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Big Jim Slade
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   Posted 3/9/2013 12:13 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
What is the best approach to adding staff lines temporarily. E.g.

1. First violin has a solo passage separate from the rest of the violins?
2. Cellos divis a3 needing 3 separate staffs for a period?
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Zuill
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   Posted 3/9/2013 2:54 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
You're talking abut another staff, not adding lines to a staff. How this is done is by adding extra staves to the entire document, then hiding them in all but the needed systems.

Zuill


"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
 
Finale 2002b, 2003a, 2004b, 2005b, Win XP SP3, 2011b Win 7 64bit, 2012a Bought and Paid For (Hopefully soon 2012b with some of the MAJOR BUGS fixed--well, now with 2012b and some of the bugs are fixed) 2012c, with some bug fixes
Favorite Forum quote: "Please, everybody, IGNORE THE TROLL!"

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Big Jim Slade
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   Posted 3/9/2013 11:08 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
How do I make them show up as the same part?

If I add a 2nd violin line, it wants to be a completely separate part.

Thanks
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Mike Rosen
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   Posted 3/9/2013 12:23 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I thought (like Zuill) that's what you wanted: a separate line for the violin. If we misunderstand, please give us some more details.



Mike Rosen
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michelp
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   Posted 3/9/2013 1:42 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
1) In Manage Part, you can create manually a part which includes several staves.
2) And if a group has been created in the Staff tool, you'll see it in the parts list.
I hope we are talking about the same thing. If not, please explain what you have and what you want.


Michel
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Big Jim Slade
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   Posted 3/9/2013 3:40 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Manage staff was the part I was missing.

Is there a way to automatically hide a staff when there is nothing in it?
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Peter Thomsen
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   Posted 3/9/2013 6:33 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Big Jim Slade said...
…Is there a way to automatically hide a staff when there is nothing in it?

I am not sure what you mean by your word "automatically", but take a look at
Staff Tool.
Staff menu > Hide Empty Staves

The process is not fully "automatical"; you must first select a region (e. g. the entire document).

And it won't update "dynamically":
If you e. g. delete some notes in the middle of the document so that a staff becomes empty, the staff will not "automatically" become hidden in that particular system.
You will have to run the command "Hide Empty Staves" again.

Peter


Mac Finale, 2011c & 2012c, Dolet 6 plug-in, Mac OS X 10.7.5, iMac Intel Core i7, 2.93 GHz, 16 GB RAM

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Motet
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   Posted 3/9/2013 7:57 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Peter Thomsen said...
And it won't update "dynamically":
If you e. g. delete some notes in the middle of the document so that a staff becomes empty, the staff will not "automatically" become hidden in that particular system.
You will have to run the command "Hide Empty Staves" again.
Although if a formerly empty and hidden system becomes populated, it will automatically appear, I think.
 
I've long argued for a fully-dynamic feature, though. Seems like this is the case most people would want.


Finale 2011b, 2005, TGTools
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Big Jim Slade
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   Posted 3/22/2013 7:04 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I have made some progress but have some issues:

1. I created a second staff for the part. I hide the empty saves. I grouped the two staves using a brace. The brace shows up in scroll view but not in page view. How can I get the brace to appear in page view?

2. Is there any way to have the staff show nothing when empty. I disabled the rests but I'd like to get rid of the bar lines too.

3. Is there any way to combine staves in the score but have them separate in the parts? I have 1st violins divisi a4 (not my doing) across two staves in 4 layers. I'd like to have 2 staves on the parts and 1 stave on the score.
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Peter Thomsen
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   Posted 3/22/2013 10:23 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Big Jim Slade said...
…1. I created a second staff for the part. I hide the empty saves. I grouped the two staves using a brace. The brace shows up in scroll view but not in page view. How can I get the brace to appear in page view?…

I think that we need a little more info.
Where do you need the brace?
- Where there is only one staff or where there are two staves?
- In the score or in the linked part?

Seeing a .mus document might also help - to clear things up faster.



Big Jim Slade said...
…2. Is there any way to have the staff show nothing when empty. I disabled the rests but I'd like to get rid of the bar lines too…

Do you want to hide staff-lines or bar-lines?
You can get display/not display of what ever you want, but you will have to do so with a staff style, applied to that particular region.
To hide the staff-lines, go to the pop up menu Staff (in the pane Appearance), and choose a 0-line staff in the pop up menu.

To hide the bar-lines, go to the very same pop up menu, and choose "Other…".
Displace the bar-lines vertically so that they appear inside the other staff.
(You might say that there is a simpler way, namely de-selecting Barlines in the pane Items to Display, but that de-selecting will not hide the Left Barlines at the beginning of each system)



Big Jim Slade said...
…3. Is there any way to combine staves in the score but have them separate in the parts? I have 1st violins divisi a4 (not my doing) across two staves in 4 layers. I'd like to have 2 staves on the parts and 1 stave on the score.

You can do so with the feature Voicing, in the bottom of the window Manage Parts:



Peter


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Big Jim Slade
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   Posted 3/22/2013 11:29 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Thanks for the info. In regard the first question, I would like to have the brace displayed whenever two staff lines appear in a part (or score) when the part spans two lines.

If there is music in only one staff, I'd just like to see that staff.
If there is music in both staves, I'd like to see both staves joined with a brace.

In regard the second question, I would really prefer to completely hide the staff (mid system) for the measures with no music (even partial measures). I was able to accomplish this from your directions using a staff style.

The voicing button is grayed out on my some of the parts I'd like to combine but not the others. Any reason for this?

Post Edited (Big Jim Slade) : 3/22/2013 10:32:20 PM (GMT-5)

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Peter Thomsen
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   Posted 3/23/2013 3:26 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Big Jim Slade said...
Thanks for the info. In regard the first question, I would like to have the brace displayed whenever two staff lines appear in a part (or score) when the part spans two lines.

If there is music in only one staff, I'd just like to see that staff.
If there is music in both staves, I'd like to see both staves joined with a brace…

The brace works for me - without problems.
I think that we need to see an actual .mus document, to clear up why the brace shows up in Scroll View, but not in Page View.

Meanwhile, here is a test you can try:

1. Run the command "Show Empty Staves" on the entire document.
Does that make the brace show up in Page View?

If the brace shows up ip Page View,

2. Run the command "Hide Empty Staves" again.
Does that make the brace disappear again?



Big Jim Slade said...
…The voicing button is grayed out on my some of the parts I'd like to combine but not the others. Any reason for this?

I am sorry - I may have explained this un-clearly.

With the feature "Voicing" you do not "combine staves in the score".

Enter in the score the two parts in separate layers of the same staff, e. g. the upper part in Layer 1, and the lower part in Layer 2.

The feature "Voicing" lets you hide one of the layers, so that you can generate two different 1-staff parts from the same score staff (with 2 layers).

Is that what you need?

Or do you need one 2-staff part that in the score displays as only one staff with 2 layers?

Peter


Mac Finale, 2011c & 2012c, Dolet 6 plug-in, Mac OS X 10.7.5, iMac Intel Core i7, 2.93 GHz, 16 GB RAM

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OCTO.
The radical answers.



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   Posted 3/23/2013 10:22 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Zuill said...
You're talking abut another staff, not adding lines to a staff. How this is done is by adding extra staves to the entire document, then hiding them in all but the needed systems.

Zuill


As a professional composer and user of engraving tool called Finale I find it as a total - fail. Anyone who works extensively with divisi knows how difficult and time consuming it is. It is a completely opposite of what engraving is.
I really find it great that Finale has a nice sound output, but BASIC things like making divisi or adding quartertone accidentals is out of discussion.

This is my last Finale (2011) until quartertones and divisi is introduced.
Sibelius has a kind of ossia-staf that can be easy used as divisi without problem.


Finale 2011c,OS X 10.6.8 / MacBookPro & iMac 20" / Logic Studio 8 / InDesign CS4 / MAX 6 / SuperCollider
INGLISH iz not maj modr-toung!

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David Ward
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   Posted 3/23/2013 11:04 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
OCTO. said...
… … but BASIC things like making divisi or  … …
The screenshot shows a scan from a section of the score of a piece I wrote in MS in 1989 for two singers and full orchestra (first performed in 1992). Here I divide the violas into 7 solo lines, and I have been a bit daunted by this sort of thing at the prospect of revising and shortening this 55 minute piece using Finale. It does seem that I'd need to create a scroll view score with an enormous number of available staves for this and other multiple divisi that maybe only occur on a few pages of the whole. I realize that it (creating the large scroll view score) can be done, and without too much technical difficulty in itself, but it's not very convenient to have to use so many staves, before hiding or optimizing, that are empty for much of the piece.

It would be nice if some future version of Finale came up with something simpler, but in the meantime one can certainly cope.

EDIT: What careless hyphenation in my MS! It hasn't mattered, but if I ever do get round to revising this piece in Finale … BTW, the hand copied parts omitted all the surplus naturals.


David Ward
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Post Edited (David Ward) : 3/23/2013 3:07:34 PM (GMT-5)


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OCTO.
The radical answers.



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   Posted 3/23/2013 6:08 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Thanks, David.
Not to mention composers such Murail, Sørensen, Boulez etc but even Alban Berg (!).
There is an old french style: dividing Vn1 in two and so Vn2, Vla and Vc. It is now popular since it is easy to set up in Finale. Compare some scores of Lindberg in the last years, and one old such Kraft!!

Zuill said...
You're talking abut another staff. How this is done is by adding extra staves to the entire document, then hiding them in all but the needed systems.


It reminds me of the low-cost flights in europe. It is like traveling from Berlin to Paris via Moscow.
Once I supposed to travel from Stockholm to Tokyo and the cheapest flight was by Emirates: Stockholm-London-Dubai-Singapore-Tokyo.
Do you find any similarity with the extensive divisi made in Finale?
shocked


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INGLISH iz not maj modr-toung!

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Michael Pitts
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   Posted 3/23/2013 9:31 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Big Jim,

It's like a "Kentucky Fried" solution. lol

Welcome to the forum,
G


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Big Jim Slade
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   Posted 3/29/2013 9:40 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Thanks.

I found my problem with the braces. The default setting when creating a group is to do it for what appears one system. I needed to change to the entire score.

I have set up the separate divisi score lines. As complained about, it is a bit hokey. However, the the composer has strings unison, divisi in 2, and divisi in 3. When it gets to 3, I created a new staff to make things readable (unlike the manuscript).
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OCTO.
The radical answers.



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   Posted 3/31/2013 6:12 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Big Jim Slade said...
Thanks.

I found my problem with the braces. The default setting when creating a group is to do it for what appears one system.

You can use group attributes for particular measures.

Big Jim Slade said...
As complained about, it is a bit hokey.

Just "a bit"?


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INGLISH iz not maj modr-toung!

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