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RV
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   Posted 3/20/2016 8:51 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Dear Finale community - (and hopefully someone in charge of the development of this app).

I have decided to challenge you in this little task... to see how many of you actually manage at all (or, at least take the time for it).

Since YEARS I have wondered why Finale doesn't correct this MAJOR error !!?? (Albeit - so bad, that it's funny... unless you really need the feature).
The function; Utilities->Change->Note Duration is creating amazing results for an app that is supposed to be leading in the market.

As a "learning" engraver -in the Jazz field, I have started out as creating scores (some years ago) with my classical knowledge.
This is a common mistake of engravers not actually playing jazz-music actively.
- When having actually played really fast scores (like quarter = 250) it gets clear WHY the jazz people write in half-time. It's just simply easier to read.
(Besides that it makes sense, musicology-wise, if you look at the development of the music).

Now, that Finale doesn't have a possibility to double/half speed of a score correctly, amazes me quite a lot!
This is a very basic function, that should be possible to do - without errors!! - no matter if you are re-creating Jazz-scores or not!


I upload here two files (of a somewhat modified Tower of Power Horn-Chart),
And I ask all of you wizards to have a look at it !! :p

If you are really good at Finale; take out your Stop-watch - and have a go for it! cool


Good Luck!


(Created with Finale 2014.5)


RV
iMac (12,1), 2,5GHz, 8Gb RAM
Finale 2014.5 (2014d, 2012, 2008, 2005, 2003, v.3, v.1.1)
Logic Pro 10.1
Lexicon i-ONIX FW810S
OS 10.11.3

www.aenigma-edition.com



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Dr. Wiggy
Early music: modern methods



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   Posted 3/20/2016 9:21 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
The main issue is that Finale does not change the duration of default whole rests when you want to double everything.

Jari's JW Meter and Rhythm plug-in will half or double time excellently.


"This is me helping."

Finale 2014.5, 2012 MacMini; 2012 MacBook Pro (10.11.3)
Edirol FA-66; Roland A-49, HP Laserjet 5200 DTN
Ancient Groove Music www.ancientgroove.co.uk

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RV
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   Posted 3/20/2016 9:26 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Yup.
- I just think it's amazing that I need this PLUG-IN for this extremely basic operation!
(We talked about this issue before, Wiggy... I remember!!).

Actually, thinking of it;
- I remember that I Downloaded Jari's PlugIn after your hint, last time... but I think it didn't actually work 100% as I hoped it would.
Albeit - A LOT better than Finale's function!! : )


RV
iMac (12,1), 2,5GHz, 8Gb RAM
Finale 2014.5 (2014d, 2012, 2008, 2005, 2003, v.3, v.1.1)
Logic Pro 10.2.2
OS 10.11.3

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RV
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   Posted 3/20/2016 9:36 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
huaaah!
- Just had a look at the new version of Meter & Rhythm !! FANTASTIC!!

Jari saved my problems in a whiff !


RV
iMac (12,1), 2,5GHz, 8Gb RAM
Finale 2014.5 (2014d, 2012, 2008, 2005, 2003, v.3, v.1.1)
Logic Pro 10.2.2
OS 10.11.3

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RV
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   Posted 3/20/2016 9:53 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Well, actually - it doesn't !! (...or am I just too dumb???)
Did you try it, Wiggy ?? (need some assistance here).


RV
iMac (12,1), 2,5GHz, 8Gb RAM
Finale 2014.5 (2014d, 2012, 2008, 2005, 2003, v.3, v.1.1)
Logic Pro 10.2.2
OS 10.11.3

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RV
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   Posted 3/20/2016 9:56 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
My wish would of course be:
Select a bunch of measures (even those who include a change of key, double-bars...or whatever) - and with ONE command; change the selection
to twice, or half as fast correctly.


RV
iMac (12,1), 2,5GHz, 8Gb RAM
Finale 2014.5 (2014d, 2012, 2008, 2005, 2003, v.3, v.1.1)
Logic Pro 10.2.2
OS 10.11.3

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RV
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   Posted 3/20/2016 10:29 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
A Quick hint;
After having done it quite often, I have now come to the conclusion that the most SECURE and efficient way of proceding is:

1) Insert a measure-stack AFTER each and every Bar (you want to change) ! (sigh... yes).
2) Change the duration of the Notes (here) to 200% - WITHOUT checking "Rebar Music" !!!!!!!!
3) With the Note-Insert tool (I use Speedy Entry) - select a bar that is changed, and skip to the next bar (shift + arrow right). Select "Move the extra notes to the next measure".
repeat for all changed bars.


Tedious, indeed!


RV
iMac (12,1), 2,5GHz, 8Gb RAM
Finale 2014.5 (2014d, 2012, 2008, 2005, 2003, v.3, v.1.1)
Logic Pro 10.2.2
OS 10.11.3

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N. Grossingink
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   Posted 3/20/2016 10:37 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Wiggy said...
The main issue is that Finale does not change the duration of default whole rests when you want to double everything.


There is a plugin called "Change to Real Whole Rests" in the "Note, Beam and Rests" plugin folder.

Does doing this help at all?

N.


OSX 10.8.5
Finale 2011c, 2012c for production work
Finale 2014.5

TgTools, Patterson Plugins, JW Change and Staff Polyphony, QuicKeys 4
Mac Mini 2.4 Ghz Intel, 8GB RAM
New Belgium Fat Tire Ale

“The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once.”
–Albert Einstein

“And as you know, you don’t tell time–time tells you.”
–George Carlin

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RV
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   Posted 3/20/2016 11:17 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
N. Grossingink said...


There is a plugin called "Change to Real Whole Rests" in the "Note, Beam and Rests" plugin folder.

Does doing this help at all?

N.



Well, it DOES resolve the issue of getting extremely erroneous bar-conversions (e.g. the first two bars in my examples).
but - it surely doesn't help the correct conversion of the whole piece, concerning key-changes etcetera....


RV
iMac (12,1), 2,5GHz, 8Gb RAM
Finale 2014.5 (2014d, 2012, 2008, 2005, 2003, v.3, v.1.1)
Logic Pro 10.2.2
OS 10.11.3

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RV
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   Posted 3/20/2016 11:23 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
maybe I should be fair enough and correct my saying that Finale is creating a "Major ERROR"...
- The Program DOES actually do what it says in the Utility; Change the NOTE-DURATION.
What I don't understand is why is there not an additional "Change complete score, including rests" checkbox in the utility.
(Where the Application would KEEP the created double-bars, key-changes...etc. - in the right position).


RV
iMac (12,1), 2,5GHz, 8Gb RAM
Finale 2014.5 (2014d, 2012, 2008, 2005, 2003, v.3, v.1.1)
Logic Pro 10.2.2
OS 10.11.3

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N. Grossingink
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   Posted 3/20/2016 11:41 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
RV said...
Well, it DOES resolve the issue of getting extremely erroneous bar-conversions (e.g. the first two bars in my examples).
but - it surely doesn't help the correct conversion of the whole piece, concerning key-changes etcetera....


I guess you'll have to "step around" those problem areas and treat them in more of a manually adjusted fashion.

How about this-

Insert a blank measure before and after the problem measure. Make sure time signatures and key changes are set up properly in these new measures. Take just the problem measure and change the durations as desired. Copy the first half of the measure (using Command/C and /V) into the first inserted measure, and the second half into the second inserted measure. Delete the problem measure.

Perhaps you know this already and maybe I'm leaving out a crucial step or two. But you get the drift.

N.


OSX 10.8.5
Finale 2011c, 2012c for production work
Finale 2014.5

TgTools, Patterson Plugins, JW Change and Staff Polyphony, QuicKeys 4
Mac Mini 2.4 Ghz Intel, 8GB RAM
New Belgium Fat Tire Ale

“The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once.”
–Albert Einstein

“And as you know, you don’t tell time–time tells you.”
–George Carlin

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RV
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   Posted 3/20/2016 11:49 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I get your drift... ^^
- my problem is not (any more) how to fix it - it's more WHY it's so RIDICULOUSLY difficult to do !!!!
Logic Pro has had this feature since ... heck, 1990 !! LOL!

If I need to convert a REALLY big piece, the fastest way is actually to export the Whole Finale shebang as a MIDI-File into Logic and make the conversion there!!
(and then import it again).

...but - FINALE can't be SERIOUS that we should need to do it THAT way in a otherwise rather perfected application...


RV
iMac (12,1), 2,5GHz, 8Gb RAM
Finale 2014.5 (2014d, 2012, 2008, 2005, 2003, v.3, v.1.1)
Logic Pro 10.2.2
OS 10.11.3

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Zuill
"The Troll"



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   Posted 3/20/2016 4:25 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I know you would like Finale to do the whole thing, but at this point, it doesn't. What I do is:

Add blank measures at the end of each key section equal to the number of measures already there (16 in the first section, 4 in the second, etc.).
Highlight the whole score and convert default to real rests.
Highlight the first section, including the blank bars, and double the durations UNCHECKING the Rebar option.
Rebar manually.
Repeat for each section.
Lastly, fix the double bar locations and adjust the number of bars per system, and add the 3 bar mm Rest.

Zuill

P.S.: I then realized there were some differences. Ties where there should have been only one note. Using retranscribe got rid of slurs and the original spelling of notes. So, after retranscribe, some work to do. Total time of just under 5 minutes.


"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
 
Win 7 64bit, 2011b, 2012c, 2014d, 2014.5 
 
Favorite Forum quote: "Please, everybody, IGNORE THE TROLL!"

Post Edited (Zuill) : 3/20/2016 4:21:40 PM (GMT-5)

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Zuill
"The Troll"



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   Posted 3/20/2016 5:36 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I copied before retranscribing, and then pasted just the slurs with the filter. Only had to fix 2 double flats afterward. So just under 5 minutes.

Zuill


"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
 
Win 7 64bit, 2011b, 2012c, 2014d, 2014.5 
 
Favorite Forum quote: "Please, everybody, IGNORE THE TROLL!"

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RV
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   Posted 3/20/2016 10:31 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
; ) not bad!
...jeeez, I wish there was ONE "button" for this. 5 sec. ??? ^^


RV
iMac (12,1), 2,5GHz, 8Gb RAM
Finale 2014.5 (2014d, 2012, 2008, 2005, 2003, v.3, v.1.1)
Logic Pro 10.2.2
OS 10.11.3

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RV
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   Posted 3/20/2016 10:47 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Oops!
just trying to see how long it would take me to do the whole thing with "stop-watch" ....
I noticed that on line system 3 from top, there's an (empty) bar missing!! Sorry! ^^

...My time got to about 5 mins. too... somewhat more. Didn't feel like finish off.... silly enough like it is, right?!?!


RV
iMac (12,1), 2,5GHz, 8Gb RAM
Finale 2014.5 (2014d, 2012, 2008, 2005, 2003, v.3, v.1.1)
Logic Pro 10.2.2
OS 10.11.3

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Zuill
"The Troll"



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   Posted 3/21/2016 12:20 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Silly me. After retrying things, using the change duration without rebar, and then rebarring manually doesn't require adding the extra bars first. So, I got the time down to 3:28.

Zuill


"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
 
Win 7 64bit, 2011b, 2012c, 2014d, 2014.5 
 
Favorite Forum quote: "Please, everybody, IGNORE THE TROLL!"

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Zuill
"The Troll"



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   Posted 3/21/2016 12:29 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Every time I post, I get another insight. Now I realize that I can change the durations by 200% all at once (whole document), and then rebar each key region, so I saved another minute. Down to 2:27.

Zuill


"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
 
Win 7 64bit, 2011b, 2012c, 2014d, 2014.5 
 
Favorite Forum quote: "Please, everybody, IGNORE THE TROLL!"

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Zuill
"The Troll"



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   Posted 3/21/2016 12:44 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Found an even better time saver and got it down to 2:00. However, I noticed something odd. Your 2 files (Wrong and Correct) are in 2 different keys. The notes look the same, however. What is that all about? I didn't include changing the key as part of the time challenge, because I thought it was just about the note values.

Zuill

P.S.: I guess it's just the first section in a different key. The rest is the same.


"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
 
Win 7 64bit, 2011b, 2012c, 2014d, 2014.5 
 
Favorite Forum quote: "Please, everybody, IGNORE THE TROLL!"

Post Edited (Zuill) : 3/21/2016 12:41:54 AM (GMT-5)

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RV
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   Posted 3/21/2016 7:24 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Quill said...
.. I noticed something odd. Your 2 files (Wrong and Correct) are in 2 different keys....



...well;
As it was a "work-in-progress" ... when I got angry, and decided to do this little "Quiz" - I had changed the original file already, a bit.
As I noticed, the original Key was in D-Major (for some reason that I can't remember). It should of course be in A-Major ! (First section / Last section).
So, I must have had messed things up a bit - before opening the (old) original file again...

But, hey - that wasn't what it was about, in the quiz!! smilewinkgrin


P.S.
2:00 ?!?!?! You MUST be kidding?!?! blush


RV
iMac (12,1), 2,5GHz, 8Gb RAM
Finale 2014.5 (2014d, 2012, 2008, 2005, 2003, v.3, v.1.1)
Logic Pro 10.2.2
OS 10.11.3

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Zuill
"The Troll"



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   Posted 3/21/2016 9:56 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
It was actually 2:02, so I rounded down. Sorry.

Zuill


"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
 
Win 7 64bit, 2011b, 2012c, 2014d, 2014.5 
 
Favorite Forum quote: "Please, everybody, IGNORE THE TROLL!"

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Charles Lawrence
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   Posted 3/21/2016 10:20 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Zuill,
 
I know you don't like Finalescript so much, but have you tried scripting your algorithm, if feasible.  You might get it down even more.  I haven't looked at any of this, but perhaps a JW Lua script can be used for even further time reduction.


"Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about!"

Windows 10 Professional (x64) (build 10586)
 
3.50 gigahertz Intel Core i7-5930K, Multi-core (6 total), Hyper-threaded (12 total)
32638 Megabytes Usable Installed Memory, 17514.37 Gigabytes Usable Hard Drive Capacity
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 980 - 4GB [Display adapter]
ASUS Rampage V Extreme motherboard, Realtek HD Audio

Finale 2014.5.6359
Garritan GPO4.02


Cakewalk SONAR X3 - (X3e build 244) - x64, Sound Forge Audio Studio 10.0, Audacity 2.1.0
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"There is a world of difference between a person who has a big problem and a person who makes a problem big." – John Maxwell

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Zuill
"The Troll"



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   Posted 3/21/2016 10:45 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Probably. However, the one part of the process that might or might not be able to be automated would be the selection of the measures to be rebarred. If a script can choose up to the next key change, successively adding key changes, then it would work. The Change Duration can be done en masse, but not the Rebar.

Zuill

P.S.: It's not that I don't like the concept of Finalescript, but in the past it was quite inconsistent, often crashing Finale. I spent more time babying FS, where the time was best spent doing the work manually.


"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
 
Win 7 64bit, 2011b, 2012c, 2014d, 2014.5 
 
Favorite Forum quote: "Please, everybody, IGNORE THE TROLL!"

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Zuill
"The Troll"



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   Posted 3/21/2016 5:13 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Okay. I tried working with FS, but, just as in days of yore, lot's of freezing when testing. Same old same old.

Anyway, it appears I can get some of it done. One thing that doesn't seem to work is selecting Normal for barlines in Staff attributes Measure Attributes. If anyone can do that, please let me know. FS is so kludgy.

Zuill


"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
 
Win 7 64bit, 2011b, 2012c, 2014d, 2014.5 
 
Favorite Forum quote: "Please, everybody, IGNORE THE TROLL!"

Post Edited (Zuill) : 3/21/2016 6:33:31 PM (GMT-5)

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Motet
Isorhythmic



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   Posted 3/21/2016 7:15 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Zuill said...
One thing that doesn't seem to work is selecting Normal for barlines in Staff attributes. If anyone can do that, please let me know.

Do you mean measure attributes? This seems to work

edit measure attributes
click 475 375
click OK

The coordinates 475,375 are, absurdly, relative to the entire screen rather than the measure attributes dialog (I used Autohotkey's Window Spy to find the coordinates--maybe there's some built-in Windows way?).

I agree that FS is barely usable. I had to quit Finale a couple of times to get it out of a frozen state.


Finale 2014.5, 2011b, 2005, TGTools
Windows 7, MIDI input
Finale Transposition Chart

Post Edited (Motet) : 3/21/2016 6:30:46 PM (GMT-5)

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