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MakeMusic Forum > Public Forums > Finale - Macintosh - FORUM HAS MOVED! > Is it better to write an Orchestral Score with different staves for very pair of winds or not?  Forum Quick Jump
 
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rc1695
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   Posted 9/6/2016 10:24 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Dear All,

I am writing a new piece for orchestra in the Finale 2011.

I was advised to write
EVERY WIND INSTRUMENT in A SEPARATE STAVE. BECAUSE WHEN YOU "EXTRACT" THE PARTS, THE DYNAMICS, ARTICULATIONS AND HAIRPIN-CRESCENDOS DON'T MOVE, I.E., THEY DON'T HAVE TO BE REPOSITIONED IN THE INDIVIDUAL PARTS.


BUT
The Conductor would like to have the Orchestral Score with every wind instrument in the SAME STAVE. I.E. Flutes 1 & 2 (together); Oboes 1 & 2 (together); and so on.
And if I follow the advise, above, the Conductor's Score will have EVERY WIND INSTRUMENT in A SEPARATE STAVE.

How to solve this problem?

I have tried to find a solution for it in the manual but could not find it.

I would appreciate it very much any effort to help on this matter.

Thank you very much.

All my best,
RC
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Daz
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   Posted 9/6/2016 1:27 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Hi rc1695

A question first.

Do you use linked parts?

Now to your question: the advice you were given is essentially saying

"Place twice as many marking in now, to save yourself from adjusting some of them later!"

Typically you should not have to adjust every marking in the part when extracted/generated. That is not to say that there no need to check each part, but the work involved would be less than entering each marking in twice into the conductors score.

Cheers...


Daz. :o)

------------------------
Finale 2006-2011, Finale 25 - Win7 64 bit
Core2 Duo i7-4790, 16Gb Ram, Soundblaster Z

Post Edited (Daz) : 9/6/2016 12:48:40 PM (GMT-5)

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Michel R. E.
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   Posted 9/6/2016 1:36 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I always work from three scores.

1) I start with the "compositional" score, which will sometimes have notation that defies logic but caters to playback.

2) then - from the "compositional" score - I create a "parts" score, with cues, and everything adjusted.

3) and the very final stage is to create the conductor score where instruments are consolidated onto single staves where possible.

Am I entering material three times? well, some items. others I use shortcuts and plugins. I certainly don't re-enter the music three times. Everything starts from one score and is adjusted to its new function (parts or conductor).

Once playback irregularities are changed to correct notation in the parts score, that part is done for the conductor score so doesn't need to be addressed again.


Finale (started with ver. 3.0) using 2012 (2014 has been shelved for its lack of support for older Garritan libraries) under Windows 8.1
basically ALL Garritan libraries, plus XSample Chamber Ensemble.

"Art critics suffer from Pigeon Syndrome. Pigeons like to leave their mark on monuments. But at the end of the day, the pigeon remains a pigeon, and the monument remains a monument."

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Jeff Hamburg
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   Posted 9/6/2016 1:38 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Either Jari or Tobias had a plug-in which niftily divided wind staves into two separate parts. It should work on Fin2011.


Jeff Hamburg

iMac 3.5 GHz i7 OS 10.11, Finale 2.0.1 --->2014d, 8 gb ram, 30" HP ZR30w, EWQLSO Silver Play, XSample Chamber Ensemble, Numark USB Audio Interface UA-1ex, M-Audio Keystation88

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euphman
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   Posted 9/6/2016 1:56 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
RC -- unless writing for an ensemble small enough so that linked parts can be used directly from the full score -- which does require a separate staff for each instrument on the score -- it is very common, at least in the commercial realm, to end up with two scores, the original conductor/full score and a "parts score" as Michel mentions. The difference commercially tends to be that the conductor's score is created first, then the parts score derived from that:

The composer or orchestrator will create the full (conductor's) score -- which for an orchestra or symphonic band will normally double up many of the woodwinds and brass (e.g. Flute 1-2, Horn 1-2 etc sharing a staff) -- with dynamics, articulations, etc, in their proper locations.

Then the score will be handed off to the music copyist (unless that job is being done by the same person who created the original score) -- who will take the conductor score, do a "save as" command -- and the new file will become the parts score -- on that score extra staves will be added so that every instrument gets it's own staff. Then, via copy/paste, exploding parts, etc, the final version of the parts score will indeed have a staff for each instrument. Dynamics and articulations etc will all be placed correctly in the parts score -- from this parts score the individual parts can now be extracted using linked parts.

(copyists who work regularly in the large ensemble realm tend to have their own parts score set up as a template with many extra staves to save the need to continually add extra staves)

(of course, you have to remember that since the two scores are not linked, edits made in the parts score will of course not flow to the conductor score; any such edits do need to be made in both scores unfortunately)

It is possible to bypass the parts score and extract parts directly from the full score using one's own template and being VERY careful with copy/paste commands -- I suspect that some of us still use special part extraction as needed -- like the parts score, these other methods also are not linked to the original score so editing must be done with that in mind.


Finale 2014.5, Finale (2012c.r13), 2011c.r1
QuickKeys v. 4.0.7
MacBookPro; OS 10.9.5

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Dave Hage
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   Posted 9/7/2016 2:40 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Dear RC,

If you are writing for a largish orchestra, using individual staves per instrument will result in score far too small to read easily.
If you input carefully , it is perfectly possible to use the "voicing" feature in shared parts to extract parts which share a stave, but there are better features to achieve this in the latest version of Finale.

Regards

Dave Hage


Regards

David Hage
Dakota Music Service Ltd

OS X 10.11.5
Mac Pro 2015
Apogee Symphony I/O

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Bill Spencer
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   Posted 9/7/2016 7:38 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Don't you guys ever use the feature in the Parts dialog where you can tell a part to only show a certain single note of a polyphonic stave?


MacBook Core 2 Duo 2.9 GHz 16GB Ram OS 10.11.6
Finale 2014.5
MOTU DP 9
Kurzweil PC3K
Minimoog

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Motet
Isorhythmic



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   Posted 9/8/2016 1:35 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Voiced parts, I think that's called.

I prefer to write every part on a single staff so you specify exactly what's in the part. You can combine two parts into one for the purpose of the printed score. This seems less problematic than teasing apart a two-instrument staff to make the parts. It's a lot easier inputting the notes, too, since you don't have to mess with layers.


Finale 2014.5, 2011b, 2005, TGTools
Windows 7, MIDI input
Finale Transposition Chart

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