Finale SmartMusic
  Home | Log In | Register | Search | Help
   
MakeMusic Forum > Public Forums > Finale - Macintosh - FORUM HAS MOVED! > Recent Avid Events… (MakeMusic OT?)  Forum Quick Jump
 
You cannot post new topics in this forum. You cannot reply to topics in this forum. Printable Version
43 posts in this thread.
Viewing Page :
 1  2 
[ << Previous Thread | Next Thread >> | Show Newest Post First ]

cGilmore
Registered Member

Email Address Not AvailablePersonal Homepage Not AvailableSend a Private Message to cGilmoreAIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined Nov 2004
Total Posts : 136
 
   Posted 7/2/2012 8:08 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I was just curious if anyone with any inside info knew anything about the recent Avid news and how it possibly relates to Sibelius and it's future as an Avid product?

For those that don't know, Avid sold-off their "consumer" line products and is focusing on their pro products (Pro Tools and Media Composer). In their news releases, Sibelius was never mentioned, either as being part of the sell or as one of their pro products.


Corey Gilmore
www.cgilmoremusic.com

Finale 2012a
VDL 2.5
OSX 10.7.2
3.06 Intel Core 2 Duo
4GB

Back to Top

LloydP
Registered Member

Email Address Not AvailablePersonal Homepage Not AvailableSend a Private Message to LloydPAIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined Nov 2008
Total Posts : 242
 
   Posted 7/3/2012 10:39 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
This link was posted on the Sibelius forum today : http://www.pro-tools-expert.com/home-page/2012/7/3/avid-to-close-uk-sibelius-office.html

Whatever is going on is not good for the music engraving industry imo. Whether you prefer Sibelius over Finale or vice-versa, competition is a good thing for us as users. Since the story isn't sourced, it is hard to know what the heck is happening, but assuming this one is correct that would mean the programming team in the UK will not be there.


Lloyd
27" iMac, Snow Leopard 10.6.x, 4Gb RAM
MacBook Air, Snow Leopard 10.6.x, 2Gb RAM
HP Touchsmart 300, Windows 7, 4Gb RAM
Finale 2011

Back to Top

Dr. Wiggy
Early music: modern methods



Email Address Not AvailablePersonal Homepage Not AvailableSend a Private Message to Dr. WiggyAIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined Jun 2006
Total Posts : 12628
 
   Posted 7/3/2012 11:06 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
It is very sad.

I went to school with the Finn twins who wrote Sibelius. A great shame that this has happened. One would hope that some of the talent would be moved to whether Sib is going to be based, otherwise a lot of inside knowledge is going to be lost.

Finale users have certainly benefitted from the competition that Sib has provided.


"This is me helping."

Finale 2012, 2Ghz iMac; 2Ghz MacBook, 10.7.4
Edirol FA-66; M-Audio Oxygen 61; Yamaha PSR-410, HP Laserjet 5200 DTN
Ancient Groove Music www.ancientgroove.co.uk

Back to Top

Vaughan
Registered Member

Click to send Vaughan email.Personal Homepage Not AvailableSend a Private Message to VaughanAIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined Jun 1999
Total Posts : 4984
 
   Posted 7/3/2012 11:20 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Absolutely true. Hate to say it but many of Finale's features had been implemented first in Sibelius (although the converse is also true). I can't imagine Sibelius ceasing to exist, though. One remark on the blog: 'Latest news is that the software is remaining and the work is being moved to a coding team in Kiev or Daly City. This will of be to cut costs and is sadly normal practice for 90% of software houses.'


Vaughan

Finale 3.2 - 2012a, Sibelius 4 - 7
Tobias Giesen's plugins, full version, Robert Patterson plugins, Dolet 5 plugin
MacOS 10.7.2
MacPro 6GB, MacBookPro (2011) 8GB
Kontakt 4.2

Amsterdam

Back to Top

Motet
Isorhythmic



Email Address Not AvailablePersonal Homepage Not AvailableSend a Private Message to MotetAIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined Dec 2002
Total Posts : 12849
 
   Posted 7/3/2012 3:27 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Kiev or Daly City? Bizarre.


Finale 2011b, 2005, TGTools
Windows XP

Back to Top

David Young : chambermusic
Registered Member



Email Address Not AvailablePersonal Homepage Not AvailableSend a Private Message to David Young : chambermusicAIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined Sep 2000
Total Posts : 2694
 
   Posted 7/3/2012 6:53 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
A joke, I would think??
Motet said...
Kiev or Daly City? Bizarre.


David Young


Historicist Composer of classical-romantic style chamber and orchestral music.
Finale 2.4 to Finale 2010.  Logic Pro 8, Digital Performer, Loaded MAC Tower, two screens, a whole bag of sample libraries including Full GPO, some VSL, True Strike 1 and 2, and now Xsample Chamber Instruments and I have a long ways to go to understand how us all of this.... but quite familiar with Finale!

Join us at www.composeforums.com for
arranging and orchestration!

Back to Top

Vaughan
Registered Member

Click to send Vaughan email.Personal Homepage Not AvailableSend a Private Message to VaughanAIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined Jun 1999
Total Posts : 4984
 
   Posted 7/3/2012 7:24 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Perhaps meaning just a generic city where people work for third-world prices.


Vaughan

Finale 3.2 - 2012a, Sibelius 4 - 7
Tobias Giesen's plugins, full version, Robert Patterson plugins, Dolet 5 plugin
MacOS 10.7.2
MacPro 6GB, MacBookPro (2011) 8GB
Kontakt 4.2

Amsterdam

Back to Top

Mike Rosen
himself



Email Address Not AvailableClick to visit Mike Rosen's website.Send a Private Message to Mike RosenAIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined Feb 2006
Total Posts : 14146
 
   Posted 7/3/2012 8:00 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Elbonia?

Or, wherever those people are in the credit card commercial. "Theez eez Peggy. You have problem?"



Mike Rosen
www.specialmillwork.com

WebMaster and bass for the Seattle SeaChordsmen www.seachordsmen.org
FINALE TIPS at www.specialmillwork.com/finaletips.htm

Finale 2010, 2011, 2012 on Mac 10.7
Simple Entry, QWERTY keyboard. That's my system, and I'm stickin' to it.

"As a musician, he's a damn fine woodworker."

Back to Top

Jari Williamsson
Registered Member

Click to send Jari Williamsson email.Click to visit Jari Williamsson's website.Send a Private Message to Jari WilliamssonAIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined Dec 1998
Total Posts : 3246
 
   Posted 7/4/2012 4:31 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I got it confirmed that the UK Sib office is indeed going to close.

I have a couple of apps where the development has headed in the same "cheap" direction, and I can't say that it's been good for any of these apps. Although bug fixes and minor enhancements has appeared in a very timely fashion, the evolution of innovative ideas have just halted for these applications. I can't really see any good in seeing the employers as an expense instead of an investment.


Jari Williamsson

Windows XP, Pentium 4
2.40 GHz, 4 GB RAM

www.finaletips.nu - The Finale Productivity Tips site

Back to Top

OCTO.
The radical answers.



Email Address Not AvailablePersonal Homepage Not AvailableSend a Private Message to OCTO.AIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined Jul 2008
Total Posts : 2659
 
   Posted 7/4/2012 6:22 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I have go into politics now.
The companies want to sell the product for the same price at the same time they drop their costs. All production moves to a cheaper labour. The consequence is more money for the company but higher unemployment = no money to pay the product of the company = disaster.
Only because of companies' greed.
Only AVID?
No, thousands and thousands companies are moving daily...


Finale 2011c,OS X 10.6.8 OS X 10.5.8 / MacBookPro & iMac 20" / Logic Studio 8, Peak Express 6 / InDesign CS4 / MAX 6 / SuperCollider / CSound
INGLISH iz not maj modr-toung!

Back to Top

Vaughan
Registered Member

Click to send Vaughan email.Personal Homepage Not AvailableSend a Private Message to VaughanAIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined Jun 1999
Total Posts : 4984
 
   Posted 7/4/2012 7:42 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
OCTO said...
No, thousands and thousands companies are moving daily...

Society is based almost entirely on this economic 'model'! Really tragic. Sure we have a lot of good things to show for it (like the computer I'm typing this on) but what a price we're paying for it all. Anyway, please don't go into politics unless, of course, you're planning to go back to the ancient Greek model where being a politician lasted only a year and was a service to the community for which you weren't paid.


Vaughan

Finale 3.2 - 2012a, Sibelius 4 - 7
Tobias Giesen's plugins, full version, Robert Patterson plugins, Dolet 5 plugin
MacOS 10.7.2
MacPro 6GB, MacBookPro (2011) 8GB
Kontakt 4.2

Amsterdam

Back to Top

Motet
Isorhythmic



Email Address Not AvailablePersonal Homepage Not AvailableSend a Private Message to MotetAIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined Dec 2002
Total Posts : 12849
 
   Posted 7/4/2012 12:55 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
It's hard to feel sorry for the Finn twins, who presumably chose to sell out. And this is not necessarily a death knell for Sibelius. There are good programmers in other places besides the U.K. Sibelius has a large user base willing to pay $100-200 for updates, so it's worth a lot to keep it going.


Finale 2011b, 2005, TGTools
Windows XP

Back to Top

LloydP
Registered Member

Email Address Not AvailablePersonal Homepage Not AvailableSend a Private Message to LloydPAIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined Nov 2008
Total Posts : 242
 
   Posted 7/4/2012 2:13 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
While there certainly are good programmers in other places, it isn't all about the coders, it is also about the designing and some music engraving knowledge might just come into play too.


Lloyd
27" iMac, Snow Leopard 10.6.x, 4Gb RAM
MacBook Air, Snow Leopard 10.6.x, 2Gb RAM
HP Touchsmart 300, Windows 7, 4Gb RAM
Finale 2011

Back to Top

Motet
Isorhythmic



Email Address Not AvailablePersonal Homepage Not AvailableSend a Private Message to MotetAIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined Dec 2002
Total Posts : 12849
 
   Posted 7/4/2012 5:06 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
The U.K. doesn't have a monopoly on those things, either.


Finale 2011b, 2005, TGTools
Windows XP

Back to Top

LloydP
Registered Member

Email Address Not AvailablePersonal Homepage Not AvailableSend a Private Message to LloydPAIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined Nov 2008
Total Posts : 242
 
   Posted 7/4/2012 11:19 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
That's true, but when was the last music engraving software produced in the Ukraine? Or for that matter in any other el-cheapo programmer location?


Lloyd
27" iMac, Snow Leopard 10.6.x, 4Gb RAM
MacBook Air, Snow Leopard 10.6.x, 2Gb RAM
HP Touchsmart 300, Windows 7, 4Gb RAM
Finale 2011

Back to Top

BvdPress
Registered Member

Email Address Not AvailablePersonal Homepage Not AvailableSend a Private Message to BvdPressAIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined Nov 2001
Total Posts : 1006
 
   Posted 7/5/2012 12:00 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
LloydP said...
That's true, but when was the last music engraving software produced in the Ukraine? Or for that matter in any other el-cheapo programmer location?


Maybe not programs, but how much music is created there with those programs?

I have used several engravers in the Ukraine because it is a affordable for my little niche. Maybe Avid sees Sibelius as a niche as well?


Bryan Doughty
BVD Press, Music Express and Cimarron Music
Oystein Baadsvik US tour coordinator - http://www.baadsvik.com/
[email protected] or [email protected]
http://www.bvdpress.com
http://www.cimarronmusic.com/

Back to Top

OCTO.
The radical answers.



Email Address Not AvailablePersonal Homepage Not AvailableSend a Private Message to OCTO.AIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined Jul 2008
Total Posts : 2659
 
   Posted 7/5/2012 6:54 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
BvdPress said...

I have used several engravers in the Ukraine because it is a affordable for my little niche.


Me too. But with a lot of problems.

LloydP said...
That's true, but when was the last music engraving software produced in the Ukraine? Or for that matter in any other el-cheapo programmer location?


I have to protest here.
Producing a notation software is not a reference for the knowledge of notation.
Russian scores, for instance by Myza, have extremely low level of number of mistakes, comparing with british, french, american or italian scores (talking about handmade scores). Maybe Universal or Henle has less.

Producing a notation software is a business idea, not a notational!


Finale 2011c,OS X 10.6.8 OS X 10.5.8 / MacBookPro & iMac 20" / Logic Studio 8, Peak Express 6 / InDesign CS4 / MAX 6 / SuperCollider / CSound
INGLISH iz not maj modr-toung!

Post Edited (OCTO.) : 7/5/2012 6:06:02 AM (GMT-5)

Back to Top

Dr. Wiggy
Early music: modern methods



Email Address Not AvailablePersonal Homepage Not AvailableSend a Private Message to Dr. WiggyAIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined Jun 2006
Total Posts : 12628
 
   Posted 7/5/2012 7:32 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I think the real problem is not whether the people who take over are competent -- as engravers or as programmers. It is about losing the acquired knowledge of the existing staff.

You can't just hand over the source code for a program of that scale to completely new people and say "OK, bug fixes and new features by Tuesday, please". You need programmers who know why things were done in a certain way. "Oh yeah, it might make more sense to use a loop-switch there, but we need to handle trombones as an exception AND step around a bug we've not fixed yet." Comments in the code are only going to get you so far.

Assuming that most of the staff are not offered (or do not take up) relocation, then that is the real shame, and the source of problems, regardless of how good the new employees are at their jobs.


"This is me helping."

Finale 2012, 2Ghz iMac; 2Ghz MacBook, 10.7.4
Edirol FA-66; M-Audio Oxygen 61; Yamaha PSR-410, HP Laserjet 5200 DTN
Ancient Groove Music www.ancientgroove.co.uk

Post Edited (Wiggy) : 7/5/2012 6:39:08 AM (GMT-5)

Back to Top

Jari Williamsson
Registered Member

Click to send Jari Williamsson email.Click to visit Jari Williamsson's website.Send a Private Message to Jari WilliamssonAIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined Dec 1998
Total Posts : 3246
 
   Posted 7/5/2012 8:26 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Wiggy said...
I think the real problem is not whether the people who take over are competent -- as engravers or as programmers. It is about losing the acquired knowledge of the existing staff.

You can't just hand over the source code for a program of that scale to completely new people and say "OK, bug fixes and new features by Tuesday, please". You need programmers who know why things were done in a certain way. "Oh yeah, it might make more sense to use a loop-switch there, but we need to handle trombones as an exception AND step around a bug we've not fixed yet." Comments in the code are only going to get you so far.

Assuming that most of the staff are not offered (or do not take up) relocation, then that is the real shame, and the source of problems, regardless of how good the new employees are at their jobs.


This is absolutely true. Also, the libraries used for music notation is mostly custom-made, it's not like in the computer game industry where every company use almost the same set of libraries. IMO, the number of development years on a specialized product such as music notation software is of extreme importance to create new functionality without introducing a whole range of new bugs.


Jari Williamsson

Windows XP, Pentium 4
2.40 GHz, 4 GB RAM

www.finaletips.nu - The Finale Productivity Tips site

Back to Top

Charles Lawrence
Registered Member



Click to send Charles Lawrence email.Personal Homepage Not AvailableSend a Private Message to Charles LawrenceAIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined Dec 2009
Total Posts : 3638
 
   Posted 7/5/2012 8:59 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.

Slightly off topic, but I could not resist...

Vaughan said...
... go back to the ancient Greek model where being a politician lasted only a year and was a service to the community for which you weren't paid.
We certainly need to do this in the USA.  Our train has completely jumped the track!  Enough said.


Dell XPS 600, GenuineIntel Intel(R) Pentium(R) D CPU 3.00GHz [Intel64 Family 15 Model 4 Stepping 4] (2 processors)
8GB Ram
HT Omega Striker 7.1
MSI N430GT 2GB GPU
1TB x 4 internal HD's

Microsoft Windows 7 Ultimate x64 Edition, (06.01.7600.00)
Finale 2012b.r1

Back to Top

OCTO.
The radical answers.



Email Address Not AvailablePersonal Homepage Not AvailableSend a Private Message to OCTO.AIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined Jul 2008
Total Posts : 2659
 
   Posted 7/5/2012 10:04 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Charles Lawrence said...
Slightly off topic, but I could not resist...


Vaughan said...

... go back to the ancient Greek model where being a politician lasted only a year and was a service to the community for which you weren't paid.

We certainly need to do this in the USA. Our train has completely jumped the track! Enough said.


hah...
yes.
A question: What is called a state system ruled by huge capitalists, military industry, banks and landowners?
Back to Top

rpmseattle
Registered Member

Email Address Not AvailablePersonal Homepage Not AvailableSend a Private Message to rpmseattleAIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined Nov 2006
Total Posts : 419
 
   Posted 7/5/2012 3:00 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Competition between Finale and Sibelius has greatly benefitted us as end users, and is essential.

It appears that Sibelius will stay with Avid, but, with the main Sibelius headquarters being closed, it's a huge upheaval, and there is a good chance that innovation will be a casualty in all of this. And the fallout *will* trickle down to Finale users at some point in some form. The last thing we need is Avid's Board of Directors outsourcing their tech support and other vital services, at a point when both companies were actually raising the bar...

I have collected and posted some information and links about what is going on, including Avid financial information and a link to an interesting collection of anonymous reviews of Avid by current and former employees:

www.rpmseattle.com/of_note/?p=4063

I have linked back to this thread from the post, so please continue to post relevant comments here.

The current CEO of Avid is Gary Greenfield who was hired in 2007 on a five year contract to turn the company around. Here it is, the fifth year, and Avid frantically throwing stuff overboard. Go figure. If you'd like to drop him a line and voice concerns, his email is [email protected]


Finale 2012, 2011 | Mac Pro 8 Core Xeon | OSX 10.6.x
www.musicprep.com/makemusic
www.rpmseattle.com/of_note/category/finale/

Back to Top

Jari Williamsson
Registered Member

Click to send Jari Williamsson email.Click to visit Jari Williamsson's website.Send a Private Message to Jari WilliamssonAIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined Dec 1998
Total Posts : 3246
 
   Posted 7/5/2012 4:12 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
rpmseattle said...
Competition between Finale and Sibelius has greatly benefitted us as end users, and is essential.


I agree. We need more music notation programs to compete, not less.

I read the following on the Sib forum:
"It would be great to know how much Avid makes with Sibelius. It could also be helpful to know how much MakeMusic makes with Finale."

First of all, IMO this comparison is irrelevant. Sib has been bought by a huge elephant, financially speaking. Sib isn't that important to Avid, compared to the other remaining products. And for Finale, I think the financial gain for MM would be quite hard to properly evaluate nowadays, since Finale is so integrated within the company, compared to Avid. Some "Finale user issues" are not necessarily pure Finale issue, since much stuff are shared with SmartMusic and/or other products.

For Sib, I think one of the crucial question now might be if Daniel Spreadbury is staying with the product or not. If he's not, the 20th September of 1957 might appear pretty fast.


Jari Williamsson

Windows XP, Pentium 4
2.40 GHz, 4 GB RAM

www.finaletips.nu - The Finale Productivity Tips site

Back to Top

Bill Stevens
Registered Member

Email Address Not AvailablePersonal Homepage Not AvailableSend a Private Message to Bill StevensAIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined Jun 2000
Total Posts : 5408
 
   Posted 7/5/2012 4:22 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
It took a Google search to figure out the date reference.

Bill


Finale 2012a (all versions since 1.0)
Staff Paper and #2 Pencil with eraser
OS 10.7.3 Lion

Back to Top

encephalon
Registered Member

Email Address Not AvailableClick to visit encephalon's website.Send a Private Message to encephalonClick to Add encephalon@mac.com to Your AIM Buddy List.ICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined Aug 2001
Total Posts : 315
 
   Posted 7/5/2012 5:13 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Daly City or Kiev?

I live on the SF Peninsula and drive by the (formerly Digidesign) Avid building a few times a week. I don't know about Kiev, but Daly City is like the Siberia of the Bay Area.

lol


encephalon
iMac 2.8/4G RAM - Mac OS 10.6.7 - Finale 2011c - Logic Studio (9.1)
Slave: Intel i5 Sandy Bridge 2500K/16 GB RAM - 2TB Storage - Windows Professional - Vienna Ensemble Pro

Back to Top
You cannot post new topics in this forum. You cannot reply to topics in this forum. Printable Version
43 posts in this thread.
Viewing Page :
 1  2 
   
Forum Information
Currently it is Tuesday, July 23, 2019 8:57 PM (GMT -5)
There are a total of 407,481 posts in 58,781 threads.
In the last 3 days there were 0 new threads and 0 reply posts. View Active Threads