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Dr. Wiggy
Early music: modern methods



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   Posted 8/19/2010 2:23 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Can anyone confirm whether Simple Entry is really slow at putting the notes in for them in 2011?

It's much slower than I can type or play, and I often have to wait for it to catch up.

Turning off playback, using MIDI or Audio Units, Changing MIDI thru, and trashing prefs all have no effect. Speedy Entry is much ..err.. speedier, but I don't know what I'm doing with that.

I can't be certain if this is a recent development, or if it's always been like this.


Finale 2011, 2009c, 2Ghz iMac; 2Ghz MacBook, 10.6.4
Edirol FA-66; M-Audio Oxygen 61; Yamaha PSR-410
Ancient Groove Music
www.ancientgroove.co.uk

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Mike Rosen
himself



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   Posted 8/19/2010 3:16 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Only the first note or two, then it jumps to the correct spot and it seems fine from there.



Mike Rosen
www.specialmillwork.com

WebMaster and bass for the Seattle SeaChordsmen www.seachordsmen.org
Bass for What's Cookin' www.whatscookinvlq.com
FINALE TIPS at www.specialmillwork.com/finaletips.htm

Print Music 2004, 2006, 2008, 2009, 2010; Finale 2010b, 2011
Simple Entry, QWERTY keyboard. That's my system, and I'm stickin' to it.

Favorite reference: Essential Dictionary of Music Notation, Gerou & Lusk, 1996



"As a musician, he's a damn fine woodworker."

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Michael Mortilla
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   Posted 8/19/2010 3:23 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Not seeing that here. Fast as ever.


OS X 10.5.8; Dual 2.0 PPC; 4GB RAM; Finale 2011; Digital Performer 7

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Dr. Wiggy
Early music: modern methods



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   Posted 8/19/2010 3:31 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Hmm... Actually it definitely wasn't like this before. Time for some probing.


Finale 2011, 2009c, 2Ghz iMac; 2Ghz MacBook, 10.6.4
Edirol FA-66; M-Audio Oxygen 61; Yamaha PSR-410
Ancient Groove Music
www.ancientgroove.co.uk

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Michael Mortilla
Registered Member

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   Posted 8/19/2010 3:53 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I'm on a PPC, BTW. Mike's on a...


OS X 10.5.8; Dual 2.0 PPC; 4GB RAM; Finale 2011; Digital Performer 7

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OCTO.
The radical answers.



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   Posted 8/19/2010 4:04 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
maybe problem with graphic card? or font issue?
try to change background?

...don't scary me, my new 2011 is on the way...


Finale 2009c, OS X 10.5.8 / MacBookPro & iMac 20" / Logic Studio 8, Peak Express / InDesign CS4
INGLISH iz not maj modr-toung!

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Dr. Wiggy
Early music: modern methods



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   Posted 8/20/2010 1:52 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
OCTOECHOS said...
maybe problem with graphic card? or font issue?
try to change background?

None of these seem likely. They also don't explain why Speedy Entry does not have the delay.


Finale 2011, 2009c, 2Ghz iMac; 2Ghz MacBook, 10.6.4
Edirol FA-66; M-Audio Oxygen 61; Yamaha PSR-410
Ancient Groove Music
www.ancientgroove.co.uk

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OCTO.
The radical answers.



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   Posted 8/20/2010 5:22 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
trash preferences.. as many use to say..


Finale 2009c, OS X 10.5.8 / MacBookPro & iMac 20" / Logic Studio 8, Peak Express / InDesign CS4
INGLISH iz not maj modr-toung!

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Dr. Wiggy
Early music: modern methods



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   Posted 8/20/2010 6:04 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I already tried that. It may be another preference or a cache.


Finale 2011, 2009c, 2Ghz iMac; 2Ghz MacBook, 10.6.4
Edirol FA-66; M-Audio Oxygen 61; Yamaha PSR-410
Ancient Groove Music
www.ancientgroove.co.uk

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Anders Brasetvik
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   Posted 8/20/2010 1:35 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Come to think of it, I always had that problem before.
Not in 2011 so far.

Is it anything like this?
forum.makemusic.com/default.aspx?f=6&m=268290


Anders Brasetvik
Finale 2011
Macbook OS X 10.6.4

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Dr. Wiggy
Early music: modern methods



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   Posted 8/20/2010 2:10 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
It doesn't happen with every document. I'm awaiting MM's verdict.


Finale 2011, 2009c, 2Ghz iMac; 2Ghz MacBook, 10.6.4
Edirol FA-66; M-Audio Oxygen 61; Yamaha PSR-410
Ancient Groove Music
www.ancientgroove.co.uk

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OCTO.
The radical answers.



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   Posted 8/20/2010 2:17 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
could you post document?


Finale 2009c, OS X 10.5.8 / MacBookPro & iMac 20" / Logic Studio 8, Peak Express / InDesign CS4
INGLISH iz not maj modr-toung!

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OCTO.
The radical answers.



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   Posted 8/22/2010 3:04 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I don't know if there is any connection with this problem: http://forum.makemusic.com/default.aspx?f=6&m=302230


Finale 2011, OS X 10.5.8 / MacBookPro & iMac 20" / Logic Studio 8, Peak Express 6 / InDesign CS4
INGLISH iz not maj modr-toung!

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Dr. Wiggy
Early music: modern methods



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   Posted 8/22/2010 3:13 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
OCTOECHOS said...
I don't know if there is any connection with this problem: http://forum.makemusic.com/default.aspx?f=6&m=302230

I doubt it. Simple Entry has always created "ghosting" around the cursor. 2011 was supposed to have fixed this cosmetic issue.

My sluggishness in SE is only in a couple of files. I can't post them here, but I've sent one to MM, so we'll see what they come up with.


Finale 2011, 2009c, 2Ghz iMac; 2Ghz MacBook, 10.6.4
Edirol FA-66; M-Audio Oxygen 61; Yamaha PSR-410
Ancient Groove Music
www.ancientgroove.co.uk

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David Clarence
Player of Notes



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   Posted 11/21/2010 4:26 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Has there been any progress on this? I have exactly the same problem as Wiggy, but I'm still on F2010. Tried all the usual fixes etc.


Dave
Finale 2010b - iMac G5 PPC 10.5.8 2GB RAM

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Dr. Wiggy
Early music: modern methods



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   Posted 11/22/2010 2:39 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
It is file specific, so pasting into a new document or exporting and importing as XML helps.


Finale 2011b, 2009c, 2Ghz iMac; 2Ghz MacBook, 10.6.5
Edirol FA-66; M-Audio Oxygen 61; Yamaha PSR-410
Ancient Groove Music
www.ancientgroove.co.uk

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Vaughan
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   Posted 11/22/2010 5:23 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
File specific? Although I don't use Simple, it would be very interesting to know what exactly is causing the slowdown in that one file.


Vaughan

Finale 3.2 - 2011, Sibelius 4 - 6
Tobias Giesen's plugins, full version, Robert Patterson plugins, Dolet 5 plugin
MacOS 10.6.5
MacPro 6GB, MacBookPro (late 2008) 4GB
Kontakt 2, 3.5, 4.0

Amsterdam

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Dr. Wiggy
Early music: modern methods



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   Posted 11/22/2010 6:07 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
There is a thread on the Windows side about sluggish SimpleEntry.

I'm not sure what the cause might be, though my suspects are that both files with this problem have had staves added afterwards, using the Setup Wizard, and also contain Staff Styles.
Speedy Entry is unaffected.

I have one files that is very sluggish* for everything: Lyrics, scrolling, everything is slow. Exporting and importing through XML solves the problem, though there are a few things that need fixing up afterwards. The .mus file is 100K lighter after conversion, down from 650Kb. (c. 800 measures, 15 staves.)

However, generally, most other files are fine.


I have a racing snail. he's been losing a lot of races recently, so I thought I would remove his shell to make him faster. But if anything, it's just him more sluggish.


Finale 2011b, 2009c, 2Ghz iMac; 2Ghz MacBook, 10.6.5
Edirol FA-66; M-Audio Oxygen 61; Yamaha PSR-410
Ancient Groove Music
www.ancientgroove.co.uk

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OCTO.
The radical answers.



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   Posted 11/22/2010 11:31 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Wiggy,
I experienced something simmilar before.
Only documents that have the problem you described are those in which I loaded library from Finale 2009 version.


...................
Finale 2011b, OS X 10.6.4 / MacBookPro & iMac 20" / Logic Studio 8, Peak Express 6 / InDesign CS4
INGLISH iz not maj modr-toung!

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David Clarence
Player of Notes



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   Posted 11/23/2010 4:41 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Wiggy said...
I'm not sure what the cause might be, though my suspects are that both files with this problem have had staves added afterwards, using the Setup Wizard, and also contain Staff Styles.


Yes, adding staves to an existing file seems to be the problem, (although I just added them from the Staff menu). Exporting/importing as XML did the trick and saved about about 60kb on this particular file. Thanks for the tip!


Dave
Finale 2010b - iMac G5 PPC 10.5.8 2GB RAM

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Vaughan
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   Posted 11/23/2010 4:59 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Really makes you wonder what exactly is going on. Why should adding staves cause a slowdown in Simple (but not Speedy)? Why should importing via XML solve things and reduce the file size? It might be interesting to perform file maintenance right before and then right after adding staves to see if Finale needs to remove any extraneous information from the file.


Vaughan

Finale 3.2 - 2011, Sibelius 4 - 6
Tobias Giesen's plugins, full version, Robert Patterson plugins, Dolet 5 plugin
MacOS 10.6.5
MacPro 6GB, MacBookPro (late 2008) 4GB
Kontakt 2, 3.5, 4.0

Amsterdam

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Saffron
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   Posted 11/23/2010 9:42 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I reported a similar error in Finale 2005 last year - though simply got the standard derision from the usual suspects for not upgrading.

The point was (and apparently still is) that some Finale files accumulate junk data that eventually cripples their performance, and File Maintenance and the other standard tricks are unable to detect or remove the garbage. Exporting/importing from MusicXML might well be a solution, but is far from ideal as a "garbage collector", as other information is lost in the process.

It does slightly bother me that taking a Finale file, adding stuff to it, and then deleting, cannot get you back to the original file - and very often, your newer version of the file is larger than the one you started out with after such a cycle.

MusicXML aside, and assuming Finale will never get a true garbage collector, at the very least, it would be good if the "Save As" routine took more care to filter out unwanted stuff - as is done in programs like InDesign and PageMaker ...

Brian


 

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Doug Blackmore
www.aviatorsmusic.com



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   Posted 11/25/2010 10:35 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
The more stuff that's on the page, the slower my articulation tool works. I can fix this by turning down hardware acceleration on my video, but that introduces other more serious problems.


Doug Blackmore
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Finale 2006r3, Win 2K Pro

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Motet
Isorhythmic



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   Posted 11/26/2010 1:48 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
As I reported elsewhere, I'm experiencing extreme sluggishness with the repitch tool (the only Simple Entry I do) in a large score (2,000 measures x 12 staves). After initially trying to dismiss me, the MM support person asked for my file to look at, so maybe they'll do something. It seems like it's visiting every measure of every staff each time I repitch a single note. Though "automatic update layout" is off, perhaps this is an easy way to ensure proper spacing.

I can reproduce this on a brand new file of this size, so it's not a "junk data" issue.

Speedy Entry seems fine.


Finale 2011b, 2005b, TGTools
Windows XP Professional, Service Pack 3

Post Edited (Motet) : 11/26/2010 12:51:07 PM (GMT-6)

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Motet
Isorhythmic



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   Posted 11/26/2010 4:06 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I will add that 2011 Speedy is slightly more sluggish than 2005, though probably a human wouldn't notice it at this point. But I've got a front-end program that sits between my MIDI keyboard and Finale and maps certain MIDI keys to letter keys. For example, I may play a MIDI note and it will transmit that pitch but then also send a 4 to enter an eighth note. When I switched to 2011, I had to increase the delay between sending the pitch and sending the 4 from 10ms to 100. So perhaps Finale is getting slower and slower. I can't imagine reporting this and having it taken seriously, though, since it's so arcane.


Finale 2011b, 2005b, TGTools
Windows XP Professional, Service Pack 3

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