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Shnootre
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   Posted 10/12/2016 12:13 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
http://www.steinberg.net/en/products/dorico/start.html

They've taken down the crossgrade pricing they had listed (I think it was around $299 for crossgrade from Finale or Sibelius, but only until March 2017).

According to Steinberg there will be a free trial available around 4-5 weeks after the launch.

I've been a Finale user for 23 years, but I'd be lying if I told you I wasn't very excited and hopeful about this product.


Daniel Sonenberg
Macbook Pro 2.5 GHz Intel Core i7
OSX 10.9.4
16 gig ram
GPO4 full and JABB3
A bunch of sample libraries
Finale 25
Logic X

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Ralph L. Bowers Jr.
Polymathist



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   Posted 10/12/2016 12:50 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Looking forward to do the test drive also.
www.steinberg.net/en/products/dorico/what_is_dorico.html


Finale 2010b, 2011b, 2012c, 2014d, 2014.5 TGTools Pro, Patterson plugins, JW plugins (current for each Finale Instalation)
Sibelius 6.2, 7.1.3, 7.5.1, 8.4.2, Write Score Sound Sets, TMT Publisher Bundle Plugins, Bob Zawalich plugins, Dolet 6.6
Print Music 2004, 2010a, 2011a, 2014a
Progression, Progression 2, Progression 3, Notion 4, [Notion 5, (bought but not installed)update finally installed]
Pro Tools 9.5, Reaper
Kontakt 5
GPO4, GPO5, World Instruments
SmartScore X Pro, SmartScore X2 Pro, PhotoScore Ultimate 6 & 7 & 8.04 ( 7 has some utility----best of those available, 8 has some issues that need fixing)
M-Audio "Oxygen 25" Midi input keyboard (recent addition 2014)
Systems (5) // Windows XP Pro (32bit), [email protected] Windows 7 Pro, 8.1 Pro, Windows 10 64 bit, 4GB - 16GB RAM
Paper & Pencil

BMus, MM (Musicology)

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stringtapper
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   Posted 10/12/2016 3:05 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
If that Engrave mode functions the way it sounds then I might very well jump ship, which is something I've never considered in the 16 years I've been using Finale.

To be able to just work graphically without any ties to an audio engine or even musical rules would make the work I do so much easier (scholarly music examples mostly).


2.9 GHz i5 27" iMac 8GB 10.10.1 / 2.5 GHz i7 17" MacBook Pro 16GB 10.10.1 / Finale 2014d / GPO4 / Kontakt 5 / Logic Pro 10.0.7

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Michel R. E.
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   Posted 10/12/2016 3:36 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Wait, it now says in the system requirements that it needs 64 bit Windows 10??

Then I'll never try it. There's no F***ing way I am installing that monstrosity that is Windows 10.


Finale (started with ver. 3.0) using 2012 (2014 has been shelved for its lack of support for older Garritan libraries), putting Finale 25 through its paces.
Windows 8.1
basically ALL Garritan libraries, plus XSample Chamber Ensemble.

"Art critics suffer from Pigeon Syndrome. Pigeons like to leave their mark on monuments. But at the end of the day, the pigeon remains a pigeon, and the monument remains a monument."

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Ralph L. Bowers Jr.
Polymathist



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   Posted 10/12/2016 3:42 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Michel R. E. said...
Wait, it now says in the system requirements that it needs 64 bit Windows 10??

Then I'll never try it. There's no F***ing way I am installing that monstrosity that is Windows 10.


I'm thinking it just may function just fine on Windows 7 and on up. You know windows is not as dysfunctional with software as MAC is.


Finale 2010b, 2011b, 2012c, 2014d, 2014.5 TGTools Pro, Patterson plugins, JW plugins (current for each Finale Instalation)
Sibelius 6.2, 7.1.3, 7.5.1, 8.4.2, Write Score Sound Sets, TMT Publisher Bundle Plugins, Bob Zawalich plugins, Dolet 6.6
Print Music 2004, 2010a, 2011a, 2014a
Progression, Progression 2, Progression 3, Notion 4, [Notion 5, (bought but not installed)update finally installed]
Pro Tools 9.5, Reaper
Kontakt 5
GPO4, GPO5, World Instruments
SmartScore X Pro, SmartScore X2 Pro, PhotoScore Ultimate 6 & 7 & 8.04 ( 7 has some utility----best of those available, 8 has some issues that need fixing)
M-Audio "Oxygen 25" Midi input keyboard (recent addition 2014)
Systems (5) // Windows XP Pro (32bit), [email protected] Windows 7 Pro, 8.1 Pro, Windows 10 64 bit, 4GB - 16GB RAM
Paper & Pencil

BMus, MM (Musicology)

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michelp
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   Posted 10/12/2016 3:44 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
It would be wise not to "jump ship" too early because version 1.0 will be missing some important features :
No chord symbols, no repeat ending lines, no fingerings, no jazz articulations, no rhythm slashes, limited support for third party virtual instruments (according to a pdf, with detailed features)


Michel
Finale 2014.5, 2012c (main), MacOsX 10.11.6, Mac Mini Intel Core i7 2,7 Ghz, 16 Go Ram, French azerty kb, Dolet 6. Full TGTools. MOTU Audio Express, 3 monitors.

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stringtapper
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   Posted 10/12/2016 4:00 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
michelp said...
It would be wise not to "jump ship" too early because version 1.0 will be missing some important features :
No chord symbols, no repeat ending lines, no fingerings, no jazz articulations, no rhythm slashes, limited support for third party virtual instruments (according to a pdf, with detailed features)


Yeah I saw all of that. In reality it's not like I'm going to uninstall Finale as soon as I install Dorico. I mean I still have Sibelius installed even though I rarely use it.

But if Dorico does have a truly free graphical mode then I will certainly be doing the bulk of my work with it. Being able to limit my work to one application instead of Finale –> Illustrator would be a huge workflow improvement for me.


2.9 GHz i5 27" iMac 8GB 10.10.1 / 2.5 GHz i7 17" MacBook Pro 16GB 10.10.1 / Finale 2014d / GPO4 / Kontakt 5 / Logic Pro 10.0.7

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Shnootre
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   Posted 10/12/2016 10:03 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
michelp said...
It would be wise not to "jump ship" too early because version 1.0 will be missing some important features :
No chord symbols, no repeat ending lines, no fingerings, no jazz articulations, no rhythm slashes, limited support for third party virtual instruments (according to a pdf, with detailed features)



I could live without most of that, but not the limited support for third party virtual insts. It sounded to me like they were going to support most libraries; is that PDF publicly available?


Daniel Sonenberg
Macbook Pro 2.5 GHz Intel Core i7
OSX 10.9.4
16 gig ram
GPO4 full and JABB3
A bunch of sample libraries
Finale 25
Logic X

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stringtapper
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   Posted 10/12/2016 11:52 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
www.steinberg.net/index.php?eID=tx_nawsecuredl&u=0&g=0&t=1476365022&hash=b5a4d0d5f460019016704b9c391b4def80d14203&file=fileadmin/files/PRODUCTS/Dorico/Downloads/Dorico_Feature_Overview_20161010.pdf


2.9 GHz i5 27" iMac 8GB 10.10.1 / 2.5 GHz i7 17" MacBook Pro 16GB 10.10.1 / Finale 2014d / GPO4 / Kontakt 5 / Logic Pro 10.0.7

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nordensten
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   Posted 10/13/2016 3:06 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Shnootre said...

I could live without most of that, but not the limited support for third party virtual insts. It sounded to me like they were going to support most libraries; is that PDF publicly available?


It has been clearly stated that they will (in the not too distant future) support wellbehaved VST2's, like Kontakt and Play, but not in version 1 apparently. It's a bit like launching a new Ferrari with bicycle tyres... :)


(Finale 1.0 (1988) -> v.25) using 2012c & v.25
Cubase 8.5 Pro & Reaper - Vienna Ensemble Pro - Ircam SPAT - Hauptwerk 4 - (Overture 5)
Libraries: VSL, Spitfire, Orchestral Tools, Xsample, Embertone, Wallander, Pianoteq, Sample Modeling, EWQL +++
Garritan Steinway - Garritan CFX pianos
Multiple Windows computers W7/W8.1/i7/32GB

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Dr. Wiggy
Early music: modern methods



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   Posted 10/13/2016 3:12 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
$299 is a bit stiff for a crossgrade. Finale's crossgrade price is $149. Sibelius crossgrade price is £178.80 (so probably $199). I would hope to see some really good introductory offers, if they want to get reasonable uptake and develop a user-base.


Finale v.25, 2012 MacMini; 2012 MacBook Pro (10.11.6)
Edirol FA-66; Roland A-49, HP Laserjet 5200 DTN
Ancient Groove Music www.ancientgroove.co.uk

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nordensten
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   Posted 10/13/2016 3:53 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Don't forget that Steinberg is a german company :) They did say though (on the VI-C forum) that the final prices were to be announced on launch day...


(Finale 1.0 (1988) -> v.25) using 2012c & v.25
Cubase 8.5 Pro & Reaper - Vienna Ensemble Pro - Ircam SPAT - Hauptwerk 4 - (Overture 5)
Libraries: VSL, Spitfire, Orchestral Tools, Xsample, Embertone, Wallander, Pianoteq, Sample Modeling, EWQL +++
Garritan Steinway - Garritan CFX pianos
Multiple Windows computers W7/W8.1/i7/32GB

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Ralph L. Bowers Jr.
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   Posted 10/13/2016 10:32 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Michel R. E. said...
Wait, it now says in the system requirements that it needs 64 bit Windows 10??

Then I'll never try it. There's no F***ing way I am installing that monstrosity that is Windows 10.



You may be interested in reading through this? /www.steinberg.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=246&t=102904


Finale 2010b, 2011b, 2012c, 2014d, 2014.5 TGTools Pro, Patterson plugins, JW plugins (current for each Finale Instalation)
Sibelius 6.2, 7.1.3, 7.5.1, 8.4.2, Write Score Sound Sets, TMT Publisher Bundle Plugins, Bob Zawalich plugins, Dolet 6.6
Print Music 2004, 2010a, 2011a, 2014a
Progression, Progression 2, Progression 3, Notion 4, [Notion 5, (bought but not installed)update finally installed]
Pro Tools 9.5, Reaper
Kontakt 5
GPO4, GPO5, World Instruments
SmartScore X Pro, SmartScore X2 Pro, PhotoScore Ultimate 6 & 7 & 8.04 ( 7 has some utility----best of those available, 8 has some issues that need fixing)
M-Audio "Oxygen 25" Midi input keyboard (recent addition 2014)
Systems (5) // Windows XP Pro (32bit), [email protected] Windows 7 Pro, 8.1 Pro, Windows 10 64 bit, 4GB - 16GB RAM
Paper & Pencil

BMus, MM (Musicology)

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Motet
Isorhythmic



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   Posted 10/13/2016 1:40 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I'm excited to see what Dorico is like, but I will wait a year or so before considering switching.


Finale 2014.5, 2011b, 2005, TGTools
Windows 7, MIDI input
Finale Transposition Chart

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EscapeNote
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   Posted 10/13/2016 5:28 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I will be among the first in line to check out Dorico. Even considering there are still many features - chord slashes, etc - to be implemented, I will happily buy into v1, patiently wait for the updates and continue doing my professional work in Finale during the transition.

I've been with Finale for almost 3 decades! In all that time I've become quite adept a creating workarounds to get things done and I've kept holding out hope that "the next upgrade will really be an improvement".

But every update still feels cumbersome and like it's years behind where it should be.

Take for instance this forum: I can't simply highlight a word and then select "I" above for italics. That's the way it's done in pretty much every other online forum I've encountered. Instead, if I really want to italicize a word, I need to type the brackets and insert small letter "i" in them, before and after the word I want to italicize, making sure to include the slash before the final bracket after the word. I learned how to accomplish this small task - with 8 steps instead of 2 - by reading the "mCode Help" above the posting window.

That is consistent with my overall experience of working in Finale.

I am thrilled at the promise of a music notation software with a more intuitive workflow and with playback/sequencing capabilities that are consistent with modern music production. It seems to me like Steinberg are on the right track. I hope they will fully commit, get it right and hang in there for the long term. If so, I'll be happily making the transition.


Finale 2014.d
MacPro (Late 2013)
16 GB RAM
OS X 10.10.4
Garritan JABB, Ivory American Grand Pianos, Embertone, BFD3, Mach V, Pro Tools, Reason...

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nordensten
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   Posted 10/14/2016 3:53 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I think the release of Dorico will be a great inspiration for Makemusic.

As seasoned Finale users know, Sibelius was never a real threat in terms of advanced engraving capabilities. Eventually, in the short to medium term, Dorico will be, provided Steinberg continues to pump millions into its development. After more than three years of design and coding, Steinberg obviously have put great pressure on the Dorico team to come up with a release. As has been openly communicated on the Dorico forum, this first release lacks a lot of basic functionality. Functionality that every seasoned Finale user will take for granted in a notation program. No chords, no first and second endings, no big time signatures, very convoluted playback, no MIDI out etc.

Also, the Steinberg marketing people have manged to release several illustrations containing notational errors. Personally I think there is a slight chance that Dorico may flop because of the premature release. If they play their cards right, Makemusic now has a chance to really improve Finale IMHO...


(Finale 1.0 (1988) -> v.25) using 2012c & v.25
Cubase 8.5 Pro & Reaper - Vienna Ensemble Pro - Ircam SPAT - Hauptwerk 4 - (Overture 5)
Libraries: VSL, Spitfire, Orchestral Tools, Xsample, Embertone, Wallander, Pianoteq, Sample Modeling, EWQL +++
Garritan Steinway - Garritan CFX pianos
Multiple Windows computers W7/W8.1/i7/32GB

Post Edited (nordensten) : 10/14/2016 3:56:14 AM (GMT-5)

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Charles Lawrence
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   Posted 10/14/2016 7:27 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
EscapeNote said...
Take for instance this forum: I can't simply highlight a word and then select "I" above for italics. That's the way it's done in pretty much every other online forum I've encountered.

Admitted, the forum software is old and no longer available or upgradeable.  I know this is the Mac side of the forum, but I believe it was designed for a Windows environment using IE.  I have to put makemusic.com in "Tools/Compatibility View settings" before IE11 works as intended.  Once that is done, the forum acts as a WYSIWYG editor where you can do exactly what you describe, as well as many more editing features with the button/tool bars.  The editor will have an active link in the upper left corner just above the Emoticons where you can toggle between "Standard Form", the non-WYSIWYG way, and "Advanced Form", the WYSIWYG way.


"Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about!"

Windows 10 Professional (x64) (build 10586)
 
3.50 gigahertz Intel Core i7-5930K, Multi-core (6 total), Hyper-threaded (12 total)
32638 Megabytes Usable Installed Memory, 17514.37 Gigabytes Usable Hard Drive Capacity
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 980 - 4GB [Display adapter]
ASUS Rampage V Extreme motherboard, Realtek HD Audio

Finale 2014.5.6359
Garritan GPO4.02


Cakewalk SONAR X3 - (X3e build 244) - x64, Sound Forge Audio Studio 10.0, Audacity 2.1.0
Sharpeye 2.68, PhotoScore Ultimate 7.0.2, SmartScore X2 Pro 10.5.8

"There is a world of difference between a person who has a big problem and a person who makes a problem big." – John Maxwell

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Dr. Wiggy
Early music: modern methods



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   Posted 10/14/2016 7:40 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
The trouble is that the forum contains a vast amount of useful information (though the signal to noise ratio at times can be high... :p ). Trying to import the old posts to a new database might be a ridiculous task, so they would have to draw a line under it and start again.

The same could be said for Finale itself. One of the biggest problems for future development is the need to open legacy files correctly.


Finale v.25, 2012 MacMini; 2012 MacBook Pro (10.11.6)
Edirol FA-66; Roland A-49, HP Laserjet 5200 DTN
Ancient Groove Music www.ancientgroove.co.uk

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MikeHalloran
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   Posted 10/14/2016 11:14 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Michel R. E. said...
Wait, it now says in the system requirements that it needs 64 bit Windows 10??

Then I'll never try it. There's no F***ing way I am installing that monstrosity that is Windows 10.

So what? If that's really the requirement, then you don't get to use the application. Get over it—there's no issue here.

Mac and PC users have been facing this for decades. Insisting that you won't use something because you can't might get you some sympathy but, in the end, you are just howling in the wind.

I agree that Windows 10 is to be avoided. One of the many reasons I prefer the Mac—even when my day job insisted I use Win.


Finale 25, 2014.5, SmartScore X Pro II, Encore 5.07, GPO 5
2010 iMac i7, 32G RAM, 2T SSD, Late 2013 MacBook Air, OS 10.12
MOTU Digital Performer 9.12, 9.02, Logic Pro X 10.2.4

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MikeHalloran
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   Posted 10/14/2016 11:18 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
As to the topic, Dorico will have to bring a lot to the table to get me as a customer.

I'll try the demo when there is one but, right now, I can't see anything that interests me.


Finale 25, 2014.5, SmartScore X Pro II, Encore 5.07, GPO 5
2010 iMac i7, 32G RAM, 2T SSD, Late 2013 MacBook Air, OS 10.12
MOTU Digital Performer 9.12, 9.02, Logic Pro X 10.2.4

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Michel R. E.
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   Posted 10/14/2016 11:30 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
MikeHalloran said...
Michel R. E. said...
Wait, it now says in the system requirements that it needs 64 bit Windows 10??

Then I'll never try it. There's no F***ing way I am installing that monstrosity that is Windows 10.

So what? If that's really the requirement, then you don't get to use the application. Get over it—there's no issue here.

Mac and PC users have been facing this for decades. Insisting that you won't use something because you can't might get you some sympathy but, in the end, you are just howling in the wind.

I agree that Windows 10 is to be avoided. One of the many reasons I prefer the Mac—even when my day job insisted I use Win.


I've been curious and hopeful for Dorico since it was announced years ago.

But I'm wondering what gives you the right to ridicule my opinion.
"Get over it"?

I didn't post to elicit "sympathy". I posted because it's a potential client issue that directly affects me - a potential buyer of the product, and it reflects on the marketability of the product. limiting it to the very latest OS, one which is heavily criticized and contentious, isn't - in my opinion (which was what I was emitting here) - the smartest move by Steinberg.

I notice that you yourself posted an "I won't use it, it doesn't interest me" post of your own.
How about a "who cares" as a retort?


Finale (started with ver. 3.0) using 2012 (2014 has been shelved for its lack of support for older Garritan libraries), putting Finale 25 through its paces.
Windows 8.1
basically ALL Garritan libraries, plus XSample Chamber Ensemble.

"Art critics suffer from Pigeon Syndrome. Pigeons like to leave their mark on monuments. But at the end of the day, the pigeon remains a pigeon, and the monument remains a monument."

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nordensten
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   Posted 10/14/2016 11:47 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Michel R. E. said...
Wait, it now says in the system requirements that it needs 64 bit Windows 10??


The official sysreq is W10, but, although no guarantees are given, they claim it should run on W7 SP1 and W8.1 - PROVIDED the latest incarnation of the Microsoft .NET Framework (4.6.2) is installed. They have apparently employed between 100 and 200 beta testers, and I find it puzzling that they haven't checked this out in more detail. Especially taken the somewhat convoluted authorization scheme into account. After all it's no big secret that a very high percentage of music professionals still swear by W7.


(Finale 1.0 (1988) -> v.25) using 2012c & v.25
Cubase 8.5 Pro & Reaper - Vienna Ensemble Pro - Ircam SPAT - Hauptwerk 4 - (Overture 5)
Libraries: VSL, Spitfire, Orchestral Tools, Xsample, Embertone, Wallander, Pianoteq, Sample Modeling, EWQL +++
Garritan Steinway - Garritan CFX pianos
Multiple Windows computers W7/W8.1/i7/32GB

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Motet
Isorhythmic



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   Posted 10/14/2016 10:09 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Dr. Wiggy said...
The trouble is that the forum contains a vast amount of useful information (though the signal to noise ratio at times can be high... :p ). Trying to import the old posts to a new database might be a ridiculous task, so they would have to draw a line under it and start again.

I used to be in the forums software business. Importing old posts is not rocket science.


Finale 2014.5, 2011b, 2005, TGTools
Windows 7, MIDI input
Finale Transposition Chart

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Vaughan
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   Posted 10/17/2016 4:17 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
MikeHalloran said...
As to the topic, Dorico will have to bring a lot to the table to get me as a customer.
I'll try the demo when there is one but, right now, I can't see anything that interests me.

You should look at Dorico's comprehensive list of features, many of which are either impossible in Finale or which require extensive, time-consuming workarounds. While it looks as though Dorico will be just as flexible as Finale is, its defaults have been determined by people who have an extensive knowledge of correct engraving rules. Finale's kind of tabula-rasa flexibility plus its often poor defaults results in many scores which are full of glaring notational errors and ugly engraving, both of which can make the music unnecessarily difficult and unpleasant to read. I'm having to put up with this at the moment: one of the pieces I'm studying has obviously been set in Finale and it's full of badly notated durations, collisions, bad enharmonisations, poor defaults like ledger lines which are just as thin as the staff lines and are very difficult to read, messy placement of objects, etc. Sure, it's possible to do all of this well in Finale but it takes extensive time, knowledge and dedication, most of which are frequently in short supply. Editions like this are far from the exception and, sadly, many musicians have simply become used to seeing and accepting them. I'm hoping that Dorico will start to help this situation.

Take a look at this list of Dorico's features and tell me if you really can't see anything that interests you!
www.steinberg.net/index.php?eID=tx_nawsecuredl&u=0&g=0&t=1476696447&hash=e897155c82fe19c9b450e2461441cd577509dbf9&file=fileadmin/files/PRODUCTS/Dorico/Downloads/Dorico_Feature_Overview_20161010.pdf


Vaughan

Finale 3.2 - 25, Sibelius 4 - 7
Patterson's plugins, Tobias' plugins, full version, waiting for Jari's plugin update
MacOS 10.12
MacPro (2016) 16 GB, MacBookPro (2011) 8 GB

Amsterdam

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John Ruggero
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Total Posts : 820
 
   Posted 10/17/2016 7:49 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
The link seems to have changed. This one works:

http://www.steinberg.net/index.php?eID=tx_nawsecuredl&u=0&g=0&t=1476798246&hash=f5fc7f3dbb5bd277a7e7b9dba27eaed6b4c63827&file=fileadmin/files/PRODUCTS/Dorico/Downloads/Dorico_Feature_Overview_20161010.pdf


Mac mini (OS 10.8.5) with dual monitors, Finale 2014d (Finale 2011 as a backup) with GPO 4
Kurzweil Mark 5 with M-Audio Midisport 2 x 2, Adobe InDesign CS4 SmartScore X Pro, JW Plug-ins
www.cantilenapress.com

The better the composer, the better the notation.

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