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ludwigtheman
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   Posted 1/24/2004 1:27 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Congrats to Coda for finally coming through. No doubt there a few programmers going home at night with a few less things on their mind.

I feel like I can speak for fellow Finale/Mac users when I say I am thankful to Coda for their hard work. Initial impressions of Finale OS X seem to indicate it is a well-coded product that delivers on a Coda tradition of excellence.

That being said, a delay of the kind experienced over the past two years is not one easily forgotten. The question that will in the end prove crucial for me is whether or not the OS X saga was a blip in Coda's support of the Mac platform, or a symptomatic problem that will repeat itself time and time again. Insufficient programming resources, lack of priority, or whatever confluence of factors that caused the problem will only result in more problems if they are not remedied.

In the seemingly endless wait, many of my Mac friends deserted Finale for its composer-named competitor. Here's hoping that a stronger dedication to the Mac platform by Coda will make them want to come back.

nja- highly hopeful for good things to come
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BMillwood
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   Posted 1/24/2004 9:40 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Somebody said...
In the seemingly endless wait, many of my Mac friends deserted Finale for its composer-named competitor. Here's hoping that a stronger dedication to the Mac platform by Coda will make them want to come back.


Nope, not me. It became apparent several months back where MakeMusic's priorities were, and it certainly is not with the Mac platform. My guess is that this is the last major update of Finale for the Mac platform. Certainly, I think we can consider it likely that the next time Apple does a major upgrade of the system software, that you will all receive a tearful "Dear John" letter, telling you that they simply don't have the time or resources to update the software. Finale is, in my opinion, the best notation software out there, but it is just too risky to stay with it. Better to go with a product that shows a true interest in the Mac platform. Although Sibelius is not as good as Finale, they will eventually make the revisions necessary to surpass it.

-Bill
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Sebastian Huydts
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   Posted 1/24/2004 10:53 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Dear Bill,

It is one thing to be grumpy or even upset about a delay in a much needed software update, or to be critical of the nature of the update. I doubt that marking a program "too risky to stay with it" is going to be helpful in future upgrades or, in case you intended this, might persuade the people in charge of MakeMusic to do the opposite of what you fear. May I suggest that you limit your use of this forum to point out the items in need of improvement in Finale 200x, ask your questions, offer advice and help to others, or, alternatively, switch to and work in peace with the alternative software of your choice and leave your gloomy and highly hypothetical scenarios out of this forum. They are irrelevant to the users and makers of this program.

Sebastian Huydts
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BobRock
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   Posted 1/24/2004 11:00 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Sebastian Huydts said...
Dear Bill,

It is one thing to be grumpy or even upset about a delay in a much needed software update, or to be critical of the nature of the update. I doubt that marking a program "too risky to stay with it" is going to be helpful in future upgrades or, in case you intended this, might persuade the people in charge of MakeMusic to do the opposite of what you fear. May I suggest that you limit your use of this forum to point out the items in need of improvement in Finale 200x, ask your questions, offer advice and help to others, or, alternatively, switch to and work in peace with the alternative software of your choice and leave your gloomy and highly hypothetical scenarios out of this forum. They are irrelevant to the users and makers of this program.

Sebastian Huydts


Hi Sebastian,

while I personally would like to see Finale flourish on the Mac, may I remind you that this is a MM's forum, and they obviously are not scared of posts like Bill's otherwise they wouldn't only encourage (self) censorship (like yourself), but rather would very easily implement it.

Bob smurf
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Sebastian Huydts
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   Posted 1/24/2004 11:26 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Hi Bob,

You are right of course—I have grown so tired of all this kvetching that I somewhat hastily reacted to the latest of this seemingly incessant flood of negativity that MM's delay caused. In addition, I should not have spoken for other users (or the makers) in the last sentence of my reply.
Joining ludwigtheman in his assessment of 2004, and secretely wishing the Mac and MM eternal life and expressing the hope that I may be getting timely MAC upgrades from now until the time I take the one-way trip.

Cheers,

Sebastian Huydts
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BMillwood
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   Posted 1/24/2004 12:15 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Somebody said...
Dear Bill,

May I suggest that you limit your use of this forum to point out the items in need of improvement in Finale 200x, ask your questions, offer advice and help to others, or, alternatively, switch to and work in peace with the alternative software of your choice and leave your gloomy and highly hypothetical scenarios out of this forum. They are irrelevant to the users and makers of this program.

Sebastian Huydts


Sebastian:

You are absolutely right - we should only be using this forum to ask questions and make comments that will improve the software.

Question: MakeMusic, when are you actually going to do something that inspires confidence in the future of your product for the Macintosh platform? Taking 2 to 3 years to develop an OSX version of your software was UNACCEPTABLE. It does not bode well for the future.

(Perhaps, my dear Sebastian, you believe we should be caressing MakeMusic, and thanking them for finally doing what every other major software company managed to do eons ago. My comments and questions have been pointed reminders to MakeMusic that we had spent hundreds of dollars (in my case well over $1000) for this software over the years. Let me remind you of that fact again - I have spent well over $1000 on a piece of software that finally could barely run on my machine, and struggled with it for ages, waiting for the promised OSX software to come out. If I am going to switch, I'm not going without making some noise about it.)

I mean no disrespect to Finale users, but I am TICKED OFF at all of this.

And so my question to MakeMusic is: What can you do or say to assure Mac Finale users that Finale for Mac is here to stay? (I might even return to the software if I had some assurances, and be an even nicer person. smilewinkgrin

-Bill
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BobRock
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   Posted 1/24/2004 12:59 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Speaking for myself: it is great they finally got into OSX, but now they have to do the "FAT" version, then figure out what to do with F2K5 for both platforms, get into free maintainance releases...the later ones especially important to keep the pro customers happy, and remain a premiere league....in old versions they came to 4 or 5 maintainance updates, in F2003 only one.
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ludwigtheman
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   Posted 1/24/2004 2:39 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
To be perfectly honest, it is a little surprising to me that they're actually taking such great pains in regards to OS 9. There comes a point where past systems should no longer supported allowing resources to be redirected into the most recent system versions.

I think the error is in #1- not realizing how many users have already made the OS X switch, and #2 not realizing how many will likely make the switch in the very near future.

If folks want to hang around in OS 9, more power. Finale 2003 works great and since OS 9 will no longer be updated, will continue to work great. But let's face it, in the back of most OS 9 users heads is the recognition that at some point, they're going to need to switch to OS X, likely in the near future. When they do, 2004 is ready and waiting.

It seems that there is almost a mistaken paradigm at Coda that has failed to give the OS X platform the credit it has always deserved. Perhaps it is why it is took them far too much time to complete their OS X port and why they are still bending over backwards to support a dying platform.

Post Edited (ludwigtheman) : 1/25/2004 7:30:10 PM GMT

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BMillwood
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   Posted 1/25/2004 12:50 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
ludwigtheman said...
It seems that there is almost a mistaken paradigm at Coda that has failed to give the OS X platform the credit it has always deserved. Perhaps it is why it is took them far too much time to complete their OS X port and why they are still bending over backwards to support an dying platform.


Yes, I agree with you 100%. I think that that has been the source of all of this mess. rolleyes
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Jim Coull
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   Posted 1/25/2004 3:31 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
"Perhaps it is why ... they are still bending over backwards to support an dying platform."

I cannot speak for the folks at MM, but I, for one, am glad that they are continuing to support OS9, dying or not. I will make the switch to OSX, but only when I have the time to do it without battling a deadline. As a teacher, that time will be in the summer months. Until then, I have to deal with sharing files with colleagues that are using 2004, so I need a version of 2004 that will run on my preferred OS which happens to be 9 at this time.

I got on the Finale bandwagon with version 1 back when most Macs came loaded with System 6. When Apple moved to System 7, I was faced with the same problem - switch systems during the school year when I had looming deadlines or wait until summer when I had time to learn the ins and outs of the new system. Back then I was grateful for the software companies like Coda that had a committment to the old as well as the new platforms. I, as are many other computer users, am not hooked on getting the newest big thing, whether it be hardware or software. I realize that OSX is not the newest big thing, but for me it is. I use QuarkXpress and Finale for about 90%+ of my computer usage. Finale for OSX was not available when this school year started and my copy of the OSX version of Quark did not arrive until too close to the beginning of school for me to feel comfortable starting the year with it. As a result, I saw no reason at all to move to OSX until both programs were OSX native AND I had time to learn the new system and software. BTW, I use the same rationale for changing platforms and prefered software. (I started on a PC with some engraving program that I can no longer recall the title of. After seeing the mighty Mac SE/30 with Finale v.1 at a music ed conference in February of that year, I ordered a similar setup and made the change during the following summer. That seems like a lifetime ago!!)

I will readily admit that I may take too cautious a view when it comes to upgrading, but I have yet to miss a deadline because I switched to a new system or software with a critical project on the line. Some of the misfortunes I have seen on these forums could have been avoided if others took a similar view.

As always, my ever so humble 2¢ worth.

Jiim Coull
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PeterKienle
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   Posted 1/25/2004 7:42 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
While I am thrilled about finally running Finale in OS X I think none of the added features are essential, IMHO.
OK, I haven't tried them all, simply because having used a certain workflow for many years makes things really
fast while at the same time incorporating new keystrokes or procedures just take a while.

I had (and still have) hope for FinaleScript. It looks like more could be done with it and the documentation is
pretty lame. Considering it's a plug-in this might mean if I'd be intelligent enough and had more time I could
do my own scripting language. But that they have included it at all is a good start.

Like most everybody here I agree that investing resources in releasing 2004 for OS 9 seems a bad move - unless it's
almost ready and only needs some finishing touches. Since 2004 seems to save 2003a compatible files there is no
backwards compatibility issue (the only annoying thing about that is that when I click on a Finale file in OS 9 it tries to
launch 2004 and when I do the same in OS X it tries to run Classic and 2003a - but working around that is no big deal).

Peter


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Jim Coull
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   Posted 1/25/2004 11:22 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
" Since 2004 seems to save 2003a compatible files there is no backwards compatibility issue..."

Are you saying that Finale 2004 is backwards compatible. I have not heard this anywhere else and any attempts I have made to open 2004 files on my computer have given me the dreaded "This file was saved in a later version of Finale.." error message.

JIm Coull
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