Finale SmartMusic
  Home | Log In | Register | Search | Help
   
MakeMusic Forum > Public Forums > Finale - Macintosh - FORUM HAS MOVED! > Smart quotes  Forum Quick Jump
 
You cannot post new topics in this forum. You cannot reply to topics in this forum. Printable Version
42 posts in this thread.
Viewing Page :
 1  2 
[ << Previous Thread | Next Thread >> | Show Newest Post First ]

Bill Spencer
Registered Member



Email Address Not AvailablePersonal Homepage Not AvailableSend a Private Message to Bill SpencerAIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined Sep 2006
Total Posts : 342
 
   Posted 12/5/2011 9:24 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Couldn't you search for | "| (space followed by straight quote) and replace with space followed by left curly, then search for |" | (straight quote followed by space) and replace with right curly followed by space?


MacBook Core 2 Duo 2.4 GHz 4GB Ram OS 10.6.6
G4 Dual Mirror Door 1.25 GHz 2GB RAM OS 10.4
Finale 2011
MOTU DP 6
Kurzweil PC3
Mini Moog
Shiny Black Shoes
Tuxedo

Back to Top

Bill Stevens
Registered Member

Email Address Not AvailablePersonal Homepage Not AvailableSend a Private Message to Bill StevensAIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined Jun 2000
Total Posts : 5408
 
   Posted 12/5/2011 10:06 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
That would work most of the time, but if a quote began a lyric it wouldn't, and if you had a comma inside the end quote or a period outside the end quote it wouldn't work.

Bill


Finale 2012 (all versions since 1.0)
Staff Paper and #2 Pencil with eraser
OS 10.7 Lion

Back to Top

Dr. Wiggy
Early music: modern methods



Email Address Not AvailablePersonal Homepage Not AvailableSend a Private Message to Dr. WiggyAIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined Jun 2006
Total Posts : 12628
 
   Posted 12/6/2011 3:00 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
And don't forget apostrophes in words (often elided vowels in Italian are contracted, for instance).


Finale 2012, 2Ghz iMac; 2Ghz MacBook, 10.7.2
Edirol FA-66; M-Audio Oxygen 61; Yamaha PSR-410
Ancient Groove Music
www.ancientgroove.co.uk

Back to Top

Bill Spencer
Registered Member



Email Address Not AvailablePersonal Homepage Not AvailableSend a Private Message to Bill SpencerAIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined Sep 2006
Total Posts : 342
 
   Posted 12/6/2011 4:28 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Not sure why a comma before the end quote would be a problem (and why would the comma be before the closing quote?), and apostrophes aren't the same as quotes. Does Finale (like Word) show you each "found" item, then let you chose whether or not to replace before actually replacing? If not, I guess those issues are significant.


MacBook Core 2 Duo 2.4 GHz 4GB Ram OS 10.6.6
G4 Dual Mirror Door 1.25 GHz 2GB RAM OS 10.4
Finale 2011
MOTU DP 6
Kurzweil PC3
Mini Moog
Shiny Black Shoes
Tuxedo

Back to Top

Dr. Wiggy
Early music: modern methods



Email Address Not AvailablePersonal Homepage Not AvailableSend a Private Message to Dr. WiggyAIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined Jun 2006
Total Posts : 12628
 
   Posted 12/6/2011 5:01 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Bill Spencer said...
apostrophes aren't the same as quotes.

Please describe the difference. Note that this forum, like Finale, can't display curly apostrophes, and uses the straight single quote character. If you want "smart" quotes, this usually also means curly apostrophes.


Finale 2012, 2Ghz iMac; 2Ghz MacBook, 10.7.2
Edirol FA-66; M-Audio Oxygen 61; Yamaha PSR-410
Ancient Groove Music
www.ancientgroove.co.uk

Back to Top

Peter Thomsen
Registered Member

Click to send Peter Thomsen email.Personal Homepage Not AvailableSend a Private Message to Peter ThomsenAIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined Jun 2000
Total Posts : 8331
 
   Posted 12/6/2011 7:15 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Wiggy said...
Bill Spencer said...
apostrophes aren't the same as quotes.

Please describe the difference. Note that this forum, like Finale, can't display curly apostrophes, and uses the straight single quote character. If you want "smart" quotes, this usually also means curly apostrophes.

I'm confused.
I thought that the straight characters ' and " (= #39 and #34) meant feet and inches, while the single and double curly quote characters were ‘ ’ (= #212 and #213) and “ ” (= #210 and #211) respectively.

It sounds like I was wrong, since both this forum and Finale can display them.

Would somebody please enlighten me?

Peter


Mac Finale, 2011c & 2012, Dolet 6 plug-in, Mac OS X 10.6.8, iMac Intel Core i7, 2.93 GHz, 16 GB RAM

Back to Top

Bill Stevens
Registered Member

Email Address Not AvailablePersonal Homepage Not AvailableSend a Private Message to Bill StevensAIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined Jun 2000
Total Posts : 5408
 
   Posted 12/6/2011 7:22 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Wiggy,

Maybe I misunderstand you, but Finale can make curly apostrophes with shift-option-]. I can also make them here so I can do the plurals so common in farmers’ markets around here: apple’s and orange’s. Maybe they don't come through correctly on your end.

Bill


Finale 2012 (all versions since 1.0)
Staff Paper and #2 Pencil with eraser
OS 10.7 Lion

Back to Top

HBegun
Registered Member

Email Address Not AvailablePersonal Homepage Not AvailableSend a Private Message to HBegunAIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined Jan 1999
Total Posts : 1149
 
   Posted 12/7/2011 1:18 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I use a Finalescript to convert straight quotes to American-style typographic ones:

search "'" replace with ""

search "<34>" replace with ""

search "" replace with ""

search "“<13>" replace with "”<13>"

search "“-" replace with "”-"

search "“." replace with "”."

search "“)" replace with "”)"

[Note: <34> and <13> are Windows ASCII codes for the straight double-quote and carriage return respectively. Mac users will need to substitute the appropriate characters.]

The script changes all single quote marks (') to curly apostrophes (’). This is intentional on my part. I rarely need nested quotes but frequently have words that start with an apostrophe (’cause, ’em, etc.)

Next it changes all straight double-quote marks (") to curly open-quote marks (“), then searches for those that are followed by a space, carriage return, and a few punctuation marks and changes them to curly close-quote marks (”). The punctuation marks I included cover my needs but additional lines can be added if needed.

One thing this can't do is find and convert close-quote marks that are the last character in a lyric or other text string so those will have to be fixed manually. Despite this limitation, the script is quite effective and by assigning it a keyboard shortcut it's easily run.


Howard Begun
Finale 2012
Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit
Intel Core Duo E8400, 3.0 GHz, 6 GB RAM

Back to Top

Dr. Wiggy
Early music: modern methods



Email Address Not AvailablePersonal Homepage Not AvailableSend a Private Message to Dr. WiggyAIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined Jun 2006
Total Posts : 12628
 
   Posted 12/7/2011 1:30 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Bill Stevens said...
Maybe I misunderstand you, but Finale can make curly apostrophes with shift-option-]. I can also make them here so I can do the plurals so common in farmers’ markets around here: apple’s and orange’s. Maybe they don't come through correctly on your end.

Yes, sorry: Finale CAN do curly apostrophes, but chooses not to by default. I was making that point that anything which "smartens" quotes will need to consider the special case of apostrophes too.


Finale 2012, 2Ghz iMac; 2Ghz MacBook, 10.7.2
Edirol FA-66; M-Audio Oxygen 61; Yamaha PSR-410
Ancient Groove Music
www.ancientgroove.co.uk

Back to Top

Bill Stevens
Registered Member

Email Address Not AvailablePersonal Homepage Not AvailableSend a Private Message to Bill StevensAIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined Jun 2000
Total Posts : 5408
 
   Posted 12/7/2011 3:04 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Howard,

Thanks a million for that Finalescript.

Bill


Finale 2012 (all versions since 1.0)
Staff Paper and #2 Pencil with eraser
OS 10.7 Lion

Back to Top

David Ward
Registered Member



Email Address Not AvailableClick to visit David Ward's website.Send a Private Message to David WardAIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined Aug 2009
Total Posts : 2834
 
   Posted 12/7/2011 4:59 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Doesn’t a ‘curly’ apostrophe require different spacing from a curly quote in many fonts?

Evidently this is not the case with font used by the forum, but a real curved curly quote takes up more horizontal space that is usual for a curly apostrophe. One could get that right in Finale via Tracking from the Text menu, but it might be a little fiddly.


David Ward
www.composers-uk.com/davidward

Finale 2010b
Mac 10.6.8
full TGTools

Back to Top

David Ward
Registered Member



Email Address Not AvailableClick to visit David Ward's website.Send a Private Message to David WardAIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined Aug 2009
Total Posts : 2834
 
   Posted 12/7/2011 5:13 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
The screen shot shows what I mean (done in Pages with Times font). The first Don’t has an apostrophe, the second has a quotation mark.


David Ward
www.composers-uk.com/davidward

Finale 2010b
Mac 10.6.8
full TGTools


Image Attachment :
Image Preview
Screen shot 2011-12-07 at 22.09.20.png
  5KB (image/png)
This image has been viewed 187 time(s).
Back to Top

rpmseattle
Registered Member

Email Address Not AvailablePersonal Homepage Not AvailableSend a Private Message to rpmseattleAIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined Nov 2006
Total Posts : 419
 
   Posted 8/6/2013 5:05 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Thanks for sharing your script, Howard!

For anyone interested, I've posted a modified version of Howard's script which addresses this issue:

"One thing this can't do is find and convert close-quote marks that are the last character in a lyric or other text string so those will have to be fixed manually."

You can copy and paste the modified script text from my blog post, if interested:

www.rpmseattle.com/of_note/?p=6192

This modified script still doesn't address situations like nested quotes and the like but should work well for general case quotes in text blocks, expressions, and lyrics.

~ robert


Finale 2012, 2011 | Mac Pro 8 Core Xeon | OSX 10.6.x
www.musicprep.com/makemusic
www.rpmseattle.com/of_note/category/finale/

Post Edited (rpmseattle) : 8/8/2013 5:19:28 PM (GMT-5)

Back to Top

HBegun
Registered Member

Email Address Not AvailablePersonal Homepage Not AvailableSend a Private Message to HBegunAIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined Jan 1999
Total Posts : 1149
 
   Posted 8/8/2013 12:33 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Hi Robert, thanks for including my script on your website. I hope others will find it useful.
 
I've done a little tweaking since I posted it here. An unanticipated side effect of the script is that it also changes caesura (railroad track) markings since those are mapped to the straight double quote slot. I had to add a few lines to restore them:
search "“" [Maestro] replace with "<34>"
search "“" [Maestro Wide] replace with "<34>"
search "“" [Jazz] replace with "<34>"
search "“" [Broadway Copyist] replace with "<34>"
These lines go at the end of the script. Additional ones may need to be added for other music fonts.
 
I also like that you found a solution for the "last character" issue. I'll have to give that a try. I've been using a workaround. When a string ends with a double quote mark, I put in two of them like this:
"text in quotes""
I inserted a new line to the script in the second position (the placement is important):
search "<34><34>" replace with "”"
While not a solution, it's been an easy-to-use workaround.
 

One other observation: your website uses curly quotes throughout. This may cause some problems if the script is copied from the site and pasted into the script editor since many of those need to be the straight variety. For example, the first line reads:
search “‘” replace with “’”
All but one of those marks need to be straight for the script to work:
search "'" replace with "’"
You'll need to go through the whole script to fix these up but it shouldn't be too hard using a word processor with find and replace.
 
Finally, there's no need to use <39> for the straight single quote (though there's no harm in it either). The reason I used <34> for the double quote mark is that the symbol can't be used within a string in Finalescript because it defines the start and end of that string.


Howard Begun
Finale 2012
Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit
Intel Core Duo E8400, 3.0 GHz, 6 GB RAM

Back to Top

rpmseattle
Registered Member

Email Address Not AvailablePersonal Homepage Not AvailableSend a Private Message to rpmseattleAIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined Nov 2006
Total Posts : 419
 
   Posted 8/8/2013 2:32 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Thanks, Howard for your report and additional info.

Looks like Wordpress automatically creates smart quotes on the fly in a published page. The quotes are all displaying correctly in the Wordpress editor (and in my Finalescript).

I was able to use the CODE tags in Wordpress to encase the Finalescript text, which seems to have corrected the problem with the blog page display. However, after seeing how quotes are getting changed dynamically, I have posted two downloadable text files, so readers can either copy-and-paste into a new Finalescrip, or they can just drop the actual script file into the Finalescript folder (for those that know where to find it).

Thank you for the caesura fix as well. I have added that. In my case, I added it following the first part of your original script in my modified version, so it appears before all of the "last character" stuff. Let me know if everything works successfully for you.

~robert

PS - The <39> for the straight single quote was just copied straight from the default Finalescript that Finale includes for converting curly quotes to straight quotes. I didn't change it; I was just showing what the script included with Finale looks like.

www.rpmseattle.com/of_note/?p=6192


Finale 2012, 2011 | Mac Pro 8 Core Xeon | OSX 10.6.x
www.musicprep.com/makemusic
www.rpmseattle.com/of_note/category/finale/

Post Edited (rpmseattle) : 8/8/2013 5:18:59 PM (GMT-5)

Back to Top

HBegun
Registered Member

Email Address Not AvailablePersonal Homepage Not AvailableSend a Private Message to HBegunAIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined Jan 1999
Total Posts : 1149
 
   Posted 8/8/2013 4:15 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
The caesura section can go anywhere after the line: search "<34>" replace with "“"

That section didn't paste properly on your site. The string indicators all need to be straight double quotes (most of them are changed to curly) and all the "replace with" strings need to be "<34>" (the ASCII code is missing). The rest looks good.


Howard Begun
Finale 2012
Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit
Intel Core Duo E8400, 3.0 GHz, 6 GB RAM

Back to Top

rpmseattle
Registered Member

Email Address Not AvailablePersonal Homepage Not AvailableSend a Private Message to rpmseattleAIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined Nov 2006
Total Posts : 419
 
   Posted 8/8/2013 5:16 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Thanks for your attention to detail, Howard.

I think I've finally gotten around the Wordpress "auto-smart-quotes" feature by putting the entire Finalescript into a Text Editor and running Find / Replace for every occurrence of the straight quote to change these the straight quote HTML code number. Hopefully, it is working now and everything stays put! Even so, in the blog post, I have removed all suggestions to copy the script text from the page itself and instead, have provided a link to a text file which I know will retain the formatting.

~robert

www.rpmseattle.com/of_note/?p=6192


Finale 2012, 2011 | Mac Pro 8 Core Xeon | OSX 10.6.x
www.musicprep.com/makemusic
www.rpmseattle.com/of_note/category/finale/

Back to Top
You cannot post new topics in this forum. You cannot reply to topics in this forum. Printable Version
42 posts in this thread.
Viewing Page :
 1  2 
   
Forum Information
Currently it is Thursday, December 12, 2019 12:37 AM (GMT -6)
There are a total of 403,820 posts in 58,165 threads.
In the last 3 days there were 0 new threads and 0 reply posts. View Active Threads