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peerlessnerd
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   Posted 1/7/2016 2:40 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Yes, this may be OT for this forum, but 11 X 17 parts are critical for my clients.
Is there any hope for my beloved HP LaserJet 5000n printer, which printed fine under Yosemite, but won’t print under El Capitan?
The printer is visible and available as always, but refuses to come out of “idle” mode with the message “the printer is not responding.”

Does anybody have an HP 5000 series printer working under El Capitan? There is nothing I can find on the HP or Apple forums thus far.


Finale 2014.5
Early 2008 Mac Pro Quad-Core 3,1
El Capitan 10.11.2

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Dr. Wiggy
Early music: modern methods



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   Posted 1/7/2016 3:32 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
It should work: it sounds like it's just a question of connection. Is this EC system upgraded from yosemite, where the printer worked?

Check that OS X is pointing to the correct IP address.


"This is me helping."

Finale 2014.5, 2012 MacMini; 2012 MacBook Pro (10.11.1)
Edirol FA-66; Roland A-49, HP Laserjet 5200 DTN
Ancient Groove Music www.ancientgroove.co.uk

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peerlessnerd
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   Posted 1/7/2016 5:25 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I did update everything from Yosemite to El Capitan. The update went perfectly, with 2014.5 markedly faster on EC and everything stable. I was very happy until I tried to print.

The printer is linked to my MacPro with an ordinary Cat 5 cable into the JetDirect port. According to a configuration page printout, the IP Address is 192.0.0.192 and the Subnet Mask is “Not Specified.”
I’ve entered the IP address in every available Ethernet 2 option available, but the “printer is not responding” message persists.

Is it possible to use Time Machine to go back and look up the exact printer settings from Yosemite? (But they appeared to transfer fine… they simply no longer work.) Any further thoughts are greatly appreciated


Finale 2014.5
Early 2008 Mac Pro Quad-Core 3,1
El Capitan 10.11.2

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Dr. Wiggy
Early music: modern methods



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   Posted 1/8/2016 2:10 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
peerlessnerd said...
the IP Address is 192.0.0.192 and the Subnet Mask is “Not Specified.”

And what is the IP address for the Ethernet port on your Mac? Ideally, the two should match up.

For instance, my HP 5200 is 192.168.2.5, and my Mac's Ethernet port is 192.168.2.1. Subnet mask is 255.255.255.0 on both.

If you type 192.0.0.192 into Safari, do you get the JetDirect control panel? If you type "telnet 192.0.0.192" into Terminal, can you connect to the printer that way? You should be able to configure the network settings of the printer using those methods. If you can't, then you can do it on the physical control panel on the top of the printer.


"This is me helping."

Finale 2014.5, 2012 MacMini; 2012 MacBook Pro (10.11.1)
Edirol FA-66; Roland A-49, HP Laserjet 5200 DTN
Ancient Groove Music www.ancientgroove.co.uk

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peerlessnerd
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   Posted 1/9/2016 2:02 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
My requests for help on the HP forums go unanswered. Given the huge percentage of other unanswered pleas there, my HP experience seems typical. Your responses are a all the more valuable and appreciated!

According to Software Update my computer is completely up to date. I downloaded the entire array of drivers again from HP, but there is no 5000n driver. This isn’t a surprise, as under Yosemite (and dating back to Lion or Snow Leopard?) my 5000n has used a “generic” driver which no longer seems to work under El Cap.

When I type 192.0.0.192 into safari or “telnet 192.0.0.192” into terminal, there is “no such file or directory.” I do not get the JetDirect control panel. Apparently, a generic driver does not use JetDirect.

Terminal eventually responds, “trying 192.0.0.192: Operation timed out, and “Unable to connect to remote host.”

According to HP, 192.0.0.192 is the factory default for my printer.

My ethernet port is 169.254.80.1 I cannot see any subnet mask info except 255.255.255.0

I do have credible directions on how to alter my printer default directly from the printer control panel. Would you suggest 169.254.80.2 or some other address?


Finale 2014.5
Early 2008 Mac Pro Quad-Core 3,1
El Capitan 10.11.2

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Dr. Wiggy
Early music: modern methods



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   Posted 1/10/2016 4:45 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
The HP 5000 is listed in the list of currently supported printers on Apple's website.
/support.apple.com/en-us/HT201465

But if you want, I can send you the PPD. I can't imagine why a generic PPD wouldn't work: it's a Postscript (compatible) printer, so it doesn't need much in the way of drivers.

I suggest the following:

1. Set your computer's Ethernet IP to 192.168.2.1, with a subnet mask of 255.255.255.0.
2. Set your printer's Ethernet address to another value in the same subnet, e.g. 192.168.2.5.
3. Make sure the Ethernet service is below the WiFi one in System Prefs> Network, to ensure that WiFi gets first look at network connections.
4. You should now be able to create a JetDirect print queue using the IP address. You should also be able to access the web control panel once your computer and printer are on the same subnet.

A 169.x.x.x IP address is a self-assigned address, which the computer gives itself when it can't find a DHCP server. There's no guarantee you'll get the same one next time, so you need to manually configure it.


"This is me helping."

Finale 2014.5, 2012 MacMini; 2012 MacBook Pro (10.11.1)
Edirol FA-66; Roland A-49, HP Laserjet 5200 DTN
Ancient Groove Music www.ancientgroove.co.uk

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Motet
Isorhythmic



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   Posted 1/10/2016 12:55 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I have an HP 5000 on Windows. I've got an HP driver called "Universal Print Driver", I think. I would see what they suggest for the Mac, since a generic driver won't give you access to all the features like choosing the paper tray, duplexer, etc.

I think JetDirect is too old to do DHCP. I put my printer on a different subnet from Wifi (Wifi is on 192.168.1.X, printer is on 192.168.0.X). It's not a big deal to change the IP address with the buttons on the printer, but let me know if you need help.


Finale 2014.5, 2011b, 2005, TGTools
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peerlessnerd
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   Posted 1/11/2016 3:50 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Success! My thanks to Motet and especially Wiggy!

Here is the solution to making your HP 5000n (and perhaps any 5000 series) print under El Capitan 10.11.2. My Mac Pro (Early 2008) is connected to the printer with a typical “cat 5” cable.

Disclaimer: I am a dinosaur and need extensive hand-holding when digging into the bowels of computers, about which I know nothing. Here are the exact steps that worked for me:

Determine your Ethernet port IP address:
In System Preferences>Network, my Ethernet Port was 169.254.80.1 with a subnet mask of 255.255.0.0
In Configure IPv4, select “Manually” and change the IP address to 192.168.2.1 with a subnet mask of 255.255.255.0 (Thank you Wiggy!)

2) Using the control panel buttons on the printer, navigate to the EIO1 JetDirect Menu. Change the TCP/IP Menu from the default NO to YES using the Value button and hit Select. A “*” will appear confirming your selection. You must hit the Select button at every prompt to confirm all the choices in this process.

3) Toggle to BOOTP=YES, and toggle it to read BOOTP=NO and hit Select to get the *. Using the Item switch you can now manually change the address of the printer, which for me was the default 192.0.0.192
(Though recognized under Yosemite and all the way back to Snow Leopard, El Capitan apparently no longer recognizes this default address.)
Change the address to 192.168.2.5 (Thanks again to Wiggy.) It is a 4-step process of toggles, values, and selects. Proceed through the SM menu (Subnet Mask) with the same process. Change it to 255.255.255.0
making certain you hit Select to get that * confirming each number.
Hit “Go” to exit all the menus. For me nothing else in the printer needed configuration.

4) In System Preferences>Printers & Scanners use the + button to create a new “generic” printer. (Do not search for an HP driver.) Assign the address 192.168.2.5 with Subnet Mask 255.255.255.0 to match the numbers in the printer.
(I could find no way to update the address of the prior printer. It is likely possible in Terminal, which frightens me because I’ve no idea what I’m doing.)

That fixed it for me! Be certain you are printing to your “new” printer and not your “old” printer, which was likely the default.

For my HP LaserJet 5000n I have been using a “generic printer driver” since Snow Leopard. There is no alternative I can find. The HP website does list a driver for the 5000 series, but it seems to be PC only. There is no driver to download for Mac, and hasn’t been for years.
My machine has no JetDirect software. I have never updated my 5000n firmware.
Also, be certain your Ethernet port appears below your Wi-Fi in the Networks menu, or you will be forced to disable Wi-Fi to print.
Again, my thanks to Motet and especially Wiggy here. Their advice is always sage. It was Wiggy’s guidance that worked for me this instance. I’d guess if I were more adept, Motet’s ideas would have worked too.

Changing the addresses on the printer is confusing at first. These directions from the 5000n manual may help.


EIO Menu (Continued)

Item
CFG TCP/IP=NO
Values
Explanation

NO YES
NO: The TCP/IP Menu is not accessible.
YES: The TCP/IP Menu appears. In the TCP/IP Menu, you can specify BOOTP=YES for TCP/IP parameters to be automatically loaded from a bootp or DHCP server when the printer is turned on. If you specify BOOTP=NO, you can manually set selected TCP/IP parameters from the control panel. You can manually set each byte of the IP address (IP), Subnet Mask (SM), Syslog Server (LG), and Default Gateway (GW). Also, you can manually set the Timeout time period.
Note
If no IP address is assigned within the first 5 minutes, the HP JetDirect print server card will assume a default IP address of 192.0.0.192.


Finale 2014.5
Early 2008 Mac Pro Quad-Core 3,1
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Dr. Wiggy
Early music: modern methods



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   Posted 1/12/2016 2:20 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
peerlessnerd said...
For my HP LaserJet 5000n I have been using a “generic printer driver” since Snow Leopard. There is no alternative I can find. The HP website does list a driver for the 5000 series, but it seems to be PC only. There is no driver to download for Mac, and hasn’t been for years.
My machine has no JetDirect software. I have never updated my 5000n firmware.

As I said, the 5000 is listed as a device currently supported by Apple. Turn on the printer, then check for Apple Software Updates. An HP Printer package should be there.
If not, give me your email in a PM and I will send you the PPD.

Might be worth updating the Firmware. When you install HP printer drivers, there's an HP Utility app that you can use to do that. Download the firmware from HP.

As said, you should now be able to access your printer's IP address in Safari to control it.


"This is me helping."

Finale 2014.5, 2012 MacMini; 2012 MacBook Pro (10.11.1)
Edirol FA-66; Roland A-49, HP Laserjet 5200 DTN
Ancient Groove Music www.ancientgroove.co.uk

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Motet
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   Posted 1/12/2016 10:03 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
You should be able to talk to the printer via HTTP with a browser. I have no special software on Windows.


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rpmseattle
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   Posted 1/12/2016 4:56 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I ran into this same thing a couple of OS versions ago with my 5100 printers. I found I was no longer able to connect the printer directly to the computer using an Ethernet cable - printer would stall out as yours did. I was initially able to do the manual IP assignment trick that you describe. but wanted access to the internet at the same time I was using my printer, and so, eventually found the solution impractical.

However, using hardware you can bypass these changes one of two ways; by:

(a) Inserting a 4 port ethernet switch between the printer and the computer so it is "legally networked" according to Apple's newer spec. $30 or so at any office supply place.
(b) Buy a used Jet Direct Internal Print Server Part # J2341A USB card for your printer, and connect it to your computer via USB. I got a used one a couple of years ago on eBay for $25, and worth every penny. I see they are going on eBay now for anywhere from $15-$80.

Hope that helps, Norm.

~Robert


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peerlessnerd
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   Posted 1/13/2016 12:31 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Wiggy-
According to software update I am fully up to date, including the HP Printer package. I did find the 5000 series driver, but as rpmseattle confirms, my printer "stalls out" so the computer could not “find” the printer using it. There was no driver specifically for the 5000n, just the 5000 series. (Unclear if there is a difference between a 5000 and 5000n in terms of PPD.) The Apple generic driver did work, and was the only functional option once you sorted out my IP addresses. (But I’ve really no clue what I’m doing.)

Ahhh, so the reason I lost printer connection and had these issues after Yosemite may be obsolete HP 5000 series firmware! That may have been a solution for rpmseattle too, though Robert is savvy enough to have thought of that. I'm not that savvy. Now we understand why my adventures in Terminal were a failure. It is unclear exactly how I would have updated my firmware when my computer could not make contact with the printer to do the update.

With updated firmware I’d guess El Capitan would have printed from day 1, thus eliminating this long thread.

Motet and/or Wiggy-

When I type the IP address of my now-functioning 5000n into Safari I get the response “Macintosh OS is not supported to run this application.” Is this normal?

I’d also forgotten my friend rpmseattle had elderly HP printers too. I should have thought to consult him early in this process.
His USB solution is elegant and one to consider for next time. My MacPro happens to have two ethernet ports on different addresses, so I never had internet connection verses printer conflicts. My 5000n is the only device using a cat 5 cable. Everything else is wireless or USB.

I’m not one to fix things that aren’t broken. Thanks to all the help here, currently my printer is working exactly as it should. I’ve no need to make any changes at this point. I’ve taken copious notes of all these suggestions for next time.
Hopefully this extended conversation will help other users.


Finale 2014.5
Early 2008 Mac Pro Quad-Core 3,1
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Dr. Wiggy
Early music: modern methods



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   Posted 1/13/2016 2:19 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
peerlessnerd said...
There was no driver specifically for the 5000n, just the 5000 series. (Unclear if there is a difference between a 5000 and 5000n in terms of PPD.) The Apple generic driver did work, and was the only functional option once you sorted out my IP addresses. (But I’ve really no clue what I’m doing.)

The 5000 series PPD covers all the different models in the range: the 5000n, 5000d, 5000dtn. They are essentially all the same printer, but with n = network, d= duplex, t = tray. The one PPD includes all the options for all models.

peerlessnerd said...
When I type the IP address of my now-functioning 5000n into Safari I get the response “Macintosh OS is not supported to run this application.” Is this normal?

Ah yes, I remember, on the 5000, you have to spoof the user agent. Turn on the Developer menu in Safari Preferences > Advanced. There's a menu item to change the user agent to Internet Explorer. Then it should work.

peerlessnerd said...
Ahhh, so the reason I lost printer connection and had these issues after Yosemite may be obsolete HP 5000 series firmware!

Yes, it's always good to update the firmware, in case they have fixed problems like this. NB: both the JetDirect card and the printer have separate firmware and updates!

One other thing you might check, is that by default OS X uses Gigabit Ethernet. In Network > Ethernet > Hardware, there's a speed setting for 1000Base T. When I connected my ancient G4 iMac to my 2012 Mini via Ethernet, they wouldn't talk to each other. Only when I reduced the speed on the Mini would they connect. The 5000 only does 10BaseT, if I remember correctly, so there may be a similar issue.

I have to say it was things like this that made me move up to a 5200: it's significantly faster, handles Postscript level 3, has better networking (Bonjour discoverable). Oh and native PDF interpretation. And the duplexer is better designed. My last paper jam was March last year, and I've done over 25000 sheets since then. Also, the price of the cartridges for the 5000 and 5100 seemed to start going up, as they got older and less supported.

Robert is right that you should look into the hardware add-ons that you can get for the printer: a newer network card might help. Also make sure you've maxed out the RAM, which will help performance.


"This is me helping."

Finale 2014.5, 2012 MacMini; 2012 MacBook Pro (10.11.1)
Edirol FA-66; Roland A-49, HP Laserjet 5200 DTN
Ancient Groove Music www.ancientgroove.co.uk

Post Edited (Wiggy) : 1/13/2016 3:35:51 AM (GMT-6)

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peerlessnerd
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   Posted 1/14/2016 4:15 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Wiggy your prowess and memory is a constant source of computer amazement for me! Now I’m to “spoof my user agent, and reduce my 1000Base T for my ancient printer??

Are you sure that is legal in the United States?? : )

I’m told by brain surgeons that brain surgery is easy if you are a brain surgeon, and E=mc squared makes perfect sense if you are Einstein. I am neither.
But thanks to your help I’ve come this far into my realm of the computer unknown. I will attempt further brain surgery on my user agent, take the square root off my Base T, and harden my firmware.

I also agree the fuser in my 5000n, which I purchased “reconditioned” by HP from a prior user, could fail at any moment. At that point I will abandon rather than repair.

Actually, every year I sell more music, but print fewer pages. Increasingly my clients ask specifically for PDFs. It can’t be too many more years before I’m printing almost nothing.

25,000 copies is a lot. I’m surprised you too aren’t seeing PDFs reducing your printing load, but good for you and Ancient Groove!


Finale 2014.5
Early 2008 Mac Pro Quad-Core 3,1
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Dr. Wiggy
Early music: modern methods



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   Posted 1/14/2016 4:57 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
The User Agent is just the ID of the browser: a webpage can check what browser is being used and run different instructions accordingly. But a browser can pretend to be someone else, for testing.

10BaseT is just the speed of the data down the cable. 10 Bits/second, 100, 1000...

The 5000, 5100 and 5200 printers are designed to do 10,000 sheets a month, so mine is getting off lightly. I can never tell if it counts A3 sheets as twice an A4 one, or not. I keep a spreadsheet of the page count and date when I change a toner cartridge. In the last 3.5 years, since I bought it, I've done 85,000 sheets. I bought it secondhand for about £300, ex-bankrupt stock, refurbed with only 12,000 pages on the clock. I've maxed out the RAM and added an HP hard drive module, so I can store print jobs on it.

I rarely let PDFs out of the house. I already get emails that read "I run a choir of 200 people, and I'd like to buy one copy of your music, please." :p
I guess the time will come when choirs will all have their libraries on iPads. Not quite sure what I'll do then.


"This is me helping."

Finale 2014.5, 2012 MacMini; 2012 MacBook Pro (10.11.1)
Edirol FA-66; Roland A-49, HP Laserjet 5200 DTN
Ancient Groove Music www.ancientgroove.co.uk

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Ere
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   Posted 1/14/2016 6:56 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Wiggy said...
I guess the time will come when choirs will all have their libraries on iPads. Not quite sure what I'll do then.

One solution to that problem might be to simply change your motto to "Early music: ancient methods". :p


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Ward Baxter
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   Posted 2/11/2016 1:48 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Thanks for this thread and the detailed solutions. Wiggy, I think you used to have a 5000, right? Mine is fully upgraded, so I guess it's a "DTN" now: 500 tray, 250 tray, duplexer, jetdirect and upgraded RAM. When you switched to 5200, does any of that carry over, or just "out with the old, in with the new"? My needs for large format printing is greatly reduced, but still a crucial part of my life and livelihood. I've maintained the printer well with regular service and replacements, but the thought of no more jamming sounds pretty great. I loved this printer for 11x17 duplex but the fact that it does manual 12x18 has been a game changer. Since others may be looking at this thread for current options of this great printer, is the 5200 still recommended, or is there a newer-fandangled-über-large-format printer out there?


Ward Baxter
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Dr. Wiggy
Early music: modern methods



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   Posted 2/11/2016 2:36 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
No, I don't think you can use any of the parts from the 5000 on the 5200. You could switch stuff between the 5000 and 5100, as the 100 was just slightly improved electronics on the same hardware. The 5200 is completely revised hardware: as I say the duplexer is much more reliable. It needs much faster RAM, too. The toner cartridges are different, too, as I found the older cartridges were getting more expensive and not stocked.

I have a deal with a local firm: if I promise to buy toner exclusively from them, servicing is free (except parts). Their cartridges are £100, which is cheaper than HP, but not bargain basement, though the quality of the toner is really good-- nice and black with no rub-off. Most of the moving parts are in the cartridge anyway. But they'll come round and open it up and clean it every year for nothing.

I'm sure there are other printers that work just as well, or better, but I love the 5200.


"This is me helping."

Finale 2014.5, 2012 MacMini; 2012 MacBook Pro (10.11.3)
Edirol FA-66; Roland A-49, HP Laserjet 5200 DTN
Ancient Groove Music www.ancientgroove.co.uk

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