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Vaughan
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Date Joined Jun 1999
Total Posts : 4984
 
   Posted 11/19/2016 7:21 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I just bought and installed an official version of Minion Pro Condensed for use as a lyric font. For some reason, this screws up Finale's font menu. Before the installation I had a single Minion Pro font family containing Regular, Italic, Medium, Medium Italic, Bold and Bold Italic. Since installing the one font face, Finale has included it at the bottom of the list but has duplicated the entire font family and the font definitions have all moved down one starting with Medium Italic, IOW, if I now select Medium Italic, Medium is selected. Selecting Bold selects Medium Italic, selecting Bold Italic selects Bold and selecting Condensed selects Bold Italic. If I go to the next iteration of the Minion Pro font family, selecting the first on the list (Regular) selects Condensed. When I select any of the others after this, Finale gives a kind of generic font preview as though those fonts weren't available. What a mess! It's workable but why does Finale have such problems with fonts? Of all my other programs which use fonts, none exhibits this anomalous behaviour.


Vaughan

Finale 3.2 - 25, Sibelius 4 - 7
Patterson's plugins, Tobias' plugins, full version, waiting for Jari's plugin update
MacOS 10.12
MacPro (2016) 16 GB, MacBookPro (2011) 8 GB

Amsterdam

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Vaughan
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Date Joined Jun 1999
Total Posts : 4984
 
   Posted 11/19/2016 8:59 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Just for the record: I've tried running Onyx, clearing the font caches and restarting but nothing helps.


Vaughan

Finale 3.2 - 25, Sibelius 4 - 7
Patterson's plugins, Tobias' plugins, full version, waiting for Jari's plugin update
MacOS 10.12
MacPro (2016) 16 GB, MacBookPro (2011) 8 GB

Amsterdam

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N. Grossingink
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   Posted 11/19/2016 9:26 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I'm not qualified to give any advice regarding fonts, but I'm wondering about-

√ Is there any difference with where the fonts are installed, whether user folder or root level folder?
√ Are your Minion Pro fonts loose inside the font folder, or enclosed within their own folder? Could the Minion Pro Condensed be enclosed in the same folder as the rest of the Minion Pro family?

N.


OSX El Capitan 10.11.6
Finale 2011c, 2012c for production work

Finale 2014.5, not used by my clients

(Finale v25 - not interested yet)

TgTools, Patterson Plugins, JW Change and Staff Polyphony, QuicKeys 4
Mac Mini 2.4 Ghz Intel, 8GB RAM
New Belgium Fat Tire Ale

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Vaughan
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Date Joined Jun 1999
Total Posts : 4984
 
   Posted 11/19/2016 9:37 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Thanks for responding, N. Interestingly, since one of the recent OS updates, I've found very few fonts in System/Library/Fonts, all the others in Library/Fonts and none in User/Library/Fonts, so the vast majority of fonts is located loose in the root level library. I tried placing the Minion Pro files in their own folder and while Finale still recognised the fonts, that didn't change Finale's behaviour, although I'll admit to not having tried deleting the font caches and restarting afterwards.


Vaughan

Finale 3.2 - 25, Sibelius 4 - 7
Patterson's plugins, Tobias' plugins, full version, waiting for Jari's plugin update
MacOS 10.12
MacPro (2016) 16 GB, MacBookPro (2011) 8 GB

Amsterdam

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MikeHalloran
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Date Joined Oct 2001
Total Posts : 217
 
   Posted 11/19/2016 12:50 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Since OS 10.6, fonts should not be installed in the User folder. Deleting any fonts installed there is a good idea and solves lots of problems.

The Mac OS does not require fonts to be installed at all if they are present in the Applications folder. With many applications, the installer will not overwrite older fonts if they're too old. Finale is one of those apps.

Last year, I went into Font Book.app, deleted all Finale fonts, drilled down into 2014.5, found all the fonts and installed them. If you have many opened, you only have to click on the install button once to install them all. I've seen no reason to do it again since 25 but it solved a lot of problems.

opening fonts and installing that way works best for me.


Finale 25.1, 2014.5, 2011c, SmartScore X Pro II, Encore 5.07, GPO 5
2010 iMac i7, 32G RAM, 2T SSD, Late 2013 MacBook Air, OS 10.12.1
MOTU Digital Performer 9.12, 9.02, Logic Pro X 10.2.4

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N. Grossingink
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Total Posts : 3991
 
   Posted 11/19/2016 1:19 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
MikeHalloran said...
Since OS 10.6, fonts should not be installed in the User folder. Deleting any fonts installed there is a good idea and solves lots of problems.

The Mac OS does not require fonts to be installed at all if they are present in the Applications folder. With many applications, the installer will not overwrite older fonts if they're too old. Finale is one of those apps.

Last year, I went into Font Book.app, deleted all Finale fonts, drilled down into 2014.5, found all the fonts and installed them. If you have many opened, you only have to click on the install button once to install them all. I've seen no reason to do it again since 25 but it solved a lot of problems.

opening fonts and installing that way works best for me.


Sorry, I'm not following you.

You say you "drilled down" into 2014.5 to find the fonts. What exactly are the steps? I assume the way you installed the fonts was in the applications folder, as you have indicated. How exactly is this done?

Thanks,
N.


OSX El Capitan 10.11.6
Finale 2011c, 2012c for production work

Finale 2014.5, not used by my clients

(Finale v25 - not interested yet)

TgTools, Patterson Plugins, JW Change and Staff Polyphony, QuicKeys 4
Mac Mini 2.4 Ghz Intel, 8GB RAM
New Belgium Fat Tire Ale

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Vaughan
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Click to send Vaughan email.Personal Homepage Not AvailableSend a Private Message to VaughanAIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined Jun 1999
Total Posts : 4984
 
   Posted 11/19/2016 2:05 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Hmm, interesting. Do you mean that you select Show Package Contents and then put the font files inside the application bundle? I've never seen that done. Where exactly do you put them? And what's the advantage if they won't be available to other applications (like PopChar)?


Vaughan

Finale 3.2 - 25, Sibelius 4 - 7
Patterson's plugins, Tobias' plugins, full version, waiting for Jari's plugin update
MacOS 10.12
MacPro (2016) 16 GB, MacBookPro (2011) 8 GB

Amsterdam

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Dr. Wiggy
Early music: modern methods



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Date Joined Jun 2006
Total Posts : 12628
 
   Posted 11/19/2016 2:30 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
MikeHalloran said...
Since OS 10.6, fonts should not be installed in the User folder. Deleting any fonts installed there is a good idea and solves lots of problems.

I can't say that I've ever heard this before. Apple's own documentation, dated March 2016 lists the user library as one of the locations where fonts may be stored.
/support.apple.com/en-us/HT201722

In early testing of Sierra, I was managing my fonts by just dropping them into the user Library fonts folder without any issues.

It's true that the TrueType versions of the MM fonts are inside the app bundle. They're something to do with SmartMusic, I think -- I don't think they activate in the absence of any other installed fonts. MM used to offer a standalone font installer: might be worth checking the downloads in your MM account.

How old is too old? Traditionally, I deselect the option to install Finale's fonts (the installer contains a shell script to delete PS fonts): Maestro hasn't changed since the tremolo bug back in ... 2007? However, the Finale 25 installer installs fonts with creation and modified dates of 2011 and 2012 for TT fonts; 2009 for PS.


Finale v.25.1, 2012 MacMini; 2012 MacBook Pro (10.11.6 / 10.12.1)
Edirol FA-66; Roland A-49, HP Laserjet 5200 DTN
Ancient Groove Music www.ancientgroove.co.uk

Post Edited (Dr. Wiggy) : 11/19/2016 12:38:19 PM (GMT-6)

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Mike Halloran
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Total Posts : 105
 
   Posted 11/19/2016 2:37 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
If you Show Package Contents/Contents/Resources in 25, you will find the Finale fonts. This is where Mac applications expects to find them and will use them if not installed in FontBook. Some installers overwrite the Font Book versions; others don't or can't.

A lot of confusion and errors are caused by having older versions installed in Fontbook. This affects .pdf export and other services as well.

If you do a Get Info on the fonts installed in Font Book, you might be quite surprised by how old some of them are. You will also likely see a cautionary note—the OS thinks every font should have upper, lower case + numerals — ignore the error.

Nothing wrong with leaving them in the Application but it's a really good idea to delete the old versions from Font Book now and then. As I mentioned, I open the fonts and click the Install button to copy the latest into Font Book.app. The Application fonts remain, BTW.

With your purchased font, I would look for older versions that might still be on your system and make certain that Font Book only has the ones you want to use. No need to put them into Show Package Contents/Contents/Resources if they are in Font Book—unless that fixes your problem. You can't screw up anything that isn't easily undone.


Mike Halloran

Finale 25.1 & 2014.5, SmartScore X Pro II, Encore 5.0.7
2010 iMac 2.93G i7 Quad w/ OWC eSATA mod, 20G RAM, OS 10.12.1, 2T SSD
DP 9.1, 8.07, 7.24, Logic Pro X 10.2.4, DSP-Quattro, PSP, IK, NI, Eventide, Izotope & Antares plugins
G4 running OS 10.4.11 & 9.2 with legacy apps

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Mike Halloran
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Total Posts : 105
 
   Posted 11/19/2016 2:49 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
The only application fonts in my User Library are TurboTax fonts from 2004. I have some specialty fonts there but the latest one was 2010. They don't seem to be doing any harm—and Font Book sees them—so I have left them alone.

Apps that follow the Toolkit put them in the Applications folder nowadays and may or may not install them into the Library where you can access them through Fontbook.app.

Encore was the app that taught me how to round up all old versions, purge and then install only the latest as Font Book was showing 1995 create dates plus I had multiple versions in my User folder. Finale was purgatory by comparison—purging the 1998 & 2002 fonts from my User folder and 2009 fonts from Font Book fixed me up.


Mike Halloran

Finale 25.1 & 2014.5, SmartScore X Pro II, Encore 5.0.7
2010 iMac 2.93G i7 Quad w/ OWC eSATA mod, 20G RAM, OS 10.12.1, 2T SSD
DP 9.1, 8.07, 7.24, Logic Pro X 10.2.4, DSP-Quattro, PSP, IK, NI, Eventide, Izotope & Antares plugins
G4 running OS 10.4.11 & 9.2 with legacy apps

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Dr. Wiggy
Early music: modern methods



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Date Joined Jun 2006
Total Posts : 12628
 
   Posted 11/19/2016 3:23 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Mike Halloran said...
A lot of confusion and errors are caused by having older versions installed in Fontbook.

Taking one font at random, MaestroTimes inside the Application bundle has a creation date of 2016, but is still version 2.0 © 2006, and is identical to the copy in my Font folder, which has a creation date of 2012. I don't think it's any "newer".

I use FontExplorerX to manage my fonts. I've heard it said that the free version, 1.2.3 still works on Sierra. Oddly, I've had compatibility problems with their newest versions, but older ones still work well.

As for Vaughan's trouble, I would certainly submit it to MM. There were some issues in how Finale handled Styles within Font Families, though I thought these were fixed in 2014.


Finale v.25.1, 2012 MacMini; 2012 MacBook Pro (10.11.6 / 10.12.1)
Edirol FA-66; Roland A-49, HP Laserjet 5200 DTN
Ancient Groove Music www.ancientgroove.co.uk

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