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John Ruggero
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   Posted 10/22/2015 10:27 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Sorry, Motet, you were probably way ahead of me, because I thought you were referring only to a new feature for standard multi-measure rests for double staffing. My ambitions increased when I realized that it was Finale's lack of control over vertical centering that produces this problem and also others that are even more significant. It was that latter part that I hoped would be taken up for discussion. But I guess there is little demand for automatic vertical centering between two staves.


Mac mini (OS 10.8.5) with dual monitors, Finale 2014d (Finale 2011 as a backup) with GPO 4
Kurzweil Mark 5 with M-Audio Midisport 2 x 2, Adobe InDesign CS4 SmartScore X Pro, JW Plug-ins
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The better the composer, the better the notation.

Post Edited (John Ruggero) : 10/22/2015 10:30:12 AM (GMT-5)

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Charles Lawrence
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   Posted 10/22/2015 10:22 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.

John, et al.,

I am almost through working out the details of a JW Lua script that will accomplish this task.  It will be based on N.'s, Motet's, and Andreo's suggestions.  To be complete, there are several additional issues that have to be considered.  Among them are the font and size to be used for the expression.  I will assume TNR 18 B.  Motet's idea needs to be expanded to include a center justification.  Also the span between staves of the relevant system must be considered in order to center the expression number between the staves, as it may be that you have increased/decreased it from the default.  The document can only have a double stave, and you must select the previously created MMR stack.  A new expression category would be nice, but alas, JW Lua cannot create a new category due to restrictions imposed by MM in the Plug-in Development Kit (PDK), so I will use the Miscellaneous category.  If anyone has any ideas to be considered/included in the script, please post them here, or PM or email me.  As soon as I have debugged the script and added a nice GUI, I will post it here.  Stand by.

BTW:  Motet, I don't think you mentioned the fact that printing will bring back the hidden original numbers unless the option is unchecked as Andreo correctly points out.  My script will perform this task, so you won't have to worry about it.



"Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about!"

 

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Post Edited (Charles Lawrence) : 10/22/2015 10:31:09 AM (GMT-5)

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Motet
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   Posted 10/21/2015 10:59 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I think I said as much above.


Finale 2011b, 2005, TGTools
Finale 2014d demo
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John Ruggero
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   Posted 10/21/2015 8:36 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Andrea, thanks for that tip. The reappearing numbers would be startling after all the work of putting in those numbers by hand!

RMK, I guess I don't subscribe to the unsung genius theory.

But I am disappointed that no one took up my comment about Finale being unable to position expressions midway between two staves. This would be a great boon to those who engrave piano music. We are constantly centering dynamics and hairpins. Finale could be doing this more accurately.


Mac mini (OS 10.8.5) with dual monitors, Finale 2014d (Finale 2011 as a backup) with GPO 4
Kurzweil Mark 5 with M-Audio Midisport 2 x 2, Adobe InDesign CS4 SmartScore X Pro, JW Plug-ins
www.cantilenapress.com

The better the composer, the better the notation.

Post Edited (John Ruggero) : 10/22/2015 6:38:35 AM (GMT-5)

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RMK
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   Posted 10/21/2015 6:27 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
John Ruggero said...
What do you think, RMK?


Who knows who will eventually be considered a great composer?

Salieri, Spohr and Cherubini were at least, if not more, well-regarded than Mozart and Beethoven in their day.

I don't think this will be decided until we are long gone. Perhaps Phillip Glass and Mason Bates will turn out to be the great composers. Time will tell.
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Andreo Basisto
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   Posted 10/21/2015 6:09 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
John - There is one extra step to N. Grossingink's’s method – it is necessary to go to Document Options > Multimeasure rests > Uncheck "Update Automatically”. This stops the hidden numbers reappearing when you’re about to print the part out.

Andreo Basisto


 
=======================================================
Finale 3.1, 98, 2000, 2011
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John Ruggero
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   Posted 10/21/2015 4:37 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
To me, Ives is more of an enigma than a favorite, but he was creative in his use of musical notation to express what he wanted, and for that he gets an A in my book. However, I've never had an opportunity to study his manuscripts and judge only from his published music like 114 Songs and the Piano Sonatas.

I guess my gut feeling is that Ives was a stunted, fragmented genius who didn't come close to his potential, but I haven't listened to his music in a while. I think that the US has had two composers who could have matched the level of the very greatest: Charles Ives and George Gershwin. One was born too early and the other died too early. Maybe we will get it right next time.

What do you think, RMK?


Mac mini (OS 10.8.5) with dual monitors, Finale 2014d (Finale 2011 as a backup) with GPO 4
Kurzweil Mark 5 with M-Audio Midisport 2 x 2, Adobe InDesign CS4 SmartScore X Pro, JW Plug-ins
www.cantilenapress.com

The better the composer, the better the notation.

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RMK
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   Posted 10/21/2015 1:58 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
(very O/T)

The better the composer, the better the notation.

-------------------------------------------------------

So, I'm guessing Charles Ives is not a favorite of yours?

;>)
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John Ruggero
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   Posted 10/20/2015 9:03 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Thank you, gentlemen, for your help. That is an elegant work-around, but as you well realize, not quite satisfactory from the practical point of view.

Please forgive me, MakeMusic, but I don't understand why the standard multi-meaure rest for double-staffing is a work-around. Could it be because there is no way to keep an expression centered between two staves in Finale?


Mac mini (OS 10.8.5) with dual monitors, Finale 2014d (Finale 2011 as a backup) with GPO 4
Kurzweil Mark 5 with M-Audio Midisport 2 x 2, Adobe InDesign CS4 SmartScore X Pro, JW Plug-ins
www.cantilenapress.com

The better the composer, the better the notation.

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Motet
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   Posted 10/20/2015 5:10 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
To make N. Grossingink's expression perfectly centered between the barlines, add

(Spacing_After_Music - Spacing_Before_Music) / 2

additional horizontal offset to the Center Over/Under Music. These values are specified in Document Options/Notes and Rests, and the default values work out to a negative number (-16 EVPU) (since there is space before but not after, the expression must be shifted left a little).


Finale 2011b, 2005, TGTools
Finale 2014d demo
Windows 7, MIDI input
Finale Transposition Chart

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Zuill
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   Posted 10/20/2015 4:36 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I don't recall how easily the suggestion attributed to me is, but it seems burdensome now that I read it.

I am thinking just adjusting the number so that it centers between the staff is easiest. Then, create an expression of white space to mask the upper number. The only way this might not work is if it bumps into another staff in the score.

Another way is to make the vertical placement amount high enough to shoot it off the page. Then use an expression for the number.

Zuill

P.S.: In all honesty, N. Grossingink's suggestion is the easiest. Go with that.


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Post Edited (Zuill) : 10/20/2015 4:48:55 PM (GMT-5)

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Motet
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   Posted 10/20/2015 4:33 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Sounds like a candidate for a plug-in, if not a new Finale feature.


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Peter Thomsen
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   Posted 10/20/2015 3:25 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I do not know of a general solution that “at one fell swoop” will fix only all the double-staffed instruments without affecting the single-staffed instruments.

My guess is that you will have to edit each multimeasure rest individually:
Selection Tool.
Click the multimeasure rest to select it.
Edit menu > Multimeasure Rests > Edit…
(or use the context menu)
You end in the dialog box Multimeasure Rest.

Two ways:

1) (N. Grossingink):
Edit the MM Rest so that "Start Numbering at…" is a number larger than the rest’s value.
You'll have to use an Expression for the single number.
Set the positioning so that the expression is vertically centered between the staves, and horizontally "Center Over/Under Music".

2) (Zuill):
Use the Staff Tool to hide the MM rest in the upper staff.
In that way the MM number will only appear between the two staves.
You may have to adjust the number’s vertical position.
In the pane Shape, clear the MM rest shape’s shape number, and then click the button “Select…”.
Because the shape number was cleared, you get to the Shape Selection where you can duplicate the MM shape, and edit the duplicate so that the shape displays two H symbols.
Position the added H symbol so that it precisely appears in front of the upper staff.

Peter


Mac Finale, 2011c, 2012c & 2014d, Dolet 6.4 plug-in, Mac OS X 10.9.5, iMac Intel Core i7, 2.93 GHz, 16 GB RAM

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John Ruggero
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   Posted 10/20/2015 2:58 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
How does one create a multi-measure rest for a double-staffed instrument with one large number between the staves?

See attachment.


Mac mini (OS 10.8.5) with dual monitors, Finale 2014d (Finale 2011 as a backup) with GPO 4
Kurzweil Mark 5 with M-Audio Midisport 2 x 2, Adobe InDesign CS4 SmartScore X Pro, JW Plug-ins
www.cantilenapress.com

The better the composer, the better the notation.



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