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brucecoughlin
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   Posted 2/15/2009 12:53 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
There are two things about Finale that make me want to throw the computer out the window and which never get changed, version after version. I refuse to upgrade to any other version till someone can guarantee these quirks are gone.

I've asked about how to get these to work properly in the past, but never got a solution, but I'll try again:

-- When Finale adds a page it does not look at the last page of your score and duplicate the layout. The page margins situation is better in 2008 than in past versions, but it still does not duplicate the staff size percentages in your score. This is so annoying because it not only happens when you add your own pages, but also when Finale automatically adds pages as, for example, when you use FIT MEASURES and Finale needs to add pages to make it work. So then you have to go back to page one and do the percentage tool on every staff. It's so annoying. How hard a programming task is it to look at the page just before you add pages, make note of staff percentages and duplicate it on the added pages???

-- The other major PITA is whenever you make the slightest change to a measure (as in, for ex, dragging some music from one staff to another) it completely forgets that you went to all the trouble to make all the measures the same size on every page (by selecting all measures while in the Measure Tool and doubling clicking on bar 1, set width to 600, then command U). So after all of that if you make a change to a bar it completely resizes all the bars again. Then you have to go BACK and do the measure width process all over again. Brother....

Last I asked about these issues (it's been the same for years) the only response I got was: it's a pain but that's the way FINALE works. Has anything improved since then? Any way to get around this behavior? Is 2009 any better? If not I certainly don't need to pay an upgrade price for prettier slurs.

b
Finale 2008b
Mac OSX
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N. Grossingink
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   Posted 2/15/2009 2:05 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
1. Finale uses Document > Page Format > Score as the format for new systems/pages. This information can be updated as you work if you go to the Page Layout menu and check "Update Page Layout for Score". This particular "feature" is sometimes too esoteric to make sense, but as with many other "features", Finale will usually err on the side of not making global changes unless the user specifically chooses them. I appreciate this overall behavior.

2. Turn off "Automatic Music Spacing" in Preferences > Program Options > Edit. Or, better yet, if this is the criteria for an entire file. go t0 Document Options > Music Spacing and set both minimum and maximum measure widths to 6.25". That will force measure widths to be the same when spacing is applied

N.


Finale 2006c, 2007c, 2008b
TgTools, Patterson Plugins, QuicKeys X3
Mac Mini 1.25ghz PPC - OSX 10.4.11

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Zuill
"The Troll"



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   Posted 2/15/2009 5:34 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
As far as the second problem, I leave automatic spacing on and let Finale adjust things for me as I go. After I've entered everything, I lock the systems, optimize, and then, I do my manual adjustments (turning off automatic spacing if needed). I try to keep these to a minimum. If you want, you can bookmark these measures as you go to remember their location for future reference.

I find clients of mine that send me files for examination have spend too much time manually adjusting things early in a project. I spend most of my time removing all of those adjustments. I then only tweak spots that need it. There are usually fewer of those than one might think if you let Finale do the dirty work first.

Zuill


"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
 
Finale 2002b, 2003a, 2004b, 2005b, Win 2000 or XP
 
Favorite Forum quote: "Please, everybody, IGNORE THE TROLL!"

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Matthew Hindson
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   Posted 2/16/2009 2:37 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
brucecoughlin said...


I've asked about how to get these to work properly in the past, but never got a solution, but I'll try again:

-- When Finale adds a page it does not look at the last page of your score and duplicate the layout.


That would be a great idea! It would help people create better layouts - i.e. make it more difficult to create poor layouts.

brucecoughlin said...

-- The other major PITA is whenever you make the slightest change to a measure (as in, for ex, dragging some music from one staff to another) it completely forgets that you went to all the trouble to make all the measures the same size on every page (by selecting all measures while in the Measure Tool and doubling clicking on bar 1, set width to 600, then command U). So after all of that if you make a change to a bar it completely resizes all the bars again. Then you have to go BACK and do the measure width process all over again. Brother....


It would be fabulous if there could be some way of locking measures so that the format cannot easily or accidentally changed.

brucecoughlin said...

Last I asked about these issues (it's been the same for years) the only response I got was: it's a pain but that's the way FINALE works. Has anything improved since then? Any way to get around this behavior? Is 2009 any better? If not I certainly don't need to pay an upgrade price for prettier slurs.

Actually, that's something which is very important, and actually worth paying money for (though they should have fixed it for free).

How does one send such suggestions to Finale these days?
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Peter West
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Date Joined Dec 2002
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   Posted 2/16/2009 3:09 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
brucecoughlin said...


Last I asked about these issues (it's been the same for years) the only response I got was: it's a pain but that's the way FINALE works. Has anything improved since then? Any way to get around this behavior? Is 2009 any better? If not I certainly don't need to pay an upgrade price for prettier slurs.



Finale has been this way since version 1, and interestingly, the solutions given here have been available since version 1 too (1989ish)
Why you should have been told you have to live with it I don't know, that was wrong information at any time in Finale's history.


Peter
Music Publishing Services

*********************
Mac 2.66GHz Intel Quad, 4GB RAM /OSX.5.6 /30 inch cinema display+20 inch Cinema Display
Finale 2008a 2009a/Logic Pro Studio/Komplete/GPO/Kore 2/Max.msp/Pluggo

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brucecoughlin
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   Posted 2/18/2009 10:36 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Thanks for the replies

Setting max and minimum widths in the Doc Music Spacing Options seems to do the trick. Thanks!

However, I DO have update page format for score checked. It does NOT remember staff percentage sizes. Unless there's a hidden preference somewhere that would include that in update page format. If Finale adds a page then staff sizes are 100% on the added pages and none of mine is 100% in my score.
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Peter West
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   Posted 2/18/2009 10:57 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
If all staff sizes are the same, it is far more user-friendly to use system or page reductions. These can be set as defaults for new pages. If you have only one or a few reduced staves (as in eg a piano part of a Violin Sonata, then applying the reduction to only the one stave works best. This has to be applied to new pages. The quickest way is to click on the reduced staff of an already existing page (with the % tool) and hit return. It defaults to end of piece.


Peter
Music Publishing Services

*********************
Mac 2.66GHz Intel Quad, 4GB RAM /OSX.5.6 /30 inch cinema display+20 inch Cinema Display
Finale 2008a 2009a/Logic Pro Studio/Komplete/GPO/Kore 2/Max.msp/Pluggo

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Dr. Wiggy
Early music: modern methods



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   Posted 2/18/2009 10:59 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
brucecoughlin said...
However, I DO have update page format for score checked. It does NOT remember staff percentage sizes. Unless there's a hidden preference somewhere that would include that in update page format. If Finale adds a page then staff sizes are 100% on the added pages and none of mine is 100% in my score.

There is a setting for the percentage Staff Size in the Page Format dialog. All new pages will have the size specified there. If you make further reductions on the page with the percentage tool, then those will not be carried over.

Dare I ask why you want to specify that all measures must be exactly the same width? If they contain the same notes, they will be of similar widths. If there contain different notes, then surely they will need to be of different widths?


Finale 2009b, 2Ghz iMac, OS X 10.5.6, M-Audio Audiophile USB
Ancient Groove Music
www.ancientgroove.co.uk

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brucecoughlin
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   Posted 3/2/2009 2:48 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Well, Wiggy, the point is that I don't want the same staff size for every staff. I'm an orchestrator and I don't use FINALE for orchestrating the music (though the copyists ultimately do). What I DO use it for is making my score paper for orchestrating (in pencil). So on a score with maybe 16 players I generally like the staff percentage to be 105%. It's just a width I'm comfortable writing on. Since the vocals are copy and pasted from a FINALE PV they don't need to be as large, perhaps 80%. And sometimes I'll have a reference piano part at the bottom which is from the PV but is purely for my own reference and can be quite small. Also 80% or even smaller.

So you see how annoying it is to set all that up and then when FINALE adds pages automatically they all come out to 100% even if some should be 80% and some 65%.

The reason I use fixed width measures is that if all the bars are blank for writing in pencil except the vocal line then FINALE will base the width on the vocal line alone. Now in the music the singer might be singing a whole note (or nothing at all) but in fact when I orchestrate there will be a flurry of notes in that bar. The easiest solution is to just have the bars all the same width. That also makes it easier later on to go back and make fix bars that are tapeable into the conductor's score. If I have fixed widths, then go to my ref pno part and drag something from the PV into my piano part then Finale readjusts the widths on the page. But then the copyist goes to tape in a fix bar into the conductor score and it doesn't fit. It's even more important for coma sopras because if I CS 8 bars in just the horns (but write new notes in the other parts) then it's MUCH easier for the copyist to go and xerox those bars and tape them in at the CS location and the final score is all neat and tidy for the conductor.
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jasako
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   Posted 3/2/2009 9:12 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
brucecoughlin said...
When Finale adds a page it does not look at the last page of your score and duplicate the layout.
In some files it doesn't even duplicate the page size


iMac 2.8 Ghz Intel Core Duo
OS 10.5.6
Finale 2009b.r3
GPO 1.1.8
Midiman 2x2

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Dr. Wiggy
Early music: modern methods



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   Posted 3/3/2009 6:39 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
brucecoughlin said...
So you see how annoying it is to set all that up and then when FINALE adds pages automatically they all come out to 100% even if some should be 80% and some 65%.

The overall page magnification (and indeed paper size) will be at the percentage specified in Page Format. However, from what I understand, you want some, but not all, staves to be at different percentages. Yes, you are right that if you set the % reduction for a staff and then add measures (and hence pages), then the new pages don't have the reduced staff height.

You should submit a request to MM that percentage staff reductions are continued on new pages, as I imagine that you work in a way that has not been envisaged by the program's creators. The general scheme is that page layout is dealt with after all the notes have been entered.
Peter's suggestion for clicking on the staffs concerned with the % tool and clicking OK is the most straightforward. Perhaps you could create a Finalescript which would automate this for you, as you add pages?

What's a PV, by the way?


Finale 2009b, 2Ghz iMac, OS X 10.5.6, M-Audio Audiophile USB
M-Audio Oxygen 61; Yamaha PSR-410
Ancient Groove Music
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brucecoughlin
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   Posted 3/9/2009 12:38 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
PV = piano/vocal

used in shows. I get a PV from rehearsal and orchestrate from that.
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