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John Ruggero
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   Posted 9/2/2016 2:56 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
When engraving measures in which all parts contain a single note only or a whole rest, many plate engravers of the past narrowed the measure and indented or centered the single note. I prefer this style and now move such lone notes one note-head width to the right and narrow the measures manually so the notes are a bit left of center. For final measures of this type and those in which some parts have whole rests, I center the note. I have attached an example.

Is there is a way of doing this automatically in Finale?

If not, a plugin? (Charles Lawrence?)


Mac mini (OS 10.8.5) with dual monitors, Finale 2014d (Finale 2011 as a backup) with GPO 4
Kurzweil Mark 5 with M-Audio Midisport 2 x 2, Adobe InDesign CS4 SmartScore X Pro, JW Plug-ins
www.cantilenapress.com

The better the composer, the better the notation.



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Single note measures.pdf   34KB (application/pdf)
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Mike Rosen
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   Posted 9/2/2016 3:21 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
It's in the full TG Tools. It will center whole notes in the measure. (Modify>Shift)



Mike Rosen
www.specialmillwork.com

Bass with Choir of the Sound www.choirofthesound.org
Volunteer copyist (The Gang of Twelve) for the Barbershop Harmony Society
FINALE TIPS at www.specialmillwork.com/finale-tips-and-tricks/index.html

Finale 2014.5 on El Capitan
Simple Entry, QWERTY keyboard, numberpad. That's my system, and I'm stickin' to it.

"As a musician, he's a damn fine woodworker."

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John Ruggero
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   Posted 9/2/2016 5:08 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Thanks so much, Mike. It's about time I got the full TG.

However, I prefer NOT to center all whole notes, but use the system above, so the the whole notes are indented by a specific amount. As well, I need the capability of narrowing the measures automatically to produce the off-center effect shown in the example.


Mac mini (OS 10.8.5) with dual monitors, Finale 2014d (Finale 2011 as a backup) with GPO 4
Kurzweil Mark 5 with M-Audio Midisport 2 x 2, Adobe InDesign CS4 SmartScore X Pro, JW Plug-ins
www.cantilenapress.com

The better the composer, the better the notation.

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Mike Rosen
himself



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   Posted 9/2/2016 5:35 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
In that case, you will probably have to come up with a Finalescript.



Mike Rosen
www.specialmillwork.com

Bass with Choir of the Sound www.choirofthesound.org
Volunteer copyist (The Gang of Twelve) for the Barbershop Harmony Society
FINALE TIPS at www.specialmillwork.com/finale-tips-and-tricks/index.html

Finale 2014.5 on El Capitan
Simple Entry, QWERTY keyboard, numberpad. That's my system, and I'm stickin' to it.

"As a musician, he's a damn fine woodworker."

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Daz
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   Posted 9/2/2016 7:46 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Hi John

I'm not that familiar with this area of Finale.
Would Rob Patterson's Note Spacing plugin suit?

Cheers


Daz. :o)

------------------------
Finale 2006-2011, Finale 25 - Win7 64 bit

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John Ruggero
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   Posted 9/2/2016 9:26 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Thanks, Daz, the Patterson note-spacing plug-in looks promising, but I myself am not familiar enough with this area to know for sure whether it could do the job. I will investigate.

Mike, I have never used Finalescript. This might be the occasion to try it.


Mac mini (OS 10.8.5) with dual monitors, Finale 2014d (Finale 2011 as a backup) with GPO 4
Kurzweil Mark 5 with M-Audio Midisport 2 x 2, Adobe InDesign CS4 SmartScore X Pro, JW Plug-ins
www.cantilenapress.com

The better the composer, the better the notation.

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michelp
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   Posted 9/3/2016 4:54 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Another "trick" I have heard about centering whole notes :
1) Desactivate Automatic Update Layout
2) Edit Filter : unselect notes
3) In one measure, measure tool, use the bottom handle for beat positioning to move the note manually to the center.
4) Copy that measure and paste it into all measures concerned
N.B.: that seems to work even if the measure width varies.


Michel
Finale 2014.5, 2014d, 2012c (main), 2011c, 2010b, 2009b, MacOsX 10.9.5, Mac Mini Intel Core i7 2,7 Ghz, 16 Go Ram, French azerty kb, Dolet 6. Full TGTools. MOTU Audio Express, 3 monitors.

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HaraldS
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   Posted 9/4/2016 7:14 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
VoilĂ , version 1.0 , written in JWLua. Select a region and run the script, it will first check if a measure really contains exclusively whole note entries and only process those.

It needs absolute values in the opening dialog, you can enter an absolute measure width and an absolute whole note indent. Or would you think a relative (%) measure width and/or whole note indent would be better?

Harald


Finale 3.0-2014.5, german edition, Windows 7
lots of hardware synths/keys, Cubase 7 / trombonist, pianist, conductor / Recklinghausen, Germany



File Attachment :
WholeNoteSpacing.lua   2KB (application/octet-stream)
This file has been downloaded 129 time(s).
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John Ruggero
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   Posted 9/4/2016 8:36 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
That's a great work-around michelp! I am glad I asked.

I find that automatic music spacing needs to be off and incorporate manual changes turned on. As you imply, the note must be repositioned with the beat handle and not otherwise. Unfortunately, a music spacing command returns the notes to their original positions, so this operation would need to occur after layout is complete.

Combining your trick with the right settings in the Music Spacing Duration Allotment might work well enough. But a general plug-in for this certainly would be helpful.

I found several earlier posts on this forum which mentioned that centered whole notes were archaic. That may be, but indenting the note of a single-note measure seems to be standard in modern editions by Henle, Wiener Urtext, Baerenreiter, and others. It is also recommended by Ted Ross (for whole notes). For this reason, I think it should be a standard option in Finale.


Mac mini (OS 10.8.5) with dual monitors, Finale 2014d (Finale 2011 as a backup) with GPO 4
Kurzweil Mark 5 with M-Audio Midisport 2 x 2, Adobe InDesign CS4 SmartScore X Pro, JW Plug-ins
www.cantilenapress.com

The better the composer, the better the notation.

Post Edited (John Ruggero) : 9/4/2016 8:45:15 AM (GMT-5)

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John Ruggero
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   Posted 9/4/2016 8:41 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Wow! HaraldS, I will work with your plug-in this morning after breakfast. I am excited to try it! Hopefuly it will do all single note measures like dotted half notes in a 3/4 and half notes in a 2/4 etc.


Mac mini (OS 10.8.5) with dual monitors, Finale 2014d (Finale 2011 as a backup) with GPO 4
Kurzweil Mark 5 with M-Audio Midisport 2 x 2, Adobe InDesign CS4 SmartScore X Pro, JW Plug-ins
www.cantilenapress.com

The better the composer, the better the notation.

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HaraldS
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   Posted 9/4/2016 9:37 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
John Ruggero said...
Wow! HaraldS, I will work with your plug-in this morning after breakfast.


Greetings from the sunday-afternoon coffee here in Germany ;)

John Ruggero said...
I am excited to try it! Hopefuly it will do all single note measures like dotted half notes in a 3/4 and half notes in a 2/4 etc.


You got me. I did not read carefully your first post and only cared for whole notes. Now here's not really version two, but I renamed the whole thing to "Single Note Spacing", version 1.0 again. Now it moves any values, not only whole notes. To be precise, it manipulates the horizontal position of Finale's "entries", which can be either a single note, a chord or a entered rest. Much like you would do manually if you clicked-and-draged a note in speedy entry.

Beware, it doesn't take multiple layers into account. Do you need that, or the relative %-spacing?

Have a nice breakfast ;)
Harald


Finale 3.0-2014.5, german edition, Windows 7
lots of hardware synths/keys, Cubase 7 / trombonist, pianist, conductor / Recklinghausen, Germany

Post Edited (HaraldS) : 9/4/2016 9:40:53 AM (GMT-5)



File Attachment :
SingleNoteSpacing.lua   3KB (application/octet-stream)
This file has been downloaded 140 time(s).
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John Ruggero
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   Posted 9/4/2016 2:13 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Thanks again, HaraldS. The plugin sounds wonderful. However, when I attempt to run it on a few measures of whole notes, the Execution Output on JW Lua window reads:

Running [SingleNoteSpacing] ======>
...ort/MakeMusic/Finale 2014/Plug-ins/SingleNoteSpacing.lua:13: attempt to call a nil value (field 'FCCustomWindow')
<======= [SingleNoteSpacing] FAILED.

Have I installed it improperly? It's been a while since I installed one and the online documentation is meager, at least for me.

Or some other kind of user error? I notice that you use Windows. Would that be an issue for my Mac?

I placed your file in the HD>Library>Application Support>MakeMusic>Finale 2014>Plugins.

Then I created a name for it in the JWPlugins window Manager> Plug-In Groups>New, added the plugin in the Items in Group>New from the plugin in the Plugins folder.

I then restarted Finale and attempted to run it from the JW Lua Explorer window but received the message above.

To answer your questions, I don't think that multiple layers are necessary. I am not sure what relative %-spacing is; that the indentation of the note would vary according to the size of the measure?

I am now going to have a late lunch and watch some more US open. I predict a Kerber vs Serena finale.


Mac mini (OS 10.8.5) with dual monitors, Finale 2014d (Finale 2011 as a backup) with GPO 4
Kurzweil Mark 5 with M-Audio Midisport 2 x 2, Adobe InDesign CS4 SmartScore X Pro, JW Plug-ins
www.cantilenapress.com

The better the composer, the better the notation.

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HaraldS
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   Posted 9/4/2016 4:12 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Well, it might be an old version of JWLua on your computer, much like this issue some days ago. The error message was the same, Ralph L. Bowers solved the problem by updating the JWLua plugin. The Download Link can be found here. If that doesn't work, please let me know.

Your installation procedure sounds okay. As I don't have a Mac, I can't be more precise, I'm afraid. But the error message proves at least that the script was running, so that basically sounds good. JWLua scripts should be platform-independent, so it shouldn't matter if I wrote it on Windows and you run it on a Mac.

John Ruggero said...
I am not sure what relative %-spacing is; that the indentation of the note would vary according to the size of the measure?

Yes, you're right. The measure's width could be resized either to a user-defined fixed value or to a percentage of its actual value. Same for note positioning: the single notes/chord/rest could be placed at a user-defined fixed position within the measure or could be set to a percentage of its actual position. Fixed values are better if you know precisely what you want. Relative spacing in percentages are better to retain existing manual note positioning or manual measure width adjustements. Both have advantages.

Harald


Finale 3.0-2014.5, german edition, Windows 7
lots of hardware synths/keys, Cubase 7 / trombonist, pianist, conductor / Recklinghausen, Germany

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John Ruggero
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   Posted 9/4/2016 9:01 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
You were correct. Your plugin works perfectly with the latest version of JWLua.

Congratulations and thank you very much! This is a very useful plugin just as it stands, and I will refer another engraver to it at Notat.io who uses the same system as myself. I am sure that others will make good use of it.

As I worked with it, several things occurred to me. Please forgive me if they are incorrect or the result of misunderstanding:

To answer your question about the fixed vs relative values, I notice that the amount of indentation seems to be an absolute value (EVPUs?), but the actual measure width seems dependent on the number of measures on the line. Would it be possible for the measure width also to be an absolute value if desired? I think that both systems might have value and could be offered as alternatives.

Also, it might be helpful if one's previous setting were retained instead of defaulting to the original fixed values each time. If this is not possible, I would suggest a different set of default values: approx. 200 for the measure width and 30-35 for the indentation seems to give good results for an average line of music of some rhythmic variety.


Mac mini (OS 10.8.5) with dual monitors, Finale 2014d (Finale 2011 as a backup) with GPO 4
Kurzweil Mark 5 with M-Audio Midisport 2 x 2, Adobe InDesign CS4 SmartScore X Pro, JW Plug-ins
www.cantilenapress.com

The better the composer, the better the notation.

Post Edited (John Ruggero) : 9/4/2016 9:08:54 PM (GMT-5)

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HaraldS
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   Posted 9/7/2016 2:46 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Sorry for the late delay, but time is sometimes and somehow limited...first of all, thank you for the nice feedback!

John Ruggero said...
To answer your question about the fixed vs relative values, I notice that the amount of indentation seems to be an absolute value (EVPUs?), but the actual measure width seems dependent on the number of measures on the line. Would it be possible for the measure width also to be an absolute value if desired?

I played a bit with measure widths to find out how things work together. What I found out was that each measure (e.g. in the default document) gets a width of around 600 EVPUs. Now, if you lock the staff system (so measures don't move around) and set each measure's width to e.g. 50, the resulting measures look like the 600 EVPUs width, but retain their 50 EVPU setting in the measure attribute dialog. Actually paradoxical, isn't it? So measure widths a essentially in any case a relative value which depend on the staff system's width. Thus, when I speak of "absolute" measure widths, they're not really so absolute, they still depend on the staff system width anyway.

I would think, Finale is programmed in a senseful way here - or would anyone expect Finale to reduce the whole staff system's width in this situation? An honest question, would you prefer to have the staff system shortened?

John Ruggero said...
Also, it might be helpful if one's previous setting were retained instead of defaulting to the original fixed values each time. If this is not possible, I would suggest a different set of default values: approx. 200 for the measure width and 30-35 for the indentation seems to give good results for an average line of music of some rhythmic variety.

At the moment, I don't see a way how a JWLua script could save and retreive data in between calls - except if one would misuse some data structures for that purpose, e.g. a newly created expression/articulation/text etc. . I don't really like those dirty workarounds, but I'll have a further look into the issue. Meanwhile, I changed the default values to 200 and 30. I hope it fits your needs ;) .

Greetings from Germany,

Harald


Finale 3.0-2014.5, german edition, Windows 7
mostly hardware synths/keys, Cubase 7 / trombonist, pianist, conductor / Recklinghausen, Germany



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John Ruggero
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   Posted 9/7/2016 6:55 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Harold, I always forget that Finale's EVPU's are not absolute values and that this leads to paradoxes. Sorry about that. I think that if I simply turn off automatic music spacing and apply your plugin as the last engraving step, I will get the effect desired.

I had wondered if a JWLua script could interact with the user and apparently it can't. Your version with the new defaults will work well for me. Would it be difficult to enable the user to set these default values?


Mac mini (OS 10.8.5) with dual monitors, Finale 2014d (Finale 2011 as a backup) with GPO 4
Kurzweil Mark 5 with M-Audio Midisport 2 x 2, Adobe InDesign CS4 SmartScore X Pro, JW Plug-ins
www.cantilenapress.com

The better the composer, the better the notation.

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HaraldS
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   Posted 9/9/2016 8:01 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
John Ruggero said...
I think that if I simply turn off automatic music spacing and apply your plugin as the last engraving step, I will get the effect desired.

Glad to hear that!

John Ruggero said...
I had wondered if a JWLua script could interact with the user and apparently it can't.

JWLua scripts can interact with the user via dialog windows or via script parameters, Jari explains it here. I would consider a dialog window to be more user friendly than setting script parameters, so that's what I did. In fact, I would very much wish that a script could e.g. rest in the background and manipulate incoming/outgoing MIDI messages or be called automatically each time the layout is updated, or the like. Robert Patterson uttered that wish as well in the last paragraph of his interview in 2005.

Another idea: you could call SingleNoteSpacing from inside a Finalescript. Parameters aren't supported in Finalescript, too, but you could set up multiple Finalescripts which call SingleNoteSpacing and alter the dialog boxes' values prior to hitting OK. Thus, you could access at least multiple default value settings.

John Ruggero said...
Would it be difficult to enable the user to set these default values?

Not at all, but you would have to edit the script's source code (in the "Development" tab). The default values are set in lines #27: edit1:SetInteger(200) and #29: edit2:SetInteger(30) . Replace the numbers 200 and/or 30 as you wish.

Harald


Finale 3.0-2014.5, german edition, Windows 7
mostly hardware synths/keys, Cubase 7 / trombonist, pianist, conductor / Recklinghausen, Germany

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John Ruggero
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   Posted 9/9/2016 3:19 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Thanks for the explanation, Harald. Yes, dialogue windows are definitely friendlier!. I am glad that some of us, like yourself, have explored this world and have been good enough to help those of us who haven't. Some day, perhaps.

Making a simple edit like that in the code sounds simple enough. I'll have a go! Thanks again, Harald!

And congrats on Kerber, who I love to watch. Germany may have another Steffi Graf on its hands.


Mac mini (OS 10.8.5) with dual monitors, Finale 2014d (Finale 2011 as a backup) with GPO 4
Kurzweil Mark 5 with M-Audio Midisport 2 x 2, Adobe InDesign CS4 SmartScore X Pro, JW Plug-ins
www.cantilenapress.com

The better the composer, the better the notation.

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