|
|
| MakeMusic Forum > Public Forums > Finale - Macintosh - FORUM HAS MOVED! > Double-staffed multi-measure rest? | Forum Quick Jump
|
 | 
Peter Thomsen
Registered Member
      
Date Joined Jun 2000
Total Posts : 8331
| Posted 10/20/2015 4:25 PM (GMT -5) |   | I do not know of a general solution that “at one fell swoop” will fix only all the double-staffed instruments without affecting the single-staffed instruments.
My guess is that you will have to edit each multimeasure rest individually:
Selection Tool.
Click the multimeasure rest to select it.
Edit menu > Multimeasure Rests > Edit…
(or use the context menu)
You end in the dialog box Multimeasure Rest.
Two ways:
1) (N. Grossingink):
Edit the MM Rest so that "Start Numbering at…" is a number larger than the rest’s value.
You'll have to use an Expression for the single number.
Set the positioning so that the expression is vertically centered between the staves, and horizontally "Center Over/Under Music".
2) (Zuill):
Use the Staff Tool to hide the MM rest in the upper staff.
In that way the MM number will only appear between the two staves.
You may have to adjust the number’s vertical position.
In the pane Shape, clear the MM rest shape’s shape number, and then click the button “Select…”.
Because the shape number was cleared, you get to the Shape Selection where you can duplicate the MM shape, and edit the duplicate so that the shape displays two H symbols.
Position the added H symbol so that it precisely appears in front of the upper staff.
Peter
Mac Finale, 2011c, 2012c & 2014d, Dolet 6.4 plug-in, Mac OS X 10.9.5, iMac Intel Core i7, 2.93 GHz, 16 GB RAM | | Back to Top | |
|
Motet
Isorhythmic
Date Joined Dec 2002
Total Posts : 12849
| Posted 10/20/2015 5:33 PM (GMT -5) | | | |
|
Zuill
"The Troll"
Date Joined Oct 2003
Total Posts : 29077
| Posted 10/20/2015 5:36 PM (GMT -5) | | I don't recall how easily the suggestion attributed to me is, but it seems burdensome now that I read it.
I am thinking just adjusting the number so that it centers between the staff is easiest. Then, create an expression of white space to mask the upper number. The only way this might not work is if it bumps into another staff in the score.
Another way is to make the vertical placement amount high enough to shoot it off the page. Then use an expression for the number.
Zuill
P.S.: In all honesty, N. Grossingink's suggestion is the easiest. Go with that.
"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
Finale 2002b, 2003a, 2004b, 2005b, Win XP SP3, 2011b Win 7 64bit, 2012a Bought and Paid For (Hopefully soon 2012b with some of the MAJOR BUGS fixed--well, now with 2012b and some of the bugs are fixed) 2012c, with some bug fixes. 2014c at present. Now 2014d.
Favorite Forum quote: "Please, everybody, IGNORE THE TROLL!" Post Edited (Zuill) : 10/20/2015 4:48:55 PM (GMT-5) | | Back to Top | |
|
John Ruggero
Registered Member
Date Joined Mar 2000
Total Posts : 820
| Posted 10/20/2015 10:03 PM (GMT -5) | | Thank you, gentlemen, for your help. That is an elegant work-around, but as you well realize, not quite satisfactory from the practical point of view.
Please forgive me, MakeMusic, but I don't understand why the standard multi-meaure rest for double-staffing is a work-around. Could it be because there is no way to keep an expression centered between two staves in Finale?
Mac mini (OS 10.8.5) with dual monitors, Finale 2014d (Finale 2011 as a backup) with GPO 4
Kurzweil Mark 5 with M-Audio Midisport 2 x 2, Adobe InDesign CS4 SmartScore X Pro, JW Plug-ins
www.cantilenapress.com
The better the composer, the better the notation. | | Back to Top | |
|
RMK
Registered Member
Date Joined Mar 1999
Total Posts : 187
| Posted 10/21/2015 2:58 PM (GMT -5) | | (very O/T)
The better the composer, the better the notation.
-------------------------------------------------------
So, I'm guessing Charles Ives is not a favorite of yours?
;>) | | Back to Top | |
|
John Ruggero
Registered Member
Date Joined Mar 2000
Total Posts : 820
| Posted 10/21/2015 5:37 PM (GMT -5) | | To me, Ives is more of an enigma than a favorite, but he was creative in his use of musical notation to express what he wanted, and for that he gets an A in my book. However, I've never had an opportunity to study his manuscripts and judge only from his published music like 114 Songs and the Piano Sonatas.
I guess my gut feeling is that Ives was a stunted, fragmented genius who didn't come close to his potential, but I haven't listened to his music in a while. I think that the US has had two composers who could have matched the level of the very greatest: Charles Ives and George Gershwin. One was born too early and the other died too early. Maybe we will get it right next time.
What do you think, RMK?
Mac mini (OS 10.8.5) with dual monitors, Finale 2014d (Finale 2011 as a backup) with GPO 4
Kurzweil Mark 5 with M-Audio Midisport 2 x 2, Adobe InDesign CS4 SmartScore X Pro, JW Plug-ins
www.cantilenapress.com
The better the composer, the better the notation. | | Back to Top | |
|
Motet
Isorhythmic
Date Joined Dec 2002
Total Posts : 12849
| Posted 10/21/2015 11:59 PM (GMT -5) | | | |
|
Charles Lawrence
Registered Member
Date Joined Dec 2009
Total Posts : 3638
| Posted 10/22/2015 11:22 AM (GMT -5) | | |
John, et al.,
I am almost through working out the details of a JW Lua script that will accomplish this task. It will be based on N.'s, Motet's, and Andreo's suggestions. To be complete, there are several additional issues that have to be considered. Among them are the font and size to be used for the expression. I will assume TNR 18 B. Motet's idea needs to be expanded to include a center justification. Also the span between staves of the relevant system must be considered in order to center the expression number between the staves, as it may be that you have increased/decreased it from the default. The document can only have a double stave, and you must select the previously created MMR stack. A new expression category would be nice, but alas, JW Lua cannot create a new category due to restrictions imposed by MM in the Plug-in Development Kit (PDK), so I will use the Miscellaneous category. If anyone has any ideas to be considered/included in the script, please post them here, or PM or email me. As soon as I have debugged the script and added a nice GUI, I will post it here. Stand by.
BTW: Motet, I don't think you mentioned the fact that printing will bring back the hidden original numbers unless the option is unchecked as Andreo correctly points out. My script will perform this task, so you won't have to worry about it.
"Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about!"
Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-5930K CPU with 6 dual core processors @ 3.50 GHz (12 threads)
32 GB RAM
Realtek High Definition on board audio
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 980 GPU with 4GB ram
512 GB SSD system disk
Four 4TB and one 1TB internal SATA HD's
Microsoft Windows 8.1 Professional with Media Center x64 Edition, (06.03.9600.00)
Finale versions: 2011b.r2, 2012c.r13, 2014d.v5030
GPO4.02
Cakewalk SONAR X3
"There is a world of difference between a person who has a big problem and a person who makes a problem big." – John Maxwell
Post Edited (Charles Lawrence) : 10/22/2015 10:31:09 AM (GMT-5) | | Back to Top | |
|
John Ruggero
Registered Member
Date Joined Mar 2000
Total Posts : 820
| Posted 10/22/2015 1:03 PM (GMT -5) | | loweredsixth, these days, one makes a statement about what is standard with some trepidation. What one has seen for over 50 years in countless parts from a least a century, has personally copied in works from major American composers, and makes total sense on the face of it, is suddenly in doubt. Sometimes this is because a well-known notation product like Finale can't cope with the standard, and everyone, including The Authorities just gives up on what is correct. That may have happened with the multi-measure double-staffed rest.
All I can say is that I have never seen anything like what Finale produces for double-staffed multi-measure rest in the parts of the standard orchestral literature or piano solo literature. Browse around at IMSLP and you will see what has been done, and for a good reason: the large empty space between the staves of a double staffed part is a golden opportunity for one large very visible number.
I gave an example at the top by R. Strauss. Here are others by various composers:
http://javanese.imslp.info/files/imglnks/usimg/1/11/IMSLP37526-PMLP09904-Tchaikovsky-Op20.Harp.pdf
http://imslp.nl/imglnks/usimg/d/dd/IMSLP37679-PMLP38072-Debussy-Images1.Gigues.Harp.pdf
http://petrucci.mus.auth.gr/imglnks/usimg/c/c3/IMSLP36518-PMLP21398-Faure-Requiem.Harp.pdf
onquest.imslp.info/files/imglnks/usimg/a/a3/IMSLP40466-PMLP11297-Brahms-Op045.Harp.pdf
http://burrito.whatbox.ca:15263/imglnks/usimg/2/24/IMSLP54577-PMLP45445-Bartok-Op03.Harp.pdf
http://petrucci.mus.auth.gr/imglnks/usimg/1/12/IMSLP235873-SIBLEY1802.20435.ff01-39087015867973harp.pdf
http://imslp.nl/imglnks/usimg/8/8e/IMSLP213857-PMLP51151-G._Verdi_-_Nabucco_Harps_1__2.pdf
Mac mini (OS 10.8.5) with dual monitors, Finale 2014d (Finale 2011 as a backup) with GPO 4
Kurzweil Mark 5 with M-Audio Midisport 2 x 2, Adobe InDesign CS4 SmartScore X Pro, JW Plug-ins
www.cantilenapress.com
The better the composer, the better the notation. | | Back to Top | |
|
Charles Lawrence
Registered Member
Date Joined Dec 2009
Total Posts : 3638
| Posted 10/22/2015 2:04 PM (GMT -5) | | John, I'll try to answer as best I can.
>> Does MM incorporate these scripts? This should be the default for this situation.
I don't know, but I don't think so as a matter of course. I think that some of the user developed stuff has been used as a basis for MM plug-ins if it is deemed to be of universal value.
>>If you are successful with the vertical centering, would your script or a development of it be applicable to other expressions like dynamics or even smart shapes like hairpins in a two staff part?
Probably. I'll have to look into it with those goals in mind.
>>I am not sure what selecting "from a previously created MMR stack" means. That each rest will be converted separately?
All MMRs that are to be processed into the "double staff MMR" must have been created outside the script. You can process only one MMR at a time. You must select the MMR you want to process with the Select Tool. Double clicking on the MMR in either staff will select the stack, although it won't matter which staff is selected, either or both. Maybe a useful option would be to automatically process all MMRs found in the document.
One caveat that I see is that if you need to reorder the two staves after processing the MMR, that the number will move with the top staff. Expressions are always measure attached, not page attached. You will need to either reposition the number manually, or remove the expression and re-run the script.
"Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about!"
Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-5930K CPU with 6 dual core processors @ 3.50 GHz (12 threads)
32 GB RAM
Realtek High Definition on board audio
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 980 GPU with 4GB ram
512 GB SSD system disk
Four 4TB and one 1TB internal SATA HD's
Microsoft Windows 8.1 Professional with Media Center x64 Edition, (06.03.9600.00)
Finale versions: 2011b.r2, 2012c.r13, 2014d.v5030
GPO4.02
Cakewalk SONAR X3
"There is a world of difference between a person who has a big problem and a person who makes a problem big." – John Maxwell
| | Back to Top | |
|
Flint
silly bear
Date Joined Oct 2006
Total Posts : 3151
| Posted 10/22/2015 4:30 PM (GMT -5) | | loweredsixth said...
Thanks. I just find it odd that Gould and Read do not mention this at all, and especially Gould was VERY exhaustive in the subject of notation.
Indeed, I just checked my copy, and in the Keyboard section and the Harp section, there is only one single multimeasure rest shown (pg. 358, Harp). It's between the staves but not centered, as that space is also displaying a pedal change.
Seems like a rather uncharacteristic oversight...
woodwind specialist and doubler - Finale 2014d using Speedy Entry - no capslock, GPO 4 Full, Garritan Jazz & Big Band 3, Garritan Concert and Marching Band 2, Windows 8 64-bit, 12GB RAM
If the composer says in effect to the performer: "I do not care whether you perform my music or not," we cannot argue the matter. But if he indicates: "I want you to perform and respond to this music," then his fundamental duty is to write his music so that it is accessible to interpretation. When the performer cannot approach the composer's meaning because of capriciously obscure notation, he may in effect say to the composer: "Why should I bother to puzzle out your music?" - Gardner Read | | Back to Top | |
|
John Ruggero
Registered Member
Date Joined Mar 2000
Total Posts : 820
| Posted 10/22/2015 5:49 PM (GMT -5) | | Charles Lawrence, Thank you for your answers. I actually didn't mean a plug-in, but the main event! What you are developing in terms of vertically centering expressions would seem to have deeper implications than one sees in a plug-in, as wonderful as plug-ins are.
Automatic processing of all the MMR rests would, of course, be quite desirable. It is hard to imagine when the staves would ever be reversed, but programmers have to think of all possibilities, I know. My wife was one.
Flint, I am embarrassed to say that I still don't have the Gould, so thanks for checking. As exhaustive as her book must be, oversights happen. I understand that there are other aspects of notation that she doesn't address, like beam angles.
loweredsixth, yes, it is odd that she doesn't go into it. Could she be avoiding the issue because it is so awkward to accomplish in Finale?
Can Sibelius do it?
Mac mini (OS 10.8.5) with dual monitors, Finale 2014d (Finale 2011 as a backup) with GPO 4
Kurzweil Mark 5 with M-Audio Midisport 2 x 2, Adobe InDesign CS4 SmartScore X Pro, JW Plug-ins
www.cantilenapress.com
The better the composer, the better the notation. | | Back to Top | |
|
Charles Lawrence
Registered Member
Date Joined Dec 2009
Total Posts : 3638
| Posted 10/27/2015 6:32 PM (GMT -5) | | | As promised, please find attached the first cut at a JW Lua script that will process double staff MMRs. I tried to make it idiot proof, but intuitive. If you find any problems with it, please post them here, email me or send a PM.
Enjoy! 
"Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about!"
Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-5930K CPU with 6 dual core processors @ 3.50 GHz (12 threads)
32 GB RAM
Realtek High Definition on board audio
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 980 GPU with 4GB ram
512 GB SSD system disk
Four 4TB and one 1TB internal SATA HD's
Microsoft Windows 8.1 Professional with Media Center x64 Edition, (06.03.9600.00)
Finale versions: 2011b.r2, 2012c.r13, 2014d.v5030
GPO4.02
Cakewalk SONAR X3
"There is a world of difference between a person who has a big problem and a person who makes a problem big." – John Maxwell
File Attachment : DoubleStaffMMR.lua 8KB (application/octet-stream) This file has been downloaded 425 time(s). | | Back to Top | |
|
Zuill
"The Troll"
Date Joined Oct 2003
Total Posts : 29077
| Posted 10/27/2015 9:43 PM (GMT -5) | | Sweet. Thank you.
Zuill
"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
Finale 2002b, 2003a, 2004b, 2005b, Win XP SP3, 2011b Win 7 64bit, 2012a Bought and Paid For (Hopefully soon 2012b with some of the MAJOR BUGS fixed--well, now with 2012b and some of the bugs are fixed) 2012c, with some bug fixes. 2014c at present. Now 2014d.
Favorite Forum quote: "Please, everybody, IGNORE THE TROLL!" | | Back to Top | |
|
Charles Lawrence
Registered Member
Date Joined Dec 2009
Total Posts : 3638
| Posted 10/27/2015 10:13 PM (GMT -5) | | A compliment coming from "The Troll" really is sweet. Thanks. Check it out thoroughly.
"Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about!"
Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-5930K CPU with 6 dual core processors @ 3.50 GHz (12 threads)
32 GB RAM
Realtek High Definition on board audio
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 980 GPU with 4GB ram
512 GB SSD system disk
Four 4TB and one 1TB internal SATA HD's
Microsoft Windows 8.1 Professional with Media Center x64 Edition, (06.03.9600.00)
Finale versions: 2011b.r2, 2012c.r13, 2014d.v5030
GPO4.02
Cakewalk SONAR X3
"There is a world of difference between a person who has a big problem and a person who makes a problem big." – John Maxwell
| | Back to Top | |
|
Zuill
"The Troll"
Date Joined Oct 2003
Total Posts : 29077
| Posted 10/27/2015 11:52 PM (GMT -5) | | I don't have much experience with Lua. I gave up on Finalescript ages ago when it continually crashed my system.
Zuill
"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
Finale 2002b, 2003a, 2004b, 2005b, Win XP SP3, 2011b Win 7 64bit, 2012a Bought and Paid For (Hopefully soon 2012b with some of the MAJOR BUGS fixed--well, now with 2012b and some of the bugs are fixed) 2012c, with some bug fixes. 2014c at present. Now 2014d.
Favorite Forum quote: "Please, everybody, IGNORE THE TROLL!" | | Back to Top | |
| 64 posts in this thread.
Viewing Page : 1 2 3 |
| Forum Information | Currently it is Sunday, March 26, 2023 8:59 PM (GMT -5)
There are a total of 403,820 posts in 58,165 threads.
In the last 3 days there were 0 new threads and 0 reply posts. View Active Threads
|
Forum powered by dotNetBB v2.42EC SP3
dotNetBB © 2000-2023 |
|
|