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Nikk P.
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Total Posts : 77
 
   Posted 9/15/2016 5:27 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I've never had an upgrade fail so spectacularly at basic issues - in this case, speed.

We all want to work both smart *and* fast...and while I certainly appreciate the fact that Fin25 introduces some much-needed upgrades to the underlying code, it simply becomes entirely too slow when used for more than 30 minutes at a time.

I held off on making this post, because I wanted to test out these issues on several laptops - I can say that this problem exists on several laptops, 2 desktops, and the laptops of a few of my students (who downloaded the demo). (I should add that these are all Macs, and that I understand that PCs are running better overall).

Finale 25 feels rushed - not tested enough on both major platforms, and frankly, the speed issue should have been addressed long before it was released to the public.

Worst yet, for me, is that I upgraded to El Capitan so now I can no longer go back to Finale 2014, and Finale 2014.5 has its own issues.

I feel let down by a company I have supported with my money and in various Sibelius vs Finale debates (even encouraging my students to buy Finale instead of any other notation product). I can only hope that the upcoming Sierra release will break enough things that it forces the programmers to fix the serious problems that abound at the moment.


+++++
Nikk P.

Finale 25
Mac OSX 10.11.6
MacBook Pro (Mid-2012, 16GB RAM, 1TB SSD)

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Dr. Wiggy
Early music: modern methods



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   Posted 9/16/2016 4:43 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Firstly, do you not have a backup from which you can restore your previous OS?

Secondly, are you really finding 25 slower than 2014? While 25 still has some speed issues, I would say it is generally much faster than either 2014 or 2014.5. Scrolling lag is better; Lyrics are better; Simple Entry doesn't grind to a halt for large documents.

Issues persist, certainly. But are you saying they should have released NOTHING, until they can fix the performance?


Finale v.25, 2012 MacMini; 2012 MacBook Pro (10.11.6)
Edirol FA-66; Roland A-49, HP Laserjet 5200 DTN
Ancient Groove Music www.ancientgroove.co.uk

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Nikk P.
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   Posted 9/16/2016 8:42 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Yes, I am really finding 25 slower than 2015.

I don't use lyrics, I don't use large scores (for the most part, except for a few Schwantner transcriptions I have yet to get to on 25), generally during the Fall I work only on small(ish) 12-stave marching band arrangements, and a few larger ensemble works.

The speed is atrocious, especially after 30 minutes or so.

Add to that the inability to use the JW plugins (Copy Part layout is a HUGE time saver for me), the printing issues I am having, and a few minor irritations, it makes sense for me to head back to 2014.5 (I cannot go back to the previous OS without a rather larger headache that I am willing to put up with).

And actually, 2014 will still work on El Capitan...as long as I don't try to input any articulations or text expressions. That way I can work in 2014.5, then go to 2014 when I am done to be able to use the JW plugins, etc.

It's a tremendous pain in the ass, but....SO much faster than using Finale 25.


+++++
Nikk P.

Finale 25
Mac OSX 10.11.6
MacBook Pro (Mid-2012, 16GB RAM, 1TB SSD)

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Dr. Wiggy
Early music: modern methods



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   Posted 9/16/2016 9:20 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Nikk P. said...
The speed is atrocious, especially after 30 minutes or so.

Are you saying it gets worse just with time? I leave Finale open for days, weeks, at a time.

Are you sure there isn't some other underlying cause? Have you got AV software, or some other third-party software running in the background? It might be worth running something like EtreCheck to see if there's any problems on your Mac.
/etrecheck.com


Finale v.25, 2012 MacMini; 2012 MacBook Pro (10.11.6)
Edirol FA-66; Roland A-49, HP Laserjet 5200 DTN
Ancient Groove Music www.ancientgroove.co.uk

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Nikk P.
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Total Posts : 77
 
   Posted 9/16/2016 9:30 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
For sure. If I restart the program, it is slightly more bearable (but still not as fast as it is with Finale 2014 or 2014.5). But after I've been working for a while, say 30 minutes or so, it is too slow for practical purposes.

I've tested Finale 25 not just on my Mac, but on the Macs at work, and also a laptop I did a factory reset on without installing ANYTHING other than Finale 25. After about 30 minutes, the lag became unbearable again. None of my usual programs were installed on this other Mac. Though I will run etre check on my personal laptop to see if there is anything.

My general "test" for speed so far is two-fold:

Selecting a note with Simple Entry, and moving it up and down with the arrow keys. On Finale 2014 it is instantaneous. On Finale 25, there is a noticeable lag, sometimes as much as one second between.

My second test is to move staves around (using when setting up my score (Page View). There is still a lag on this in Finale 2014 that is annoying but workable, but the lag on Finale 25 is unbelievably bad, and this is for a score with only 12-14 staves!


+++++
Nikk P.

Finale 25
Mac OSX 10.11.6
MacBook Pro (Mid-2012, 16GB RAM, 1TB SSD)

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Dr. Wiggy
Early music: modern methods



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   Posted 9/16/2016 9:48 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
It's very weird that the experiences can be so different. Previous versions themselves have also yielded different results between different users. (some people found 2014.5 worse than 2014; and some found it better. The same is true for 2014 itself vs 2012.)
I wonder if some preference or setting within the program itself is the cause: something that some people set (or un-set), which makes the difference. If so, that's going to be very difficult to determine.


Finale v.25, 2012 MacMini; 2012 MacBook Pro (10.11.6)
Edirol FA-66; Roland A-49, HP Laserjet 5200 DTN
Ancient Groove Music www.ancientgroove.co.uk

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Éric Dussault
Finale 2011 Mac user



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   Posted 9/16/2016 9:53 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I also find that Finale 25 is much slower and less responsive than 2014.5. I have a fairly recent iMac with a Flash hard drive that is lightning fast for anything else. Takes about 10 seconds to start up, which to me is amazing. But Finale does not take advantage of this speed...
Nudging items with the arrows is probably the most noticable slow-down issue. Now I have to wait after clicking the arrow several time. Not ideal for an optimal production environement...


Éric Dussault
Mac Finale 2012
iMac 27 inches, 12 GB Ram
Mac OS 10.11.4

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Dr. Wiggy
Early music: modern methods



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   Posted 9/16/2016 9:58 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Nudging what sort of items - expressions? That's instantly responsive for me.

Here's a video of my nudging.
/dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/19942588/Nudging.mov

The only thing I can suggest is to give MakeMusic as much detail as you can: hardware, software, everything. If the problem is confined to particular attributes, then they need data to fix it.


Finale v.25, 2012 MacMini; 2012 MacBook Pro (10.11.6)
Edirol FA-66; Roland A-49, HP Laserjet 5200 DTN
Ancient Groove Music www.ancientgroove.co.uk

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Skjalg
Accordion man



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Date Joined Nov 2000
Total Posts : 927
 
   Posted 9/16/2016 3:38 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Nikk P. said...
Add to that the inability to use the JW plugins...


I will wait with updating until Jari has updated his plug-ins. They are a cornerstone in my workflow.


Skjalg Bjørstad, Norway

_____________________________________________

Finale 3.0.6 > 2014.5, Macbook Pro OS X El Capitan (10.10.3), 8 gB RAM, 750 gB, Garritan JABB, GPO full version, Garritan COMB, Komplete 8 (Kontakt 5 etc.); Akai MPK mini, PreSonus AudioBox USB, Logic Pro X A live recording here.

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