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peerlessnerd
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   Posted 12/13/2016 9:40 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Again to be a little more specific, my Macs lasted 7 to 9 "Finale Years," where a combination of mandatory new operating systems plus new Finale versions eventually made further upgrades impossible on the elderly computers. I can still run Finale 1.0 on my G3 under system 8, and even Professional Composer. Not that I would want to do that. I will be able to run Finale 25.2 on El Capitan on my Mac Pro forever too. Eventually I will be overcome by the need for faster machines, newer systems, and improved Finale.

That interval between hardware upgrades continues to shrink. I suppose it is inevitable.


Finale V25.2
Early 2008 Mac Pro Quad-Core 3,1
El Capitan 10.11.6

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Dr. Wiggy
Early music: modern methods



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   Posted 12/13/2016 5:04 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Mike Halloran said...
Officially, it's always been three years, the length of AppleCare.

Perhaps "supported" was the wrong word. Apple declares hardware "vintage" after 5 years and "obsolete" after 7 years, and you cannot even get it fixed for ready money at an Apple Store if it's obsolete. This frequently corresponds with lack of software support. There's certainly no evidence that Apple is shortening the obsolescence time period, as peerlessnerd suggested, though as you point out there have been some hardware changes in the past that have limited software support. However, I think Apple continued to provide updates and security patches to PPC Macs on Leopard even after 10.6 was released.

AppleCare is just an extended warrantee (which is frequently provided by statutory laws in many places anyway).

/support.apple.com/en-us/HT201624


Finale v.25.1, 2012 MacMini; 2012 MacBook Pro (10.11.6 / 10.12.1)
Edirol FA-66; Roland A-49, HP Laserjet 5200 DTN
Ancient Groove Music www.ancientgroove.co.uk

Post Edited (Dr. Wiggy) : 12/13/2016 4:35:56 PM (GMT-6)

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Mike Halloran
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   Posted 12/13/2016 4:53 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Dr. Wiggy said...
peerlessnerd said...
It’s official. Each Mac I have owned has been supported for a decreasing span of years.

Apple has for a long time officially supported Macs for 7 years, and no more. I don't think that has changed.


Officially, it's always been three years, the length of AppleCare.

The early 2009 iMacs cannot run Sierra; the late 2009 iMac can, however as well as the next OS so my 2010 will be seven years and going strong.

Only the earliest G5s lasted longer than 5 years. The late 2005 was done after 4. PPCs could not run OS 10.6, released in 2009 that required an Intel processor. There were G4s from 2006 (Mini, MacBook) that were obsolete within three.

Rosetta for 10.6 allowed many PPC apps to run over 10.6. With Lion (2011), only Universal apps ran on Intel processors. With 10.8.2 (2012), all compatible hardware had to support the 64bit kernel (you could still run apps in 32bit).


Mike Halloran

Finale 25.1 & 2014.5, SmartScore X Pro II, Encore 5.0.7
2010 iMac 2.93G i7 Quad w/ OWC eSATA mod, 20G RAM, OS 10.12.1, 2T SSD
DP 9.1, 8.07, 7.24, Logic Pro X 10.2.4, DSP-Quattro, PSP, IK, NI, Eventide, Izotope & Antares plugins
G4 running OS 10.4.11 & 9.2 with legacy apps

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Dr. Wiggy
Early music: modern methods



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   Posted 12/13/2016 1:59 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
peerlessnerd said...
It’s official. Each Mac I have owned has been supported for a decreasing span of years.

Apple has for a long time officially supported Macs for 7 years, and no more. I don't think that has changed.


Finale v.25.1, 2012 MacMini; 2012 MacBook Pro (10.11.6 / 10.12.1)
Edirol FA-66; Roland A-49, HP Laserjet 5200 DTN
Ancient Groove Music www.ancientgroove.co.uk

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Zuill
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   Posted 12/12/2016 11:42 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Peter Thomsen said...
Zuill said...
Windows does not do that automatically. Obviously Windows and Mac work quite differently …

This is really a surprise.

Take a look at Page 14 in the attached tutorial document where the trick is mentioned (entering - via computer keyboard and entry caret - a whole note on the second half of a 4/4 measure).

I always thought that the tutorial document “EntryExercises” was the same for Windows Finale and Mac Finale.
Perhaps I was wrong.

Peter

Windows has never worked that way, despite what the tutorial says. Quite a difference between Mac and Windows, I would say.
 
Zuill

P.S.: Okay, the tutorial is incomplete. it fails to specify computer keyboard with caret. It mentions this in the prior paragraph, but not in the one regarding this feature. I see now Peter did mention this, but I failed to notice it. I primarily use MIDI keyboard, but occasionally mouse in Simple for editing purposes. Rarely QWERTY entry. I now see this behavior with that method. I have always been careful to not enter the wrong number of notes in a measure, so I would not have tried to force the extra note value. The manual fails to describe this, from what I could find. And the tutorial should have mentioned specifically keyboard with caret. Oh well, another one of those lack of proper documentation issues, I guess.


"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
 
Win 7 64bit, 2011b, 2012c, 2014d, 2014.5, 25.2
 
Favorite Forum quote: "Please, everybody, IGNORE THE TROLL!"

Post Edited (Zuill) : 12/12/2016 11:40:18 PM (GMT-6)

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Vaughan
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   Posted 12/12/2016 7:18 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Interesting about Simple Entry. I'm a Speedy Entry person and I usually get ties over barlines by intentionally overfilling the bar. In this case, Finale has always taken over the accidental correctly from the previous bar. Hasn't the Windows version always worked this way, too?


Vaughan

Finale 3.2 - 25.1, Sibelius 4 - 7
Patterson's plugins, Tobias' plugins, full version, waiting for Jari's plugin update
MacOS 10.12
MacPro (2016) 16 GB, MacBookPro (2011) 8 GB

Amsterdam

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peerlessnerd
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   Posted 12/12/2016 6:18 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Surprised to learn I an now officially obsolete! My trusty Early 2008 Mac Pro is no longer supported by Apple, with 2009 architecture being the minimum requirement for Sierra.
I am a dinosaur stuck on El Capitan “forever and ever, amen.”

It’s official. Each Mac I have owned has been supported for a decreasing span of years. This is my third Mac since late 1986. This latest one lasted a little over 8 years.

Those of you with 2009 and 2010 Macs beware. One more Sierra update in 2017 and you may be an obsolete dinosaur too.


Finale V25.2
Early 2008 Mac Pro Quad-Core 3,1
El Capitan 10.11.6

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Peter Thomsen
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   Posted 12/12/2016 5:43 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Zuill said...
Windows does not do that automatically. Obviously Windows and Mac work quite differently …

This is really a surprise.

Take a look at Page 14 in the attached tutorial document where the trick is mentioned (entering - via computer keyboard and entry caret - a whole note on the second half of a 4/4 measure).

I always thought that the tutorial document “EntryExercises” was the same for Windows Finale and Mac Finale.
Perhaps I was wrong.

Peter


Mac Finale, 2012c, 2014d & 2014.5, Dolet 6.6 plug-in, Mac OS X 10.11.6, iMac Intel Core i7, 2.93 GHz, 16 GB RAM



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Zuill
"The Troll"



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   Posted 12/12/2016 5:16 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Windows does not do that automatically. Obviously Windows and Mac work quite differently.

Zuill


"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
 
Win 7 64bit, 2011b, 2012c, 2014d, 2014.5, 25.2
 
Favorite Forum quote: "Please, everybody, IGNORE THE TROLL!"

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Dr. Wiggy
Early music: modern methods



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   Posted 12/12/2016 3:34 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
In Simple Entry, if you add a note that is too big for the measure, it will tie the "excess" into the next measure.


Finale v.25.1, 2012 MacMini; 2012 MacBook Pro (10.11.6 / 10.12.1)
Edirol FA-66; Roland A-49, HP Laserjet 5200 DTN
Ancient Groove Music www.ancientgroove.co.uk

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Zuill
"The Troll"



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   Posted 12/12/2016 1:55 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I submitted a support request about this. The readme mentions overfilled measures, and you mention ties. I think there is something amiss.

Zuill


"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
 
Win 7 64bit, 2011b, 2012c, 2014d, 2014.5, 25.2
 
Favorite Forum quote: "Please, everybody, IGNORE THE TROLL!"

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Zuill
"The Troll"



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   Posted 12/12/2016 10:17 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Dr. Wiggy said...
Zuill said...
Regarding the tied note over the barline, I'm not sure that works in Windows. What steps do you use?


In Simple Entry with a 4/4 measure:

1. Add a Quarter note F#.
2. Add a Half note G.
3. Add a Half on the F pitch, without selecting 1/2 or # in the palette.
4. Add another F in the new measure.

Voilà: both sides of the tie are at the correct pitch, and the next F in the measure will also have the sharp.

Previously, one would have to manually add the accidental to the second note of the tie, (although it doesn't display, so you can't tell until playback).

Windows doesn't behave that way. I'm entering with the mouse. I also tried with the QWERTY keyboard.
 
Zuill


"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
 
Win 7 64bit, 2011b, 2012c, 2014d, 2014.5, 25.2
 
Favorite Forum quote: "Please, everybody, IGNORE THE TROLL!"

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Bill Stevens
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   Posted 12/12/2016 7:02 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Thanks to Peerless for the tip on getting past the installation freeze. I now have 25.2 installed.

Bill


Finale 2014.5 (all versions since 1.0)
Finally made the move from my trusty 2011c
Staff Paper and #1 Blackwing Pencil with eraser
OS 10.9.4 on one, 10.10.5 on another

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MikeHalloran
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   Posted 12/12/2016 6:13 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
peerlessnerd said...
To be more clear, the reason I haven’t moved to Sierra was due to described issues here on the forum by Ed Cupman and others involving pallet display bugs and other issues relative to 2014.5 and 25.1 on Sierra as opposed to El Capitan.

As was widely reported, that was fixed in 25.1 and is unchanged in 25.2.

[quote"peerlessnerd"]Again, my point here is that 2014.5 opens elderly files which refuse to open in 25.1 or 25.2 under El Capitan. The workaround is to open these elderly files in 2014.5, save them, then open and save those 2014…

I have files going back to 1991. Haven't experienced this. I remember adding the .mus suffix to many old files around 15 years ago (OS 10.2?). Perhaps doing that bit of maintenance back then is why... don't know.

I have not pulled 2014.5 from my system--or 2011 for that matter. Yes, the JW plugs in 64bit will be nice but it's not essential I have them Right Now! Since I upgraded to SmartScore Pro in 2010 and X2 in 2012, it doesn't affect me that the SmartScore Lite functions are gone. Pro is a major time saver and has paid for itself many times over, IMO.


Finale 25.1, 2014.5, 2011c, SmartScore X Pro II, Encore 5.07, GPO 5
2010 iMac i7, 32G RAM, 2T SSD, Late 2013 MacBook Air, OS 10.12.1
MOTU Digital Performer 9.12, 9.02, Logic Pro X 10.2.4

Post Edited (MikeHalloran) : 12/12/2016 5:16:28 AM (GMT-6)

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Dr. Wiggy
Early music: modern methods



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   Posted 12/12/2016 3:01 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Zuill said...
Regarding the tied note over the barline, I'm not sure that works in Windows. What steps do you use?


In Simple Entry with a 4/4 measure:

1. Add a Quarter note F#.
2. Add a Half note G.
3. Add a Half on the F pitch, without selecting 1/2 or # in the palette.
4. Add another F in the new measure.

Voilà: both sides of the tie are at the correct pitch, and the next F in the measure will also have the sharp.

Previously, one would have to manually add the accidental to the second note of the tie, (although it doesn't display, so you can't tell until playback).


Finale v.25.1, 2012 MacMini; 2012 MacBook Pro (10.11.6 / 10.12.1)
Edirol FA-66; Roland A-49, HP Laserjet 5200 DTN
Ancient Groove Music www.ancientgroove.co.uk

Post Edited (Dr. Wiggy) : 12/12/2016 3:23:50 AM (GMT-6)

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Zuill
"The Troll"



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   Posted 12/12/2016 2:33 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Regarding the tied note over the barline, I'm not sure that works in Windows. What steps do you use?

Zuill


"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
 
Win 7 64bit, 2011b, 2012c, 2014d, 2014.5, 25.2
 
Favorite Forum quote: "Please, everybody, IGNORE THE TROLL!"

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Dr. Wiggy
Early music: modern methods



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   Posted 12/12/2016 2:01 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I think the Sierra tool palette issues were cleared up with 25.1. We're still waiting for Jari's plug-ins, of course. I have one Mac on El Capitan and one on Sierra, but I've not seen any difference currently.

I've not seen any problems with old files. Any chance you could post one here? When you say "refuse to open", what exactly happens?

Generally, I'm very happy with Finale 25. The fix to tied notes over barlines in Simple Entry will save me loads of time. (The note over the bar maintains prior accidentals.)

There's still more work to be done, of course, but MM's promise of many free updates to address the problems is very encouraging.


Finale v.25.1, 2012 MacMini; 2012 MacBook Pro (10.11.6 / 10.12.1)
Edirol FA-66; Roland A-49, HP Laserjet 5200 DTN
Ancient Groove Music www.ancientgroove.co.uk

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peerlessnerd
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   Posted 12/12/2016 12:16 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
To be more clear, the reason I haven’t moved to Sierra was due to described issues here on the forum by Ed Cupman and others involving pallet display bugs and other issues relative to 2014.5 and 25.1 on Sierra as opposed to El Capitan.
Dr. Wiggy can you confirm those issues are resolved in Sierra with 25.2? Is there some other Sierra-related reason I should stay with El Capitan?
If there are no display issues and Jari’s current plugins are functional under 25.2 on Sierra, I see no reason not to upgrade to Sierra in terms of Finale.

Again, my point here is that 2014.5 opens elderly files which refuse to open in 25.1 or 25.2 under El Capitan. The workaround is to open these elderly files in 2014.5, save them, then open and save those 2014.5 files in 25.2.
I won’t know if these elderly files will open in 25.2 under Sierra until I upgrade, but am skeptical of success.
Is it wise to upgrade to Sierra with Finale 25.2?

You sound happy…


Finale V25.2
Early 2008 Mac Pro Quad-Core 3,1
El Capitan 10.11.6

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Dr. Wiggy
Early music: modern methods



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   Posted 12/11/2016 5:23 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
peerlessnerd said...
Also, I am still in El Capitan, waiting like the rest of us for Jari to come to the rescue before moving to Sierra, though the improvements in 25.2 seems to have fixed the issues holding me back on the latest operating system.

As far as I know, there's no issues with using Jari's plug-ins on Sierra. I can use them in 2014.5 on Sierra and they seem to work fine. The issue is simply getting new 64-bit plug-ins for Finale 25, whatever the OS.

jasako said...
peerlessnerd said...
Fellow Finale dinosaurs, don't throw away 2014.5 if you have old files, otherwise they might never open again.

I too have kept 2014.5 on my machines, like virtually everyone else here it seems. Backwards compatibility means I can batch run all those lovely plugins on scores I have "finished off" in F25

However, don't forget that loading and saving on 2014.5 removes any "newer" features. I wanted to run some plug-ins on a document with dashed slurs, and they all got changed -- not to dashed curves, but to Flipped Slurs! I "corrected" several by flipping them back before I realised what had happened.


Finale v.25.1, 2012 MacMini; 2012 MacBook Pro (10.11.6 / 10.12.1)
Edirol FA-66; Roland A-49, HP Laserjet 5200 DTN
Ancient Groove Music www.ancientgroove.co.uk

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jasako
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   Posted 12/11/2016 4:48 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
peerlessnerd said...
Fellow Finale dinosaurs, don't throw away 2014.5 if you have old files, otherwise they might never open again.

I too have kept 2014.5 on my machines, like virtually everyone else here it seems. Backwards compatibility means I can batch run all those lovely plugins on scores I have "finished off" in F25


Adelaide Australia
(In the middle, down the bottom)
iMac 2.7 Ghz Core i5
Macbook Pro 2.2 Ghz Core i7

OSX Yosimite 10.10.5
Finale 25.2.0.79
Finale 2014.c.v4736

GPO 4
Acorn Masterkey 61

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peerlessnerd
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   Posted 12/11/2016 2:53 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Crossed all appendages and installed 25.2 on my ancient MacPro. My installation appeared to "hang" like Bill Stevens above. Actually, the "Installing Update" splash screen simply failed to disappear. If you look at Bill's attachment, you will notice the "Continue" button is visible in the background. If you click on the Continue button, the Installing Update screen disappears, and the installation continues. I did have to wait a while for the Continue button to appear in the background, maybe a minute or two with my slow ISP. (At least that's how it worked on my machine.)

25.2 runs fine on my MacPro after 5 hours work thus far.

I do not have numerous Finalescripts like Vaughan. That appears the likely problem for him, which was solved by Dr. Wiggy.

Also, I am still in El Capitan, waiting like the rest of us for Jari to come to the rescue before moving to Sierra, though the improvements in 25.2 seems to have fixed the issues holding me back on the latest operating system.

I have noticed something disturbing. Both 25.1 and 25.2 hangs when opening elderly Finale files. Working to determine exactly how old, but files created prior to linked parts seem to be the issue. 2014.5 DOES open most files prior the .mus format. For really ancient files you must add .mus to each file name. (Thanks Dr. Wiggy)

So MacPro users, Finale 25.2 DOES load and run on MacPro, but beware of Finalescripts, and perhaps elderly Finale files.

Fellow Finale dinosaurs, don't throw away 2014.5 if you have old files, otherwise they might never open again. My thanks to jasako "down under" for his response.


Finale V25.1
Early 2008 Mac Pro Quad-Core 3,1
El Capitan 10.11.6

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jasako
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   Posted 12/10/2016 6:01 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Hi Jim,
I've been running 25.2 on an older iMac (2012) and a new Macbook Pro for for a couple of days now with no issues – but let's not jinx it!


Adelaide Australia
(In the middle, down the bottom)
iMac 2.7 Ghz Core i5
Macbook Pro 2.2 Ghz Core i7

OSX Yosimite 10.10.5
Finale 25.2.0.79
Finale 2014.c.v4736

GPO 4
Acorn Masterkey 61

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MikeHalloran
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   Posted 12/10/2016 12:05 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Vaughan said...
Mike, I haven't noticed how they function differently. Can you explain?
Here you go:

/makemusic.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/community/posts/239585788-V25-2-update-BUG


Finale 25.1, 2014.5, 2011c, SmartScore X Pro II, Encore 5.07, GPO 5
2010 iMac i7, 32G RAM, 2T SSD, Late 2013 MacBook Air, OS 10.12.1
MOTU Digital Performer 9.12, 9.02, Logic Pro X 10.2.4

Post Edited (MikeHalloran) : 12/10/2016 11:45:29 AM (GMT-6)

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Bill Stevens
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   Posted 12/10/2016 10:46 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
For me, installation gets to this point and freezes.

Bill


Finale 2014.5 (all versions since 1.0)
Finally made the move from my trusty 2011c
Staff Paper and #1 Blackwing Pencil with eraser
OS 10.9.4 on one, 10.10.5 on another


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Vaughan
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   Posted 12/10/2016 8:04 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Mike, I haven't noticed how they function differently. Can you explain?


Vaughan

Finale 3.2 - 25.1, Sibelius 4 - 7
Patterson's plugins, Tobias' plugins, full version, waiting for Jari's plugin update
MacOS 10.12
MacPro (2016) 16 GB, MacBookPro (2011) 8 GB

Amsterdam

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