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chimp
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   Posted 2/27/2009 11:36 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Can (how can) cautionary key signature after mid-measure clef changes be displayed in Finale?

After mid-measure clef changes, such as from Bass to C clef, the key signature will only be displayed the beginning of the following system. Is there a way to display the new key signature immediately after the new clef?

Many thanks!
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Zuill
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   Posted 2/27/2009 12:33 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
If I understand you correctly, the clef and the key are changing in the middle of a measure. If that is the case, you would need to create 2 shorter measures to look like one long measure (eg. 2 2/4 bars to look like 1 4/4 bar. That is the only way I know to change key in the middle of a measure.

Zuill


"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
 
Finale 2002b, 2003a, 2004b, 2005b, Win 2000 or XP
 
Favorite Forum quote: "Please, everybody, IGNORE THE TROLL!"

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chimp
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   Posted 2/27/2009 1:04 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
thanks! in my case, only the clef is changing, but still I'd like, for editorial reason, to display a "cautionary" key signature. I think I have to make 2 smaller measures, or create extra space and display the key signatures as articulations or some other ways. If anyone knows of a quicker, please do let me know.
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Bill Stevens
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   Posted 2/27/2009 1:15 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Do you just want to force key signature to be shown? Or do you want a cautionary signature that has naturals in it to cancel previous accidentals?

You force a signature with Measure Tool > Select measure > Key Signature > Always show.

Bill
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Saffron
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   Posted 2/27/2009 1:21 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Talking of cautionary accidentals, I've long been a fan of the eponymous plug-in - in fact, it is one of the few that I use with any regularity.

Unfortunately, today I found that it really can't cope with measures containing certain jazzy chords:



In this example, I have a repeated chord with F# as its lower note, but F as its highest - look what a mess the plug-in makes of it!

Brian
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Jetcopy
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   Posted 2/27/2009 1:27 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Bill Stevens said...
Do you just want to force key signature to be shown? Or do you want a cautionary signature that has naturals in it to cancel previous accidentals?

You force a signature with Measure Tool > Select measure > Key Signature > Always show.

Bill

But this will force the key at the beginning of the measure, wouldn't it?

For the OP request, I think the simplest solution is to place the accidentals right after the mid-measure clef change as text expressions. I wouldn't go to the trouble creating 2 measures, hiding barlines, changing measure numbering, etc...

JT


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Bill Stevens
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   Posted 2/27/2009 1:35 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
> But this will force the key at the beginning of the measure, wouldn't it?

Not if you did what Zuill suggested and break the measure in half. You would need to make sure the second half is not included in the measure numbering.

Bill
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Zuill
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   Posted 2/27/2009 1:52 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I've never seen a cautionary key signature at a clef change. Wouldn't this make the music cluttered?

Zuill


"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
 
Finale 2002b, 2003a, 2004b, 2005b, Win 2000 or XP
 
Favorite Forum quote: "Please, everybody, IGNORE THE TROLL!"

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BobRock
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   Posted 2/27/2009 3:25 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Saffron said...
Talking of cautionary accidentals, I've long been a fan of the eponymous plug-in - in fact, it is one of the few that I use with any regularity.

Unfortunately, today I found that it really can't cope with measures containing certain jazzy chords:



In this example, I have a repeated chord with F# as its lower note, but F as its highest - look what a mess the plug-in makes of it!

Brian


Brian, accidentals have only one way of notating so that no oboist bothers you wondering if he needs to play f natural because there is no natural in front of the note and percussionist plays f sharp on the marimba: accidental before every note (including naturals).

Bob
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Saffron
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   Posted 2/27/2009 3:35 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Bob,

I'd know a lot of oboists, but not one that can accurately play a 4-note chord solo - at least, not on purpose ... lol

Brian
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chimp
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   Posted 2/27/2009 4:03 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I think I will place them as text expression. Forcing key signatures will force key signature to be shown on the other stave with no clef changes as well.

I'm working on preparing a modern edition from 18th-century manuscripts, and this fuzzy way of working is required for such an edition.

Many thanks!
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Zuill
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   Posted 2/27/2009 5:10 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I figured it had to be a necessary thing, but it just seemed that it would be unnecessary. I find the same thing when a score has a Bass Clef (in a Grands Staff), then immediately a Treble Clef at the beginning of a score. I know it is a historical practice, but Finale can't handle it, and the workaround is tricky.

I'm glad you have a method that works.

Zuill


"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
 
Finale 2002b, 2003a, 2004b, 2005b, Win 2000 or XP
 
Favorite Forum quote: "Please, everybody, IGNORE THE TROLL!"

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