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Writer of Music
Registered Member

Date Joined Aug 2011
Total Posts : 848

Posted 11/24/2015 9:22 PM (GMT -5)

2014.5 Knows the same problems with spacing as previous versions did. I presume this bug wasn't tackled in order to not make the transition from 2014 to 2014.5 too abrupt?
To put the image in context: this is the first measure on the page, subsequent measures are empty. There is no lock at the end of the system. There are no notes in other instruments under the tuplet in the left hand. Yet, somehow Finale 2014.5 thinks it's reasonable to cramp the 32nd notes in the right hand and make the tuplet in the left hand ridiculously wide.
Oh well, perhaps Finale 2016 — or whatever version is next — may be able to space a measure properly.

Evaluating 2014.5
Mac OS X 10.11.1.

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Christopher Smith
Registered Member

Date Joined Sep 2007
Total Posts : 2290

Posted 11/25/2015 1:42 AM (GMT -5)

Is that one measure of 6/8? I don't see a left barline, which is why I ask. I want to try this myself to see what the problem is.

Christopher Smith

Mac Mini (Late 2014) 2.8 Ghz Intel Core i5, 8GB RAM
OSX Yosemite 10.10.5
Finale 2014.5
or
Macbook Pro (Retina, 13 inch, early 2015) 2.7 Ghz Intel Core i5, 8 GB RAM
OSX Yosemite 10.10.5
Finale 2014.5

Michael Cook
Registered Member

Date Joined Dec 1998
Total Posts : 2526

Posted 11/25/2015 3:35 AM (GMT -5)

Could you post a file that shows this problem?

Michael Cook
Finale 3.0 - 2014.5
Mac OS 10.11.1

Writer of Music
Registered Member

Date Joined Aug 2011
Total Posts : 848

Posted 11/25/2015 6:32 AM (GMT -5)

The time signature is 12/8.
Find attached a document with the offending measure.

Evaluating 2014.5
Mac OS X 10.11.1.

File Attachment :
Spacing problem.musx 332KB (application/octet-stream)

This file has been downloaded 141 time(s).

Michael Cook
Registered Member

Date Joined Dec 1998
Total Posts : 2526

Posted 11/25/2015 7:46 AM (GMT -5)

Here's what's happening: the file is using a spacing width table and the option "Use Default Width If Duration Not In Table" is checked. It would seem that the duration of those triplet notes in not in the table, so they get assigned the default width. If you uncheck that option, the spacing is much better.

Alternatively, use proportional spacing. This is the method I prefer, usually with the values 1024, 96 and 1.4.

Michael Cook
Finale 3.0 - 2014.5
Mac OS 10.11.1

Writer of Music
Registered Member

Date Joined Aug 2011
Total Posts : 848

Posted 11/25/2015 8:43 AM (GMT -5)

That did the trick. Thanks!

I wonder why Finale did not take the default width for the notes not in the spacing table? And shouldn't the minimum distance between items be respected regardless?

Is it possible for MakeMusic to import the user's preferences with a new version? There are a zillion settings scattered all over the app that need to made with every new version and with every .plist deleted because of corruption. And if that's not possible, please provide a list of all settings stored in the preference file and where to find every single setting in Finale.
It's an ever returning annoyance to try and restore the settings I prefer. I'm bound to overlook a number of them, which makes it virtually impossible to keep a fresh copy of the .plist for swapping.

Evaluating 2014.5
Mac OS X 10.11.1.

Post Edited (Writer of Music) : 11/25/2015 6:46:39 AM (GMT-6)

Dr. Wiggy
Early music: modern methods

Date Joined Jun 2006
Total Posts : 12628

Posted 11/25/2015 9:12 AM (GMT -5)

The Finale Preference file (not a .plist) contains application settings found in Preferences, also the various toggle states and options in the menus (MIDI Device input, Out of Range Notes, Show, Lyric Window Options, etc); and the window/palette positions.

Document Options, such as Spacing Widths, and the Default value checkbox, ought be saved with the document. You can of course also create a Library file to load in your document options into old files.

"This is me helping."

Finale 2014.5, 2012 MacMini; 2012 MacBook Pro (10.11.1)
Edirol FA-66; Roland A-49, HP Laserjet 5200 DTN
Ancient Groove Music www.ancientgroove.co.uk

Writer of Music
Registered Member

Date Joined Aug 2011
Total Posts : 848

Posted 11/25/2015 11:02 AM (GMT -5)

That's what I mean: to set ones preferences one needs to go through the program preferences, palettes plus a number of menu's and submenu's.

Evaluating 2014.5
Mac OS X 10.11.1.

Michael Cook
Registered Member

Date Joined Dec 1998
Total Posts : 2526

Posted 11/25/2015 12:03 PM (GMT -5)

Writer of Music said...
That did the trick. Thanks!

I wonder why Finale did not take the default width for the notes not in the spacing table?

Finale was set to use the default width for notes not in the table and that's precisely what it did. Since the default width is (I think) the width normally given to a quarter note, it's much too wide for those triplet 32nds.

If Finale is set not to use the default width, it interpolates width values for notes not in the table by looking at the next nearest widths. This gives much better results.

I don't know why Finale gives the possibility of using the default width for the durations that aren't in the table. Maybe a throwback to an ancient version?

Writer of Music said...
And shouldn't the minimum distance between items be respected regardless?

I think it is. If I take your original file with the original music spacing settings and apply note spacing, the normal 32nd notes are no longer too close together.

Writer of Music said...
It's an ever returning annoyance to try and restore the settings I prefer. I'm bound to overlook a number of them, which makes it virtually impossible to keep a fresh copy of the .plist for swapping.

In Finale it's important to distinguish between program preferences and document options. The program preferences affect the way you work and are the same for all documents, but the document settings are specific to the currently active document: you can have as many different document settings as you have documents.

To save document settings and transfer them to other documents, there are two possibilities:

1. Use libraries. This solution is useful if you wish to transfer the settings of one existing document to another one: save a library from the first document and load it into the second.

2. Use Document Styles. This is the best solution if you want all your new documents to have the same settings: take a document that has all your favourite settings and put a copy of it in your Document Styles folder. This particular style will then be available in the Setup Wizard for any new document. You can create different document styles if, for instance, you prefer one set of settings for orchestral scores and another for piano music, etc.

Michael Cook
Finale 3.0 - 2014.5
Mac OS 10.11.1

Writer of Music
Registered Member

Date Joined Aug 2011
Total Posts : 848

Posted 11/25/2015 12:23 PM (GMT -5)

But the preferences file contains a lot more than just the program options. It also contains window size, palette shape and placement, MIDI configuration and what not. All of that is gone with every new version of Finale (which until recently was an annual event) and has to be reset anew. I have no other application on my system that I need to reconfigure with every upgrade.
It's especially a PITA since Finale tends to corrupt its preferences file fairly often (at least compared to other applications on my system).

However, if this is only cumbersome to me, there is no need to ask MakeMusic for such a "feature".

Evaluating 2014.5
Mac OS X 10.11.1.

N. Grossingink
Registered Member

Date Joined Nov 2002
Total Posts : 3991

Posted 11/25/2015 12:35 PM (GMT -5)

Once you are finished configuring a preferences file, make a backup copy. I make a zip archive and store it in the preferences folder. If your prefs go bad, trash the file, open a copy from the zip and you're good to go.

N.

OSX 10.8.5
Finale 2011c, 2012c for production work
Finale 2014.5

TgTools, Patterson Plugins, JW Change and Staff Polyphony, QuicKeys 4
Mac Mini 2.4 Ghz Intel, 8GB RAM
New Belgium Fat Tire Ale

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Writer of Music
Registered Member

Date Joined Aug 2011
Total Posts : 848

Posted 11/25/2015 4:50 PM (GMT -5)

That's what I do as well.
However, with every new version of Finale (even with the new 'half-version' 2014.5) the backup file becomes useless and one has to setup a whole new preferences file from scratch.

Evaluating 2014.5
Mac OS X 10.11.1.

Michael Cook
Registered Member

Date Joined Dec 1998
Total Posts : 2526

Posted 11/26/2015 9:31 AM (GMT -5)

Writer of Music said...
That's what I do as well.
However, with every new version of Finale (even with the new 'half-version' 2014.5) the backup file becomes useless and one has to setup a whole new preferences file from scratch.

I've often redone the preferences from scratch. I've got used to it: it may be a drag, but it doesn't actually take long. In any case it has no bearing on the problem that caused you to start this thread: the music spacing settings are all saved with the particular document, not with the program preferences.

Michael Cook
Finale 3.0 - 2014.5
Mac OS 10.11.1

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