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BobRock
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   Posted 1/12/2004 1:02 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
dtoub said...
It has nothing to do with pessimism or optimism. The Mac user base has every right to kvetch that software that was announced, with a release date, several months ago is very late, with no definitive release date. I was initially sympathetic and understanding, but this has now become ludricrous. And I would not hold out for 2005-why should anyone assume that would arrive for X "a few months earlier than usual" and be satisfied with that?


Now, that IS a bit pessimist statement eyes
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pgburrucker
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   Posted 1/12/2004 1:10 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
And we also may all win the lottery tomorrow. Why is it that "sounding optimistic" or "having a good attitude" frequently smells like being in denial? Not to find fault with BobRock's post (those ARE good examples), but to me the compelling evidence points to MakeMusic either going belly-up, or dropping the Mac platform. This is NOT my belief, but if I had to make an honest guess, that would be it. I can't find out if beta testing is still active for Mac, there's no word from MakeMusic, and 2004 for Mac is by any point of view well past any reasonable estimation of being past due.

Being optimistic or pessimistic has more to do with hoping than it has to do with guessing.


Paul B.
_______________________
"You can lead a horse to water,
but you can't drink one."

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traugh
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   Posted 1/12/2004 2:07 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
(dark..............silent............peers around..............looks for signs of life................"sigh")
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encephalon
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   Posted 1/12/2004 3:07 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
dtoub said...
It has nothing to do with pessimism or optimism. The Mac user base has every right to kvetch that software that was announced, with a release date, several months ago is very late, with no definitive release date. I was initially sympathetic and understanding, but this has now become ludricrous. And I would not hold out for 2005-why should anyone assume that would arrive for X "a few months earlier than usual" and be satisfied with that?


I think the joke was based on the idea that the yearly updates usually come out 3-6 months before the calendar year for which the version is named. The hyperbole of the joke was that for all we know 2004 will come out in March or April, and at that point they might as well just call it 2005, so we'd still feel like we have a "current" release since it would be at least another year before the "real 2005" come out.

I'll be at NAMM this week, and you can believe that I'll spend some quality time at the MakeMusic booth.

encephalon
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BobRock
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   Posted 1/12/2004 4:25 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Hey encephalon, let's get rich:

I do the jokes, you do the simultaneous translating, and than people may find them funny....but seriously, it ain't no fun any more, tell'em at their booth (if they still can afford one).

BTW, OS 9 (though I still love it, even if using only in Classic for THE LAST GREAT CLASSIC APP ---> hey folks at MM, that's a great slogan for you now to use!!!!) really disappeared all of a sudden. Nobody protests not being able to boot it on new Macs.

encephalon said...
dtoub said...
It has nothing to do with pessimism or optimism. The Mac user base has every right to kvetch that software that was announced, with a release date, several months ago is very late, with no definitive release date. I was initially sympathetic and understanding, but this has now become ludricrous. And I would not hold out for 2005-why should anyone assume that would arrive for X "a few months earlier than usual" and be satisfied with that?


I think the joke was based on the idea that the yearly updates usually come out 3-6 months before the calendar year for which the version is named. The hyperbole of the joke was that for all we know 2004 will come out in March or April, and at that point they might as well just call it 2005, so we'd still feel like we have a "current" release since it would be at least another year before the "real 2005" come out.

I'll be at NAMM this week, and you can believe that I'll spend some quality time at the MakeMusic booth.

encephalon
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Tom Holtz
not THAT Tom Holtz...



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   Posted 1/13/2004 12:18 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Did you all remember to vote with your wallets? I'm still using Finale 2001. This company will not get any more of my money until they ship a product I want. I've made it clear I'm eager to spend on an OS X version of Finale. Perhaps the Mac community purchased a few too many copies of Finale 2002 and 2003.

Don't think for a moment that Coda is going to dump Mac. There's too much money to lose. If there wasn't lots of money at stake, the good folks who produce Sibelius wouldn't have busted their butts to get their OS X-native app out the door and into your hands. Remember Coda's hilarious "cross-grade" offer of a few years ago? Did we all take Coda up on that offer and switch to Windows? No, Coda is following the money, just like every other business. It's all about the money.

Why is Coda still developing for OS 9? Money. Are you angry about no OS X version yet? Did you pay for a Finale 2003 upgrade that was OS 9-only? You just gave Coda 99 or 129 more reasons to schlep on OS X software. Oops.
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B K
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   Posted 1/13/2004 12:35 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Tom Holtz said...
I'm still using Finale 2001.


I just can't understand how anybody can live without the Rhymer, without palettes in 5 different colours or the Band-in-the-box lite, let alone OpenMusic (this one's for long hours of solitude when one needs some enigmatic problem solving, like figuring out what's the software for...) blush cool devil eyes mad lol idea freaked redface rolleyes sad scool smile :-) shocked smilewinkgrin :p tongue ;-)


smurf smurf smurf smurf smurf
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ctj
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   Posted 1/13/2004 12:53 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Tom Holtz said...
Did you all remember to vote with your wallets? I'm still using Finale 2001. This company will not get any more of my money until they ship a product I want. I've made it clear I'm eager to spend on an OS X version of Finale. Perhaps the Mac community purchased a few too many copies of Finale 2002 and 2003.

Don't think for a moment that Coda is going to dump Mac. There's too much money to lose. If there wasn't lots of money at stake, the good folks who produce Sibelius wouldn't have busted their butts to get their OS X-native app out the door and into your hands. Remember Coda's hilarious "cross-grade" offer of a few years ago? Did we all take Coda up on that offer and switch to Windows? No, Coda is following the money, just like every other business. It's all about the money.

Why is Coda still developing for OS 9? Money. Are you angry about no OS X version yet? Did you pay for a Finale 2003 upgrade that was OS 9-only? You just gave Coda 99 or 129 more reasons to schlep on OS X software. Oops.


Amen! I've used Finale since the 2.0 days, and had been steadily upgrading whenever they put out a new release, until I got to Finale 99. That's when I figured out it didn't make sense to keep paying for new features I didn't need, and certainly not to pay for a version which wouldn't be OSX native (even though at that time, OSX was in its infancy.) I resolved myself to not buy again until they had OSX-native support, plain and simple.
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James III
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   Posted 1/13/2004 1:03 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Howdy all! Here is a reply I recieved this morning from Make Music:

Dear James,

It looks as though the master has been approved, and will be sent off for duplication in the next day or so, so the Finale 2004 for Mac OSX product should start to ship by the beginning of next week. We will be working to get all of our present pre-orders shipped as quickly as possible, so most users should be receiving their shipments in a couple of weeks or so. As long as you have a current email listed on your account, you should receive an email with tracking information when your order ships.

Sincerely,

Norm

Customer Service

>> MakeMusic! Inc.
>> Coda Music Technologies

PHONE (952) 937-9611 or (800) 843-2066
FAX (952) 937-9760
6210 Bury Drive, Eden Prairie MN 55346-1718
Customer Service hours M-F, 8:30-5:00 Central Time
Please make sure to include all previous correspondence when replying, including any pertinent information such as registered serial number, account number, sales order reference number, etc.
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ottowest
An apple a day.



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   Posted 1/13/2004 1:14 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
smilewinkgrin YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! smilewinkgrin YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! smilewinkgrin YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES!


"Macintosh - We might not get everything right, but at least we knew the century was going to end."

"The Macintosh may only have 10% of the market, but it is clearly the top 10%."

-Douglas Adams-

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encephalon
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   Posted 1/13/2004 3:15 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Tom Holtz said...
Did you all remember to vote with your wallets? I'm still using Finale 2001. This company will not get any more of my money until they ship a product I want. I've made it clear I'm eager to spend on an OS X version of Finale. Perhaps the Mac community purchased a few too many copies of Finale 2002 and 2003.

Don't think for a moment that Coda is going to dump Mac. There's too much money to lose. If there wasn't lots of money at stake, the good folks who produce Sibelius wouldn't have busted their butts to get their OS X-native app out the door and into your hands. Remember Coda's hilarious "cross-grade" offer of a few years ago? Did we all take Coda up on that offer and switch to Windows? No, Coda is following the money, just like every other business. It's all about the money.

Why is Coda still developing for OS 9? Money. Are you angry about no OS X version yet? Did you pay for a Finale 2003 upgrade that was OS 9-only? You just gave Coda 99 or 129 more reasons to schlep on OS X software. Oops.


It's not as simple as that for those of us who collaborate with other Finale users. Built in to the upgrades is non-backward compatibility. As soon as one of my collegues upgrades, we all have to in order to share files. This is a travesty, and I hope it will be solved with the new XML music format. Coda will most likely get my $$ for this upgrade, just so I can have access to all my existing thousands of scores from my non-Classic Mac. But if they want any more of my $$ they better start making the upgrades worthwhile, because I'm still switching to Sibelius after this whole debaucle.

encephalon
Lush Music

Post Edited (encephalon) : 1/13/2004 7:17:37 PM GMT

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JUNE_PANIC
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   Posted 1/13/2004 8:47 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Tom Holtz said...
Did you all remember to vote with your wallets? I'm still using Finale 2001. This company will not get any more of my money until they ship a product I want. I've made it clear I'm eager to spend on an OS X version of Finale. Perhaps the Mac community purchased a few too many copies of Finale 2002 and 2003.

Don't think for a moment that Coda is going to dump Mac. There's too much money to lose. If there wasn't lots of money at stake, the good folks who produce Sibelius wouldn't have busted their butts to get their OS X-native app out the door and into your hands. Remember Coda's hilarious "cross-grade" offer of a few years ago? Did we all take Coda up on that offer and switch to Windows? No, Coda is following the money, just like every other business. It's all about the money.

Why is Coda still developing for OS 9? Money. Are you angry about no OS X version yet? Did you pay for a Finale 2003 upgrade that was OS 9-only? You just gave Coda 99 or 129 more reasons to schlep on OS X software. Oops.
Wow!  That just makes so much sense!
 
How dare Coda focus on the demands of its largest user-base first?  What kind of software company would do something like that?  I tell you, certainly not Sibelius.  It’s not fair that everyone who pays the same amount of money towards keeping Coda in business gets an equal say in what they should be working on.  PLEASE!!!
 
And the cross-grade offer, of course!!!  I cannot believe that they would actually offer us a $50 upgrade instead of charging us the full price of $600.  Those money-hungry jerks!  So that must mean when I bought my Windows version of Finale and they said I could get the Mac version for only $50, they were actually trying to get me to switch over to Mac.  Will they ever quit?rolleyes  
Fight the Power!
 
Greg
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BobRock
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   Posted 1/13/2004 9:56 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Great, Greg, thank you.

Now go back and restart your PC a few times.

JUNE_PANIC said...
Tom Holtz said...

Did you all remember to vote with your wallets? I'm still using Finale 2001. This company will not get any more of my money until they ship a product I want. I've made it clear I'm eager to spend on an OS X version of Finale. Perhaps the Mac community purchased a few too many copies of Finale 2002 and 2003.

Don't think for a moment that Coda is going to dump Mac. There's too much money to lose. If there wasn't lots of money at stake, the good folks who produce Sibelius wouldn't have busted their butts to get their OS X-native app out the door and into your hands. Remember Coda's hilarious "cross-grade" offer of a few years ago? Did we all take Coda up on that offer and switch to Windows? No, Coda is following the money, just like every other business. It's all about the money.

Why is Coda still developing for OS 9? Money. Are you angry about no OS X version yet? Did you pay for a Finale 2003 upgrade that was OS 9-only? You just gave Coda 99 or 129 more reasons to schlep on OS X software. Oops.

Wow!<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> That just makes so much sense!

<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p> </o:p>

How dare Coda focus on the demands of its largest user-base first?<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> What kind of software company would do something like that?<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> I tell you, certainly not Sibelius.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> It’s not fair that everyone who pays the same amount of money towards keeping Coda in business gets an equal say in what they should be working on.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> PLEASE!!!

<o:p> </o:p>

And the cross-grade offer, of course!!!<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> I cannot believe that they would actually offer us a $50 upgrade instead of charging us the full price of $600.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> Those money-hungry jerks!<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> So that must mean when I bought my Windows version of Finale and they said I could get the Mac version for only $50, they were actually trying to get me to switch over to Mac.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> Will they ever quit? rolleyes <o:p> </o:p>

Fight the Power!



Greg
smurf smurf
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Tom Holtz
not THAT Tom Holtz...



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   Posted 1/13/2004 11:30 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
encephalon said...
It's not as simple as that for those of us who collaborate with other Finale users. Built in to the upgrades is non-backward compatibility. As soon as one of my collegues upgrades, we all have to in order to share files. This is a travesty, and I hope it will be solved with the new XML music format. Coda will most likely get my $$ for this upgrade, just so I can have access to all my existing thousands of scores from my non-Classic Mac. But if they want any more of my $$ they better start making the upgrades worthwhile, because I'm still switching to Sibelius after this whole debaucle.

encephalon
Lush Music


I, fortunately, don't have to trade files very often, so I've been able to dodge that roadblock. I'll probably need to get Sibelius if too many more of my colleagues make the switch. You're right, built-in non-backward compatibility is a travesty, since paying for upgrades is unavoidable if collaboration is integral to your work.

Unfortunately, it also provides Coda with a little extra dressing for the bottom line when whole groups of Finale users upgrade at the same time instead of just the few who want or need the new features. Money talks, backward compatibility walks. I don't know anything about the new XML music format, but I'm positive that this years' Finale won't open next years' files, whether they're XML or not. I hope I'm wrong.

We'll know soon enough, apparently. Let's see what the gang is saying on the 17th and 18th.

-TH
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