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MakeMusic Forum > Public Forums > Finale - Macintosh - FORUM HAS MOVED! > Does the "keyless" score no longer work in Finale 25?  Forum Quick Jump
 
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Shnootre
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   Posted 10/1/2016 5:05 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Noticing that in all my keyless scores, key sigs have now been added to my transposing instruments, and I have to go in manually and convert them to "chromatic."

I see that the function is still available when setting up a score, but has it ceased to work properly in Fin 25?


Daniel Sonenberg
Macbook Pro 2.5 GHz Intel Core i7
OSX 10.9.4
16 gig ram
GPO4 full and JABB3
A bunch of sample libraries
Finale 25
Logic X

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jim dukey
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   Posted 10/1/2016 6:19 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
The Default Setting in F25 is to Show Hidden Items.
There's one in Preferences, the other in View or something, can't remember.
But I had to change it to Not Show Hidden stuff.
Maybe that's why the Key Sigs are showing.


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Shnootre
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   Posted 10/2/2016 8:43 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Well, key sigs shouldn't be hidden in keyless scores...they should just not be there...


Daniel Sonenberg
Macbook Pro 2.5 GHz Intel Core i7
OSX 10.9.4
16 gig ram
GPO4 full and JABB3
A bunch of sample libraries
Finale 25
Logic X

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jim dukey
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   Posted 10/3/2016 1:11 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Even so, it's worth a try.


Molecular Computer, Powered by Fusion in a Jar. Finale 3000, Wireless ESP Module, No Physical Interface, Printed Parts Manifest by The Universe,
SOOOO Boring! Now Everybody is Friggin' Mozart.

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Michel R. E.
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   Posted 10/3/2016 2:04 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Chromatic transposition does not do the same thing as "hide key signatures and show accidentals".

The former puts the instrument in the same key signature as the rest of the ensemble while still being transposed.
ie: if the piece is in D major, a Bb clarinet would be also notated in D major (though appearing a whole tone higher).

"Hide key signature and show accidentals" is the true key signature-less notation, where a transposing instrument will NEVER have a key signature regardless of what key signature changes might be happening in other staves.


If the entire piece is notated without any key signatures for any of the instruments then chromatic transposition does the same thing as "hide key signatures and show accidentals".

On the other hand, if your score DOES have a key signature, may have key changes at some point later in the piece, then "Hide ks and show accidentals" is the way to go.
For example in old scores where the timpani and trumpets were notated without any key signature regardless of what was happening in the rest of the music.


Finale (started with ver. 3.0) using 2012 (2014 has been shelved for its lack of support for older Garritan libraries), putting Finale 25 through its paces.
Windows 8.1
basically ALL Garritan libraries, plus XSample Chamber Ensemble.

"Art critics suffer from Pigeon Syndrome. Pigeons like to leave their mark on monuments. But at the end of the day, the pigeon remains a pigeon, and the monument remains a monument."

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jim dukey
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   Posted 10/3/2016 9:30 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Fin25 was showing Hidden Notes as the Default, which didn't happen in 2012.
Maybe there's a setting in F25 that is causing the Key Sig to show, even though there was no Key Sig, it's figuring it put somehow and creating them.
Or it's a Bug!


Molecular Computer, Powered by Fusion in a Jar. Finale 3000, Wireless ESP Module, No Physical Interface, Printed Parts Manifest by The Universe,
SOOOO Boring! Now Everybody is Friggin' Mozart.

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Michel R. E.
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   Posted 10/3/2016 12:21 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
the reason it didn't happen in 2012 is that Finale 2012 didn't have the option to "do not show key signature but show accidentals". You had to use Chromatic transposition to get the effect.

There's probably an issue in the translation from THAT feature to the new version which hides all key signatures on a staff regardless of other staves.


Finale (started with ver. 3.0) using 2012 (2014 has been shelved for its lack of support for older Garritan libraries), putting Finale 25 through its paces.
Windows 8.1
basically ALL Garritan libraries, plus XSample Chamber Ensemble.

"Art critics suffer from Pigeon Syndrome. Pigeons like to leave their mark on monuments. But at the end of the day, the pigeon remains a pigeon, and the monument remains a monument."

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Shnootre
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   Posted 10/26/2016 1:00 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Bumping this up. I don't really follow the discussion entirely, though.

When I create a score, I (almost always) choose "keyless" when it's time to enter a key. It's my understanding that this will give me a score where no instruments, whether viewed in concert or transposed score, will have a key signature. Key sigs for transposing instruments won't be "hidden," they just won't exist.

I feel like this feature worked fine in Finale 2014 and 2014.5, but doesn't work in Finale 25. All my "keyless" scores have key sigs for the transposing instruments, and I have to go in one by one and convert the transposition to chromatic.

Has no one else noticed this? (talking Finale 25.1)


Daniel Sonenberg
Macbook Pro 2.5 GHz Intel Core i7
OSX 10.9.4
16 gig ram
GPO4 full and JABB3
A bunch of sample libraries
Finale 25
Logic X

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