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| MakeMusic Forum > Public Forums > Finale - Macintosh - FORUM HAS MOVED! > Double-staffed multi-measure rest? | Forum Quick Jump
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Motet
Isorhythmic
      
Date Joined Dec 2002
Total Posts : 12849
| Posted 10/28/2015 2:26 AM (GMT -5) |   | Charles, some minor quibbles: I was a little confused by the dialog "Process entire score/part?" I finally figured out that checking the checkbox means "yes" (usually the exiting buttons answer the dialog question). But my suggestion would be that if there's a selection, do all the MMRs in the selection without further ado. If there's no selection at all, perhaps only then ask permission to do everything. One can always undo, after all.
If there's someway to remove the restriction that the part contain only a single grand staff, I think people would find that useful, too. Again, the user could select a grand staff only.
You seem to have encountered more unfortunate behavior with the notorious "Multimeasure rests: Update automatically" document option (updating apparently involves resetting the "count" threshold back to 2) which forced you to turn it off. A shame you had no other choice.
For the numbers, I think it would be good to use Document Options/Fonts/Notation/Multimeasure Rests for the font and point size (in the stock Maestro font default document it's Maestro 24). I realize this may not be possible to center it exactly vertically if you can't tell the character height from the font information. I guess another way to control the font conveniently is to make the user pick a category to put the numbers into, and use the category font.
But it seems to work and should be useful. Great work.
(In F2011, the numbers are 12-point, for some reason, but in F2014 they look pretty good at 18)
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Finale Transposition ChartPost Edited (Motet) : 10/28/2015 2:12:15 AM (GMT-5) | | Back to Top | |
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Charles Lawrence
Registered Member
Date Joined Dec 2009
Total Posts : 3638
| Posted 10/28/2015 8:50 AM (GMT -5) | | Motet,
Thanks for the feedback. Those are some good suggestions.
1) I can change the way I retrieve the answer to the question "Process entire score/part?" I can have a dialog box with Yes, No, Cancel instead of a checkbox. I like the idea that if there is a selection to process all MMRs within the selection, and if no selection is made to ask to process entire score/part. I was artificially requiring that the selection be a single MMR, but there is nothing to stop selecting a range of measures and process all MMRs within the range. I'll look into that.
2) A grand staff is not necessary, but two and only two staves is, first because that's what John Ruggero wanted, and second because a MMR is applied to the entire measure stack of the score/part. If there were 3 or more staves in the stack, empty measures in those staves would also be included in the MMR, which may or may not be what is desired. Also any notes in any staff would preclude that measure stack from being included in the MMR. Again, this may or may not be desirable. That's why I chose to require two and only two staves in the score/part. Comments/thoughts?
3) Regarding the font, there is no way to retrieve the character height, so that has to be empirically determined. I suppose some kind of algorithm could be developed to approximate the height based on the font/size, but that's maybe overkill. Too bad MM does not provide a way in the PDK. I considered retrieving the MMR font spec from the document properties, but I did not pursue it, because I mistakenly thought that Maestro didn't have numbers, but it does. I will definitely implement that in the next update.
4) Being able to choose a category, either predefined or user defined, or Miscellaneous could be implemented. Then, other than Miscellaneous, you could choose the category font, or the document MMR font. To me this does not add much usefulness to the procedure, but only complicates things. That is why I just chose Miscellaneous and TNR/18/B. Unless there is a demand for the category feature, I'll just keep using Miscellaneous, but get the MMR font spec from the document.
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Charles Lawrence
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Total Posts : 3638
| Posted 10/28/2015 1:33 PM (GMT -5) | | There is no good way to deal with it without a way to calculate the bounding box dimensions. Even though it is easy to determine the document MMR font specs, I think it best to stick with the default of Maestro/24/plain, which I now set. I now do not consider the character height (ie = 0), but now set the vertical adjustment in the document prefs for MMRs to 48 for Maestro/24/plain. It seems to work fairly well.
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John Ruggero
Registered Member
Date Joined Mar 2000
Total Posts : 820
| Posted 10/28/2015 3:27 PM (GMT -5) | | "When all is said and done, more is said than done."
Charles, I think that you just proved Zuill's' motto wrong, at least in this case. Thank you so much. This is a vast improvement over the workaround, and I hope that many will make use of it.
A few comments:
1. Maestro 24 pt does appear standard to me. See attached file by my hero.
2. A "Do not show this again" box for the first, second and third screens?
3. This style is also used for double-, triple-, and quadruple-staffed instrumental parts, so if there were demand for it and you were up for it, then this would be a nice addition. There is one complication, as you mention. A two piano score would have numbers only between the pairs of staves; two numbers in total. But a triple- or quadruple-staffed instrumental part would have numbers in all spaces.
4. Vertical centering is lost if staves are moved after the MMR is processed with your program. So this should be the last step in finishing any part. If by chance, an adjustment must be made later, one can simply recenter by hand, or run your program again and delete the old number.
Automatic, real-time vertical centering and re-centering of all expressions and even hairpins (something like our present automatic music spacing) would be the ultimate for those of us who do a lot of piano music. I think that the difficulty in doing this is why the standard MMR for double-staffing was ignored by Finale. Now, thanks to Charles Lawrence, we have the capability of adhering to standard notation for this rest.
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Charles Lawrence
Registered Member
Date Joined Dec 2009
Total Posts : 3638
| Posted 10/28/2015 4:52 PM (GMT -5) | | John,
I'm glad you found the script useful for work workflow. I am currently revising the script to incorporate some of the suggestions made by Motet. As usual, a programmers work is never done! There can always be improvements. Consider Finale in this regard.
For the purpose of this script, I think it best to force the font for the numbers to be Maestro/24/plain, but to restore the font to what was found in the document options at the end of the script. I think it best to leave the Update Automatically option turned off. With it on, bad things happen.
I had considered that displaying the lengthy intro dialog box, and maybe others, might become cumbersome after gaining familiarity with the script. I'll see if I can find a way to flag it to be turned off. This would require an external INI type file to save the flag.
Vertical centering would not be difficult provided you have the dimensions of the bounding box for the object you want to center. This is not available with the current revision of MakeMusic's Plug-in Development Kit (PDK). Hopefully this will be implemented in the near future. JW Lua cannot do what is not provided for in the PDK.
The expression for the number is attached to the measure in the top staff, not the page. Therefore, if the top stave is simply repositioned by whatever means, the number should follow. If the staves are reordered, or the whitespace between the staves is modified, or the line spacing of the top staff is modified, then, as I previously pointed out, you will have to either manually reposition the number, or delete it and rerun the script, where the vertical spacing will be recalculated.
Let's get the double staff worked out before adding more staves. Bear in mind the previously discussed issues associated with creating MMRs where more than two staves are involved.
"Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about!"
Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-5930K CPU with 6 dual core processors @ 3.50 GHz (12 threads)
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Motet
Isorhythmic
Date Joined Dec 2002
Total Posts : 12849
| Posted 10/28/2015 6:41 PM (GMT -5) | | Charles Lawrence said...
Let's get the double staff worked out before adding more staves. Bear in mind the previously discussed issues associated with creating MMRs where more than two staves are involved.
Yes, it seems like a conundrum. Since you need to replace all the MM numbers with expressions, seems like the only way to do it would be to list every staff with an option to either put a number above (normal), below and halfway to the next staff (centered), or omit it altogether. The default could be "below (centered)" for all staves but the bottom one, which would be "omit."
I don't blame you if this seems like overkill, though. Another option would be to just do that default and let the user delete or move anything that strays from that.
Attached is a multiple-keyboard part, and how I think it might look (not the above-described default).
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Finale Transposition ChartPost Edited (Motet) : 10/28/2015 5:51:30 PM (GMT-5)
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Charles Lawrence
Registered Member
Date Joined Dec 2009
Total Posts : 3638
| Posted 10/28/2015 8:43 PM (GMT -5) | | David Ward and others,
Here's how I set up my system. I create a sub-directory "JW Plug-ins" in the directory where plug-ins go, pointed to by Edit->Preferences-Folders->Plugins. I place the JW Lua plug-in (and its two auxiliary files) in that folder. I create a new folder somewhere called "JW Lua scripts" and place my DoubleStaffMMR.lua file and any other JW Lua scripts in that directory.
At first you must run the JW Lua plugin and click on the "Manager" tab. In the top pane called "Plug-in Groups" there is a default plug-in group called [Menu]. Select it. Then in the bottom pane called "Items in Group", click on "New" to add a new item. Navigate to where you saved my script file and double click it. This will add an item, my script, to the menu, so that it will now show in the "JW Plug-ins" sub-directory in the "Plug-ins" menu dropdown. Choose my script to start it.
After you have set up the menu item, you do not have to actually run the JW Lua plug-in to start any JW Lua script you have added to the menu, just choose it from the menu.
You can also select the "Development" tab in the JW Lua plug-in interface, and click the "open" button along the top. Navigate to where you stored my script file and double click it to open the source code in the editor window. Feel free to examine the code if you feel so inclined. It is not secret nor proprietary in any way. You may discover how JW Lua works under the hood. JW Lua is not difficult, but there is a steep learning curve. Although Lua is not object oriented in and of itself, it can be made to look like it is. This is what Jari has done to provide the hooks into the PDK for JW Lua scripters. To run the script click on the "Run script" button. There is a pane at the bottom where any print commands in JW Lua will be displayed along with other messages. My script does not print anything, but rather displays a dialog at the end with a count of processed MMRs.
Hope this helps. I'm not sure what advice you got from John in the PM.
"Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about!"
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Zuill
"The Troll"
Date Joined Oct 2003
Total Posts : 29077
| Posted 10/28/2015 10:50 PM (GMT -5) | | When you run the script in a part, the expression still shows in the score, where the script itself can't be run. I just right click the expression in the part and choose Expression Assignment. I then choose for this expression to be only in parts. That stifles it in the score. I know I could uncheck Show in the score, but I have chosen to see hidden items faintly. The first way doesn't show even the shadow in the score.
Maybe the script could choose this option? I wish I knew how to do it myself. Maybe someday, when I'm not so busy.
Zuill
"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
Finale 2002b, 2003a, 2004b, 2005b, Win XP SP3, 2011b Win 7 64bit, 2012a Bought and Paid For (Hopefully soon 2012b with some of the MAJOR BUGS fixed--well, now with 2012b and some of the bugs are fixed) 2012c, with some bug fixes. 2014c at present. Now 2014d.
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Charles Lawrence
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Total Posts : 3638
| Posted 10/29/2015 9:42 AM (GMT -5) | | Zuill,
I think that can be done. I'll include it in the next revision. Thanks for the feedback.
"Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about!"
Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-5930K CPU with 6 dual core processors @ 3.50 GHz (12 threads)
32 GB RAM
Realtek High Definition on board audio
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 980 GPU with 4GB ram
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Finale versions: 2011b.r2, 2012c.r13, 2014d.v5030
GPO4.02
Cakewalk SONAR X3
"There is a world of difference between a person who has a big problem and a person who makes a problem big." – John Maxwell
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Motet
Isorhythmic
Date Joined Dec 2002
Total Posts : 12849
| Posted 10/29/2015 6:55 PM (GMT -5) | | | |
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Zuill
"The Troll"
Date Joined Oct 2003
Total Posts : 29077
| Posted 10/29/2015 8:57 PM (GMT -5) | | It works if you do it while in the Part itself.
Zuill
"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
Finale 2002b, 2003a, 2004b, 2005b, Win XP SP3, 2011b Win 7 64bit, 2012a Bought and Paid For (Hopefully soon 2012b with some of the MAJOR BUGS fixed--well, now with 2012b and some of the bugs are fixed) 2012c, with some bug fixes. 2014c at present. Now 2014d.
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Charles Lawrence
Registered Member
Date Joined Dec 2009
Total Posts : 3638
| Posted 10/30/2015 12:05 AM (GMT -5) | | |
Michael,
No it does not have to be an extracted part.
No it is not for Macs only. In fact I wrote the script on a Windows platform.
It should work in the harp part, if you have it selected for edit.
The reason I wrote it to require a two stave and only two stave score/part is because a MMR is applied to all the staves in the score/part. If there are notes in any of the measures of the staves selected for MMR creation, it will prevent the creation of the MMR for those measures. Besides the OP, John, asked for a double staff MMR. If the score has more than two staves, e.g. a harp, piano, and string ensemble, you must select the harp or piano part that has two staves before the script will process any MMRs in that part. For example, if the harp part has rests in measures 1,2 but the piano has notes, then in the score you cannot create a MMR for measures 1,2. In the harp part, you can.
I may have to revise my thinking on the score/part to allow a selected MMR to be processed even if there are more staves that are not included in the selection.
"Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about!"
Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-5930K CPU with 6 dual core processors @ 3.50 GHz (12 threads)
32 GB RAM
Realtek High Definition on board audio
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 980 GPU with 4GB ram
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Microsoft Windows 8.1 Professional with Media Center x64 Edition, (06.03.9600.00)
Finale versions: 2011b.r2, 2012c.r13, 2014d.v5030
GPO4.02
Cakewalk SONAR X3
"There is a world of difference between a person who has a big problem and a person who makes a problem big." – John Maxwell
Post Edited (Charles Lawrence) : 10/29/2015 11:08:42 PM (GMT-5) | | Back to Top | |
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Charles Lawrence
Registered Member
Date Joined Dec 2009
Total Posts : 3638
| Posted 10/30/2015 11:11 AM (GMT -5) | | |
Michael,
Could you post or email me the mus(x) file causing the problem? It sounds like you have a much more complicated document than I ever tested with. It seems to be finding some unforeseen logic errors. Maybe I can pin the problem down. Your document is safe with me.
Hidden staves and staves with styles are certainly conditions I did not consider.  As I suspected would happen, this project is ballooning far beyond my original, and apparently simplistic first approach.
"Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about!"
Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-5930K CPU with 6 dual core processors @ 3.50 GHz (12 threads)
32 GB RAM
Realtek High Definition on board audio
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 980 GPU with 4GB ram
512 GB SSD system disk
Four 4TB and one 1TB internal SATA HD's
Microsoft Windows 8.1 Professional with Media Center x64 Edition, (06.03.9600.00)
Finale versions: 2011b.r2, 2012c.r13, 2014d.v5030
GPO4.02
Cakewalk SONAR X3
"There is a world of difference between a person who has a big problem and a person who makes a problem big." – John Maxwell
Post Edited (Charles Lawrence) : 10/30/2015 10:38:30 AM (GMT-5) | | Back to Top | |
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