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[email protected]
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   Posted 10/12/2011 8:32 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Thanks to everyone for their replies. A few comments:

1. Wiggy, I'm glad you can figure out Page Layout. To me it's exceptionally complicated. I have contacted Finale help a number of times to find a way to copy settings from older documents. They had no solution. The problem I have is that many of my documents are quite old and have been saved again and again in newer formats. I've tried to save the Page Layout as a Library and they do not open up correctly formatted. Your suggestions are fine if I were starting today with new documents.

2. Wiggy, I agree the editing has improved in later versions of Finale, but I still think there are ways to reduce the number of clicks necessary to edit.

3. Thanks for the info on right-clicking for easy time signature input. Being a Mac user, I hadn't seen that option. Option-click brings up that list on a Mac. Wouldn't it make sense to make this the first option available to users (and allow the users who need more complicated things to dig for the answers?).

4. Good point on the 11x17 printing. However I currently own a super high end Canon printer that will do just about anything. It would be nice to have some kind of Booklet printing option directly from Finale.

5. Good information on text blocks in individual parts.

6. Saving document in a current version of Finale is no problem. As for saving older Finale documents (that were just opened in a newer version of Finale), I just want the option to allow me to save over the older version without having to click through all the nested folders to get to the name of the document. That would actually allow me not to have to update all of the 6000 documents that I have. Another alternative would be a Finale script that would open and save all Finale document on the computer in the newest Finale format.

Michael, as to the point about update costs: Many times the new features that are offered in a new version of Finale may not be interesting to a user. My point: just charge one amount to everyone whenever they decide to upgrade.
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Christopher Smith
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   Posted 10/12/2011 8:33 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Oh, one more thing. It's true that Finale won't let you copy certain settings, but Robert Patterson's Scrapbook Settings plugin will let you copy individual settings, including page layout. It's cheap, and more than worth the price.


Christopher Smith

Mac 2 x 2 Ghz Dual-Core Intel Xeon
OSX 10.6
Finale 2011b
or
Mac iBook G4 733 Mhz
OSX 10.4.11
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Christopher Smith
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   Posted 10/12/2011 8:37 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
[email protected] said...

6. Saving document in a current version of Finale is no problem. As for saving older Finale documents (that were just opened in a newer version of Finale), I just want the option to allow me to save over the older version without having to click through all the nested folders to get to the name of the document. That would actually allow me not to have to update all of the 6000 documents that I have. Another alternative would be a Finale script that would open and save all Finale document on the computer in the newest Finale format.


I don't know if this will work for you, but if you can see the file on the desktop, you can just drag it into the Save dialogue box and the path and filename will be entered automatically. I have two monitors, but I can even do this on my tiny laptop screen by resizing and dragging windows until I can see both the Finder window AND the save dialogue box.

On System 9 I used to have a utility called Default Folder that remembered where I got files from. It would be useful now, too, in OSX.


Christopher Smith

Mac 2 x 2 Ghz Dual-Core Intel Xeon
OSX 10.6
Finale 2011b
or
Mac iBook G4 733 Mhz
OSX 10.4.11
Finale 2010b r.1

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Dr. Wiggy
Early music: modern methods



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   Posted 10/12/2011 8:56 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
[email protected] said...
1. Wiggy, I'm glad you can figure out Page Layout. To me it's exceptionally complicated. I have contacted Finale help a number of times to find a way to copy settings from older documents. They had no solution. The problem I have is that many of my documents are quite old and have been saved again and again in newer formats. I've tried to save the Page Layout as a Library and they do not open up correctly formatted.
You need to load the Library, and then Redefine the Pages. I do it all the time.
[email protected] said...
6. Saving document in a current version of Finale is no problem. As for saving older Finale documents (that were just opened in a newer version of Finale), I just want the option to allow me to save over the older version without having to click through all the nested folders to get to the name of the document. That would actually allow me not to have to update all of the 6000 documents that I have. Another alternative would be a Finale script that would open and save all Finale document on the computer in the newest Finale format.
I did offer several ways to minimize the tedium of trawling through folder hierarchies. Alternatively, it would not be difficult to create an Applescript that would convert every file on your computer. Personally, I would deal with each file as I needed it.

Christopher Smith said...
On System 9 I used to have a utility called Default Folder that remembered where I got files from. It would be useful now, too, in OSX.

www.stclairsoft.com/DefaultFolderX/release.html


Finale 2011c, 2Ghz iMac; 2Ghz MacBook, 10.6.8
Edirol FA-66; M-Audio Oxygen 61; Yamaha PSR-410
Ancient Groove Music
www.ancientgroove.co.uk

Post Edited (Wiggy) : 10/12/2011 7:50:40 AM (GMT-5)

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weeksc
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   Posted 10/12/2011 9:04 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
[email protected] said...
Thanks to everyone for their replies. A few comments:

4. Good point on the 11x17 printing. However I currently own a super high end Canon printer that will do just about anything. It would be nice to have some kind of Booklet printing option directly from Finale.

I'm not sure I understand your problem here.  I've been printing booklets directly from Finale since around version 3.5 with any printer.  The print dialog has an option for N-up printing, and since you can print in landscape mode and order your pages any way you want, booklet printing is a breeze.
 
You do have to do some calculations to get your imposition correct, but that is not really an issue.  Just make sure your page pairs add up to <page count>+1.  So if you have 24 pages, your first sheet of 11X17 should contain pages 24,1,2,23 printed in that order front and back.  The next sheet would be 22,3,4,21.  Notice that the outside numbers decriment by two, while the inside pair increase in sequence.
 
Works every time for me.


--Clancy
Finale 2008b
Intel 2.3 GHz Core 2 Duo
4GB RAM, Windows 7 Home Premium x64, GeForce GT 440 video card
Creative Labs X-Fi Platinum sound card
___________________________
 
I never claimed to know everything... I'm just right about the things I know!
 


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Christopher Smith
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   Posted 10/12/2011 10:24 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Wiggy said...

Christopher Smith said...
On System 9 I used to have a utility called Default Folder that remembered where I got files from. It would be useful now, too, in OSX.

www.stclairsoft.com/DefaultFolderX/release.html


Ha ha! Wiggy, you are a marvel! Thanks!


Christopher Smith

Mac 2 x 2 Ghz Dual-Core Intel Xeon
OSX 10.6
Finale 2011b
or
Mac iBook G4 733 Mhz
OSX 10.4.11
Finale 2010b r.1

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Motet
Isorhythmic



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   Posted 10/12/2011 2:58 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Michael Mortilla said...
FWIW, the Sibelius upgrade price is $150 (download or shipped in the USA) and personally I don't think it is as good a program - aside from the fact that you are dealing with the Avid conglomerate which make Make Music look like a Mom and Pop operation. I prefer Mom & Pop stores to Wartmart any day!

That's a a biannual upgrade, though, so would be equivalent to $75 for Finale.
 
>#6
 
Surely there's a Save (not Save As...) button in the Mac version.


Finale 2011b, 2005b, TGTools
Windows XP

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Michael Mortilla
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   Posted 10/12/2011 3:03 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Of course there is... :)


Os X 10.6.8; 3.2 gHz 8 core; 12GB RAM.

Finale 2012; Digital Performer 7; Plogue Bidule; the usual VI suspects.

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[email protected]
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   Posted 10/12/2011 3:12 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Michael,
Of course there is a Save button in the Mac version! Re-read the previous post. It won't just save directly if you've opened an older version of a Finale document and are now trying to save it in a newer version of Finale. That's what I'm doing all the time. The Save button works just fine if you open a document in the current version and save it in the current version.
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weeksc
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   Posted 10/12/2011 4:41 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Go to Edit/Program Options/open, uncheck open older documents as "Untitled".

That should allow you to save future documents with just the "Save" button without extra steps.


--Clancy
Finale 2008b
Intel 2.3 GHz Core 2 Duo
4GB RAM, Windows 7 Home Premium x64, GeForce GT 440 video card
Creative Labs X-Fi Platinum sound card
___________________________
 
I never claimed to know everything... I'm just right about the things I know!
 

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[email protected]
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   Posted 10/12/2011 5:07 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Clancy,
Thank for the tip. Here's what Finale says:


How to get there
From the Finale 2010 menu, choose Preferences then Program Options and select open.

What it does
Use the open category to specify how Finale treats various types of files while opening them.

open Older Documents As "Untitled". This option is checked by default. When this option is checked, Finale opens a file created with an earlier version of Finale as an untitled document, requiring you to enter a name before it can be saved. This is done to protect you from inadvertently overwriting your older file, making it unreadable in an earlier version of Finale.

Unfortunately, there is no box to check or uncheck for "untitled".
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[email protected]
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   Posted 10/12/2011 5:34 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Clancy,
Just talked to Finale technical support. None of the above instructions work on a Mac. The dialogue boxes don't exist.
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Skjalg
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   Posted 10/13/2011 10:03 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I wonder why?


Skjalg Bjørstad, Norway

_____________________________________________

Finale 3.0 > 2011c, Macbook, 4 gB 300 gB, GPO JABB, GPO full version, Oxygen 8v2, Yamaha CP33, Echo AudioFire2, PreSonus AudioBox USB

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weeksc
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   Posted 10/13/2011 10:23 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Now that's just weird. This is the first time I've heard of a simple FinWin function that was not also on the Mac side. And this one's really simple, too. I wonder if it has more to do with the MacOS than Finale.


--Clancy
Finale 2008b
Intel 2.3 GHz Core 2 Duo
4GB RAM, Windows 7 Home Premium x64, GeForce GT 440 video card
Creative Labs X-Fi Platinum sound card
___________________________
 
I never claimed to know everything... I'm just right about the things I know!
 

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[email protected]
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   Posted 10/13/2011 10:25 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Clancy,
Other than the use of most of the right-click commands that most of us Mac Users don't know about (and should - obviously).
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Michael Mortilla
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   Posted 10/13/2011 11:31 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
[email protected] said...
Clancy,
Other than the use of most of the right-click commands that most of us Mac Users don't know about (and should - obviously).


Please speak for yourself. Maybe most Mac users you know are ignorant of these commands, but we are not generally talking about ignorant users here: not on a Mac and not on a PC. More often, we are talking among people who use their machines 8+ hours a day in production of fairly high end stuff, often for demanding clients and on tight deadlines. It is also disingenuous to assume (exaggerate?) that "most" Mac users are unaware that there are at least two buttons on their mice or that they have a key marked "Control" to access these features. Again, speak for yourself, but don't pretend to speak for, as, or to represent in any way a group you only imagine exists - or that Mac - or PC users for that matter - are, as a group, ignorant of a feature or features.

eyes

As far as the issue of a newer version of any program not simply overwriting a file created in an earlier version of that program, I don't see this as a weakness in the app or the Mac OS. Files are thereby protected from possible inadvertent corruption or deletion. Having access to the original version of a file is more than just a convenience. It can be critical if something goes wrong. Finale certainly isn't the only program to work this way and that is something you "don't know about (and should - obviously)". Someone who claims to have to access 6000 files on a regular basis should know better.

As far as taking 2 seconds to rename a file by adding a unique number to the name (MusicFile10-14-11, for example), I would suggest that if you are that hard pressed for time, then you are likely rushing the creation or editing processes as well. That is, of course, your business but again, don't assume that everyone creates, arranges, orchestrates, or engraves music as fast as a girl scout can sell cookies.


Os X 10.6.8; 3.2 gHz 8 core; 12GB RAM.

Finale 2012; Digital Performer 7; Plogue Bidule; the usual VI suspects.

Post Edited (Michael Mortilla) : 10/13/2011 10:35:17 AM (GMT-5)

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[email protected]
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   Posted 10/13/2011 12:19 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Michael,
Well I was speaking for myself. You don't need to get testy. I'm not currently surrounded by pros doing work on Finale. As is probably true about most things, it's hard to know everything about any subject. I've been using Finale since version 1, but really only have knowledge about the things that I do a lot. That's probably true for you as well.

As for writing over a file, I'm just asking for the option (which seems to be available to Windows users). I back everything up twice in other places anyway. With 6000 Finale documents, I just get sick of clicking through nested folders to rename something that should be possible with a single click.

Excuse me if you are insulted in the way that I do things (or want to do things). I'm only on this forum to learn new things from some of you (who clearly are pros).

Post Edited ([email protected]) : 10/13/2011 11:23:44 AM (GMT-5)

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Count of Monte Verdi
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   Posted 10/13/2011 1:24 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Mods, please don't lock the thread again. Even as there seems to be a recurring problem with personal attacks by some users, the Forum itself shouldn't suffer for that.

[email protected] don't take it to heart what some say ;)
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weeksc
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   Posted 10/13/2011 7:11 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I'm just amazed the option doesn't exist on the Mac side. Could this be a *requirement* of a "properly" coded Mac program or something? This simply can't be that hard to code for both platforms.

Curiouser and curiouser...


--Clancy
Finale 2008b
Intel 2.3 GHz Core 2 Duo
4GB RAM, Windows 7 Home Premium x64, GeForce GT 440 video card
Creative Labs X-Fi Platinum sound card
___________________________
 
I never claimed to know everything... I'm just right about the things I know!
 

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Skjalg
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   Posted 10/14/2011 2:19 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Michael, there are times when it is desirable and safe to simply overwrite older files.
If i make a duplicate of an entire folder to do some editing to old compositions (newer/better sounds, lay-out adjustments for other purposes than the original etc) then the opportunity to overwrite the original file is not as far-out as you seem to think.
Now, I haven't done this myself since I switched to Mac 2 years ago, but back in the Win days I did it often; although most editing was simply to "upgrade" the appearance of the music as my Finale skills improved...

Why this tiny little feature is Windows-only? I guess there is some reason, but I'm not able to see it.


Skjalg Bjørstad, Norway

_____________________________________________

Finale 3.0 > 2011c, Macbook, 4 gB 300 gB, GPO JABB, GPO full version, Oxygen 8v2, Yamaha CP33, Echo AudioFire2, PreSonus AudioBox USB

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Michael Mortilla
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   Posted 10/14/2011 10:20 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Well, as I've said before - I am the first to admit when I am wrong and I was wrong on this one.

If you open an older file in Finale on a Mac you can save it over the old file. All you have to do is hit the "Replace" button, not rename the file. Duh. My bad on that part and I believe it is part of the OS - not part of Finale, so the MM programmers may not be able to change the behavior. There are 3rd party apps to allow Mac users to change the default selection in the Mac dialogue box - and I think you can also do that in the OS itself. That is a feature most Mac users truly don't know about and probably shouldn't! smilewinkgrin

Yeah, maybe I was/am a bit testy when I see blanket statements about what people should or shouldn't know or do and then have that applied to a large swatch of folks in an arbitrary way. Maybe I could have been more tactful in responding to that and I may not be able to change that behavior.


Os X 10.6.8; 3.2 gHz 8 core; 12GB RAM.

Finale 2012; Digital Performer 7; Plogue Bidule; the usual VI suspects.

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Skjalg
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   Posted 10/14/2011 10:53 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I have a lot of hierarcical subfolders to click trough to replace a specific file. From your latest post here, I wonder if there is some kind of Mac feature I may not be aware of. THAT happens all the time. Is there a system setting or something that offers saving to the file's original location? Because this is not Finale-specific, when I come to think of it.


Skjalg Bjørstad, Norway

_____________________________________________

Finale 3.0 > 2011c, Macbook, 4 gB 300 gB, GPO JABB, GPO full version, Oxygen 8v2, Yamaha CP33, Echo AudioFire2, PreSonus AudioBox USB

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Vaughan
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   Posted 10/14/2011 11:07 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Wiggy already mentioned it and gave a link, but Default Folder X does this very well and much more. It's worth trying out. I find it very easy to overwrite files (intentionally!) and I do it all the time. It's even possible to automate it.


Vaughan

Finale 3.2 - 2012, Sibelius 4 - 7
Tobias Giesen's plugins, full version, Robert Patterson plugins, Dolet 5 plugin
MacOS 10.7.2
MacPro 6GB, MacBookPro (2011) 8GB
Kontakt 4.2

Amsterdam

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Michael Mortilla
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   Posted 10/14/2011 11:14 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
The root of the issue is whether or not you have the PROGRAM PREFERENCES / FOLDERS / MUSIC location item checked or not. Uncheck that option - in which case just hitting SAVE will place the music to the original location and ask you to replace the file or not (again, a changeable function of the OS as far as which button is the default). No drama.


Os X 10.6.8; 3.2 gHz 8 core; 12GB RAM.

Finale 2012; Digital Performer 7; Plogue Bidule; the usual VI suspects.

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Michael Mortilla
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   Posted 10/14/2011 11:31 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Note: After looking into the option to change the button behavior, it would seem that is not something most folks can do competently and safely - myself included. Just deselect the music folder preference and hit apply, then open your document. You might have to restart the app to have it work correctly.


Os X 10.6.8; 3.2 gHz 8 core; 12GB RAM.

Finale 2012; Digital Performer 7; Plogue Bidule; the usual VI suspects.

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