asked me that before. It's an HP LaserJet P2015dn.
--------------------
OSX.5.4, Finale 2008b
MacPro 6GB, MacBookPro 2GB

My two pence Vaughan:
I suppose you have downloaded this update for Leopard:
www.apple.com/support/downloads/hpprinterdriver11.html
Your PPD's for LJ 2015dn will be 4.3.3.109 after update
Compare with the version you have in the System Information > printers. I think yours would be 4.0.0.xxx or something like that...

New HP PPD's works now fine with AdobeReader 9.0
Note that, when I create a PDF file via the OSX Print dialog box, I do prefer set to "any printer" instead of my printer, in order to be more readable for many users.

Regards
Bruno
Paris-France


G4-1.8Ghz / 1.5Go RAM / OSX 10.4.11
MacBook 2.4Ghz / 4Go RAM / OSX 10.5.4
Finale 2000c - 2003a - 2005b - 2008b
Sibelius 4.1.5
Overture 3.6.1 - 4.10

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Dr. Wiggy
Early music: modern methods



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   Posted 8/27/2008 2:17 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Resetting the print queue is done in Leopard by Ctrl-clicking in the print list in System Preferences > Print.
Just thought I'd mention it as it's quite obscure.


Finale 2009, 2Ghz iMac, OS X 10.5.4, M-Audio Audiophile USB
Ancient Groove Music
www.ancientgroove.co.uk

"It's not a perfect world. But I've lost the receipt."

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kaumann
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   Posted 9/1/2008 8:59 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Nothing helps, tried many things suggested above. It still comes down to file containing diacritics... at least one of them is on every single page of every file.

It is a bug for sure. Sadly the bug reporting system of MM is buggy too *intentionally maybe* , should use Firefox instead of Safari.

For now I found this workaround:
1) print dialog in Finale
2) click PREVIEW button
3) Preview.app opens with the preview of Finale doc, SAVE AS from Preview app, format: PDF.

This omits creating all those .ps files.


hardware: MacBook Pro 15'', 2.4GHz. 4GB RAM, 200GB 7200rpm HD.
software: Finale, TGTools, Wallander Instruments, Motu Symphonic Instrument + Ethno Instrument & Digital Performer, Melodyne cre8, RaySpace, Plogue Bidule, QuicKeys, Kontakt+ more

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Dr. Wiggy
Early music: modern methods



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   Posted 9/1/2008 9:23 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
kaumann said...
Tried many of the things suggested above

OK. Which ones haven't you tried? Bug diagnosis requires that you be methodical!
kaumann said...
It is a bug for sure. Sadly the bug reporting system of MM is buggy too *intentionally maybe* , should use Firefox instead of Safari..

Eh? Are you saying that Safari doesn't work with the Make Music Technical Support website? I have no problems.

kaumann said...

For now I found this workaround:
1) print dialog in Finale
2) click PREVIEW button
3) Preview.app opens with the preview of Finale doc, SAVE AS from Preview app, format: PDF.
This omits creating all those .ps files.

This is exactly the same process as doing Save As PDF!
So the Preview button in the print menu gives you a PDF that works, but Save As PDF does not? That's freaky indeed. Though it does support those who say that re-saving in Preview solves it.
Could you post the Finale file here (or PM it to me), and I'll see if I can make a PDF on my system using Save As PDF. Or post the lyrics, and I'll make a file containing them, and see if I can PDF it.


Finale 2009, 2Ghz iMac, OS X 10.5.4, M-Audio Audiophile USB
Ancient Groove Music
www.ancientgroove.co.uk

"It's not a perfect world. But I've lost the receipt."

Post Edited (Wiggy) : 9/1/2008 8:27:23 AM (GMT-5)

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kaumann
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   Posted 9/1/2008 4:25 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Wiggy said...
kaumann said...

For now I found this workaround:
1) print dialog in Finale
2) click PREVIEW button
3) Preview.app opens with the preview of Finale doc, SAVE AS from Preview app, format: PDF.
This omits creating all those .ps files.

This is exactly the same process as doing Save As PDF!

Well... how can it be?
The process from user's side is different. The result is different.
I do not know OS X internals well. I have no clue what in the process is different but something obviously is.
This is tested now with several files.

(I also PMed wiggy the address of one sample file)


hardware: MacBook Pro 15'', 2.4GHz. 4GB RAM, 200GB 7200rpm HD.
software: Finale, TGTools, Wallander Instruments, Motu Symphonic Instrument + Ethno Instrument & Digital Performer, Melodyne cre8, RaySpace, Plogue Bidule, QuicKeys, Kontakt+ more

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Dr. Wiggy
Early music: modern methods



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   Posted 9/1/2008 5:00 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Hmm.
Kaumann's file does produce a corrupt PDF on my machine. I've since tried doing Save As PDF on one of my files, and I get the same problem. However, I had tried it previously and didn't.

It's hard to say what causing this, but it does look like something syntactically wrong with the page display in Finale.

Have people sent this in to Support? I'll keep an eye on it and do a bit more experimenting.


Finale 2009, 2Ghz iMac, OS X 10.5.4, M-Audio Audiophile USB
Ancient Groove Music
www.ancientgroove.co.uk

"It's not a perfect world. But I've lost the receipt."

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Dr. Wiggy
Early music: modern methods



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   Posted 9/1/2008 5:15 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
UPDATE:
Weird!
I've restarted Finale, and the document that I Saved As PDF before (corruptly) now Saves As PDF perfectly.
Kaumann's document still comes out corrupt though; even on a different paper size; using different fonts; removing diacritics; etc.


Finale 2009, 2Ghz iMac, OS X 10.5.4, M-Audio Audiophile USB
Ancient Groove Music
www.ancientgroove.co.uk

"It's not a perfect world. But I've lost the receipt."

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sugna
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   Posted 11/19/2008 1:20 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Hi there, I've recently upgraded to 2009 and am having the same problem with some of my files when saved as PDFs. I've tried resetting printer queues and so on but to no avail. I've been trying to set up the automatic conversion from postscript to pdf - I've set up folder actions on the appropriate folder and told it to run 'convert - Postscript to PDF.scpt' - a script which was apparently included with Leopard. But when I 'print' a score and parts as postscript from Finale it only converts one of the files and leaves the rest as .ps files. I can't see an appropriate Automator action to try.. Anyone any thoughts?

Many thanks,
Angus
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Dr. Wiggy
Early music: modern methods



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   Posted 11/19/2008 2:17 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Can you be more specific about the problem you have? It may not be identical.

I don't see the "Convert Postscript to PDF" workflow in Automator. Perhaps it's elsewhere. It should be enough to create a Folder Action that opens in Preview and Saves the file to the same location.

You could create a Folder Action that runs a Unix script such as this:
Select "Run Unix script" workflow.
Select the "pass input as arguments" drop down list.

for f in "[email protected]"
do
    pstopdf "$f"
done


Finale 2009a, 2Ghz iMac, OS X 10.5.5, M-Audio Audiophile USB
Ancient Groove Music
www.ancientgroove.co.uk

Post Edited (Wiggy) : 11/19/2008 12:36:43 PM (GMT-6)

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sugna
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   Posted 11/19/2008 2:37 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Main problem is that when I use Print... -> Save as PDF, some of the resultant PDFs won't open correctly in Adobe Reader 8. Specifically, some pages appear blank, and sometimes I get the message "An error exists on the page. Acrobat may not display the page correctly. Please contact the person who created the PDF document to correct the problem', followed by "Token type not recognised." I'm working with Finale 2009 - I've never had the same problems with the same procedure in Finale 2007 (I never owned 2008).

I can't see a 'Convert Postscript to PDF' workflow in Automator either - I did, however, find a _script_ called 'convert - Postscript to PDF.scpt' in [system drive]/Library/scripts/Folder Action scripts - but like I mentioned, this doesn't seem to work very well: when I 'print' a score/parts set in there as .ps files, it only converts one of the files and seems to ignore the rest.


Best,
Angus
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Dr. Wiggy
Early music: modern methods



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   Posted 11/20/2008 6:16 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Have you applied the B update to 2009? There are lots of print changes in both updates.


Finale 2009b, 2Ghz iMac, OS X 10.5.5, M-Audio Audiophile USB
Ancient Groove Music
www.ancientgroove.co.uk

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sugna
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   Posted 11/20/2008 8:10 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Indeed I have - am running 2009b.r3

Many thanks for your help with this.
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Vaughan
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   Posted 11/20/2008 8:32 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Angus,

I have this problem occasionally and I can't find a pattern to it at all. In every case, opening the PDF in Preview and then saving it solves the problem. Nowadays I have to check all my PDFs in Adobe Reader before I send them off. The occasional 'Token Type not recognized' will then show up and I'll know to do the Preview trick. Funny thing is, Preview never has problems showing these PDFs; you have to try them out in Adobe Reader to make sure.

Hope this helps!


Vaughan Schlepp

OSX.5.5, Finale 2009b
MacPro 6GB, MacBookPro 2GB

Ortelius Publishing, Amsterdam

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sugna
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   Posted 11/20/2008 9:31 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Hi Vaughan, thanks for that. I guess I'll use the Preview workaround for now. It's a bit of a PITA though when one's dealing with lots of scores and lots of parts in a project and time is tight!

Best,
Angus
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gracenote
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   Posted 11/20/2008 2:28 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Philip. said...
Wiggy, the PDF guru:

Do you have problems with Cocoa Booklet crashing regularly? It crashes for me quite often (approx. every fourth or fifth booklet I create), and while it is quick to re-launch it, I wonder if I'm doing something wrong.

10.5.4 Intel. (although the problem happened on my old G5 with Tiger as well)


Cocoa Booklet crashes every so often for me too. It never seems to be a problem. Restart it and it is back to normal for awhile. Are you using CocoBooklet to make your pdf's? I have never tried that from Finale. I just do the print and then choose pdf. No problems at all with files created in this manner.

GN


GN

Specs: iMac 20“ Intel, 2.4ghz, 4GB ram, OS 10.5.4; iBook PPC 1.2ghz, 768M ram, OS 10.4.11

Finale 2008b.r1, Keystation 49E MIDI controller, Yamaha PSR 520, MIDIMAN 1x1

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