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Thomas Eberth
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   Posted 2/12/2016 10:08 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I'm thinking about buying E. Gould's book "Behind Bars" (in the German translation "Hals über Kopf"). As it is quite expensive, I would like to know if it's worth its price. Does it offer something new to me, who read the books from Herbet Chlapik, Gardner Read,Ted Ross and Albert C. Vinci?

Thomas


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Dr. Wiggy
Early music: modern methods



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   Posted 2/12/2016 10:30 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
It's a very well laid-out volume, and easy to take down and find the bit you're after. It represents the house style at Faber, mostly, so there are some matters that some prefer otherwise, but it is for the most part authoritative, and it is comprehensive in its scope.

Personally, I seek out as many works on music notation as I can!


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N. Grossingink
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   Posted 2/12/2016 10:36 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I recommend it highly. The range of topics is very broad and topics presented in a logical manner. The only other reference that comes close is Gardner Read, which I find difficult to use because various topics are sprinkled throughout the book. Elaine Gould has done a very good job of organizing the material. I'm glad I picked it up.

N.


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mknoll
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   Posted 2/12/2016 12:07 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I agree that it's quite comprehensive and well structured, but I find the index to be rather minimal and frustrating.


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David Ward
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   Posted 2/12/2016 12:42 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I find it very useful and wide-ranging and strongly recommend it.

So far I haven't found the index seriously lacking, but sometimes one does have to seek synonyms or use the index jointly with the chapter sub-headings.

Some US readers have said that they find its style a tad too informal; but then I (from the UK) have sometimes found Gardner Read's more academic style a wee bit arid …

EDIT: Quite how Elaine Gould's apparent informality might come across in a German translation is another matter!


David Ward
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Post Edited (David Ward) : 2/12/2016 10:53:45 AM (GMT-6)

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Charles Lawrence
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   Posted 2/12/2016 2:51 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Currently Amazon Prime has the work for $67.85 US.  Curiously it has used copies from other vendors ranging from $68.71 to a whopping $2000.00!!!!!  This can't be right.  New copies from other vendors range from $63.73 to $123.73.  Note the lowest price for a used copy from other vendors is higher than the lowest price for a new copy from other vendors.  Curious!


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Motet
Isorhythmic



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   Posted 2/12/2016 3:03 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I think the Amazon resellers prices are often set by computer, which is responsible for the pricing oddity.

I was able to score a new copy for $50 on amazon.com, but of course not the German edition.


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OCTO.
The radical answers.



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   Posted 2/12/2016 3:28 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Definitely recommend.

Some reflections here:
/www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=gould+site:notat.io


NOTAT.IO - NOTATION FORUM

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Michel R. E.
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   Posted 2/12/2016 3:58 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I had ordered the book when it was first announced, directly from the publisher.
I don't think I've stopped reading it since.

I carry it with me every time I take the long bus ride into the city. And I never tire of reading it. Some chapters I've yet only skimmed, others I've almost memorized.

I was always hunting for something new to read. Now I have this book which serves as one of my two "go to" books (the other is a Samuel Barber biography).


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ttw
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   Posted 2/12/2016 5:13 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Based on prices I've seen on other books, I'd guess that the $2000 is actually $20.00. I have a couple of books that I bought (remaindered) between $10 and $20 listed for $5000 but further exploration showed that these were used copies at $5.00.


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Mike Rosen
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   Posted 2/12/2016 5:51 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Also highly recommended from here!

It's my first "go to" (assuming I need more info than from the Essential Manual of Music Notation!)



Mike Rosen
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John Ruggero
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   Posted 2/12/2016 6:35 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I put off buying this book for several years, owing to its title, which didn't reassure me as to its quality. But now that I have, I am much more impressed with it than I thought I would be, consult it regularly and open it at random to learn something new. The organization of the material is excellent and the information, trustworthy. There are omissions, debatable things etc., but as a whole the book is a major achievement.

My biggest disappointment with the book is its lack of a historical perspective and the lack of many musical examples from the repertoire. (The examples were mostly fabricated for the book.) But then again, it is just a style guide to contemporary engraving practice, not a history of music notation.

I do find her writing style awkward at times and hope that that this has been improved in the German translation.


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David Ward
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   Posted 2/12/2016 7:16 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
John Ruggero said...
I put off buying this book for several years, owing to its title, which didn't reassure me as to its quality.
Perhaps the US edition should have a different title (a common enough practice).
John Ruggero said...
I do find her writing style awkward at times and hope that that this has been improved in the German translation.
Again, this may be a US versus UK thing (or it may be more to do with individual temperament), but I have found that Elaine Gould's style has made me WANT to do what she recommends, whereas certain other books on these matters have seemed hectoring in a school-masterish sort of way, and thus liable to be resisted, at least by someone of my recklessly rebellious, thrawn and contrary temperament.


David Ward
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Finale 2010b with Mac 10.6.8
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Post Edited (David Ward) : 2/12/2016 5:20:20 PM (GMT-6)

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Charles Lawrence
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   Posted 2/12/2016 8:28 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Thrawn - had to look that one up in my Funk & Wagnall's! smilewinkgrin


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Claus
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   Posted 2/12/2016 8:57 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Hello Thomas,

I am working with the english original (though native German), can't remember if it was for price reasons at ama...., but I think it's comprehensive enough, if you are aware of english terminology to some extent.

I think that some modern phenomenons of "notation common practice" especially when dealing with jazz/bigband writing are not addressed, but nevertheless I highly recommend it.

If you do want to take a look at my copy, before deciding to buy- I am working in Dierdorf every Tuesday and thursday....

best wishes

Claus
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Thomas Eberth
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   Posted 2/13/2016 6:53 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Thank you all for helping me to make my decision to buy the book.

Claus, thanks for your offer to have a look into the book. What I read above sounds so well that I'm sure the book is worth the 89 €.

Thomas


Thomas Eberth
____________________
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working for:
www.butz-musikverlag.de
working with:
Finale 2014d (German version) on Mac OS X Yosemite (iMac), TG-Tools

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N. Grossingink
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   Posted 2/13/2016 8:47 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Charles Lawrence said...
Thrawn - had to look that one up in my Funk & Wagnall's! smilewinkgrin


scotlandwelcomesyou.com/scottish-sayings/


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Finale 2011c, 2012c for production work
Finale 2014.5

TgTools, Patterson Plugins, JW Change and Staff Polyphony, QuicKeys 4
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New Belgium Fat Tire Ale

• "It should be the emigrated Loch Ness." (to the basses)
• "We do it Wiener Schule kind of poco apostrophe."
• "Could I see lead being sacrificed on the paper?"

–conductor Leif Segerstam

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Mike Rosen
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   Posted 2/13/2016 12:26 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Sort of reminds me of the story when two elderly ladies were on a tour of Wales. They were in a restaurant in a town with a name of about 36 letters, mostly consonants. When the waitress came by, they asked, "could you tell us where we are?"

The waitress replied, very slowly, "Bur-ger King."



Mike Rosen
www.specialmillwork.com

Bass with Choir of the Sound www.choirofthesound.org
Volunteer copyist (The Gang of Twelve) for the Barbershop Harmony Society
FINALE TIPS at www.specialmillwork.com/finale-tips-and-tricks/index.html

Finale 2014.5 on El Capitan
Simple Entry, QWERTY keyboard, numberpad. That's my system, and I'm stickin' to it.

"As a musician, he's a damn fine woodworker."

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Piotr Kolodziej
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   Posted 2/15/2016 7:29 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Hallo,

ich habe beide Versionen gekauft. Beide finde ich als sehr gute Quellen für den Notensatzregeln.
Peters Ausgabe hat ein bisschen andere Notenbeispiele. Ich finde das Buch sehr empfehlenswert.

Piotr Kolodziej / studio orfeo • orfeo.pl

/van.creatavist.com/polnische-notensetzer


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John Ruggero
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   Posted 2/15/2016 12:02 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Danke für die deutsche Sprache Aufgabe, PIOTR. Ich verstehe alles! Verstehen Sie warum die musikalischen Beispielen sind verschieden in die Peters Ausgabe?


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Piotr Kolodziej
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   Posted 2/15/2016 12:07 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
So viel ich weiß, die Ausgabe soll besser an die deutschen Musikverlage/Notensatz-Regeln angepasst sein (das weiß ich von einem Redakteur, von einem großen deutschen Musikverlag).
Ich habe selbst die Bücher nicht verglichen, aber beide finde super.

LG, Piotr


Piotr Kolodziej / studio orfeo s.c.
www.orfeo.pl
Interview on Music engraving /van.creatavist.com/polnische-notensetzer

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John Ruggero
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   Posted 2/15/2016 7:36 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Sehr interessant, Piotr. Vielleicht Gould soll eine amerikanische Ausgabe auch machen. Ich habe einige Dinge wie Klavier Pedal Zeichnungen gefunden, die in Grossbritannien verschieden sind. See notat.io/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=75


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The better the composer, the better the notation.

Post Edited (John Ruggero) : 2/16/2016 1:56:07 PM (GMT-6)

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Knut
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   Posted 2/16/2016 1:06 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
John,

dein Link fugiert leider nicht.


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Charles Lawrence
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   Posted 2/16/2016 1:48 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I took two years of German in college back when dinosaurs roamed the earth, was never "immersed" but for the last quarter, and therefore remember very little.  Google Translate has helped me get the gist of the conversation.  All you have to do is click in the broken link URL and suck out the beginning erroneous characters "see%20http//" and it will work.


"Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about!"

Windows 10 Professional (x64) (build 10586)
 
3.50 gigahertz Intel Core i7-5930K, Multi-core (6 total), Hyper-threaded (12 total)
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NVIDIA GeForce GTX 980 - 4GB [Display adapter]
ASUS Rampage V Extreme motherboard, Realtek HD Audio

Finale 2014.5.6359
Garritan GPO4.02


Cakewalk SONAR X3 - (X3e build 244) - x64, Sound Forge Audio Studio 10.0, Audacity 2.1.0
Sharpeye 2.68, PhotoScore Ultimate 7.0.2, SmartScore X2 Pro 10.5.8

"There is a world of difference between a person who has a big problem and a person who makes a problem big." – John Maxwell

Post Edited (Charles Lawrence) : 2/16/2016 5:51:35 PM (GMT-6)

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John Ruggero
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   Posted 2/16/2016 3:59 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Danke, Knut und Charles! Es ist nun richtig.


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The better the composer, the better the notation.

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