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Motet
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   Posted 10/28/2015 1:26 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Charles, some minor quibbles: I was a little confused by the dialog "Process entire score/part?" I finally figured out that checking the checkbox means "yes" (usually the exiting buttons answer the dialog question). But my suggestion would be that if there's a selection, do all the MMRs in the selection without further ado. If there's no selection at all, perhaps only then ask permission to do everything. One can always undo, after all.

If there's someway to remove the restriction that the part contain only a single grand staff, I think people would find that useful, too. Again, the user could select a grand staff only.

You seem to have encountered more unfortunate behavior with the notorious "Multimeasure rests: Update automatically" document option (updating apparently involves resetting the "count" threshold back to 2) which forced you to turn it off. A shame you had no other choice.

For the numbers, I think it would be good to use Document Options/Fonts/Notation/Multimeasure Rests for the font and point size (in the stock Maestro font default document it's Maestro 24). I realize this may not be possible to center it exactly vertically if you can't tell the character height from the font information. I guess another way to control the font conveniently is to make the user pick a category to put the numbers into, and use the category font.

But it seems to work and should be useful. Great work.

(In F2011, the numbers are 12-point, for some reason, but in F2014 they look pretty good at 18)


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Post Edited (Motet) : 10/28/2015 2:12:15 AM (GMT-5)

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Charles Lawrence
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   Posted 10/28/2015 7:50 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.

Motet,

Thanks for the feedback.  Those are some good suggestions.

1) I can change the way I retrieve the answer to the question "Process entire score/part?"  I can have a dialog box with Yes, No, Cancel instead of a checkbox.  I like the idea that if there is a selection to process all MMRs within the selection, and if no selection is made to ask to process entire score/part.  I was artificially requiring that the selection be a single MMR, but there is nothing to stop selecting a range of measures and process all MMRs within the range.  I'll look into that.

2) A grand staff is not necessary, but two and only two staves is, first because that's what John Ruggero wanted, and second because a MMR is applied to the entire measure stack of the score/part.  If there were 3 or more staves in the stack, empty measures in those staves would also be included in the MMR, which may or may not be what is desired.  Also any notes in any staff would preclude that measure stack from being included in the MMR.  Again, this may or may not be desirable.  That's why I chose to require two and only two staves in the score/part.  Comments/thoughts?

3) Regarding the font, there is no way to retrieve the character height, so that has to be empirically determined.  I suppose some kind of algorithm could be developed to approximate the height based on the font/size, but that's maybe overkill.  Too bad MM does not provide a way in the PDK.  I considered retrieving the MMR font spec from the document properties, but I did not pursue it, because I mistakenly thought that Maestro didn't have numbers, but it does.  I will definitely implement that in the next update.

4) Being able to choose a category, either predefined or user defined, or Miscellaneous could be implemented.  Then, other than Miscellaneous, you could choose the category font, or the document MMR font.  To me this does not add much usefulness to the procedure, but only complicates things.  That is why I just chose Miscellaneous and TNR/18/B.  Unless there is a demand for the category feature, I'll just keep using Miscellaneous, but get the MMR font spec from the document.


"Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about!"

 

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Motet
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   Posted 10/28/2015 10:39 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
How will you deal with the unknown font height, though? The 24 point Maestro numbers are about the same size as your 18-point Times. Maybe exact vertical centering must be left to the human.

I see your point with other instruments present.


Finale 2011b, 2005, TGTools
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Post Edited (Motet) : 10/28/2015 10:42:08 AM (GMT-5)

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Motet
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   Posted 10/28/2015 11:54 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I experimented and the Update MM's Automatically setting also resets any vertical displacement you've made as well as the number threshold. I can see redoing MMs in parts when you add notes in the score, but there doesn't seem to be any good reason for this other behavior. Mark Adler spoke of fixing Update Automatically with 2014.5, so perhaps if you're reading this, Mark, you can take this into account. My vote would be to update only the affected rests, and even then, don't mess with these settings.


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Charles Lawrence
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   Posted 10/28/2015 12:33 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
There is no good way to deal with it without a way to calculate the bounding box dimensions.  Even though it is easy to determine the document MMR font specs, I think it best to stick with the default of Maestro/24/plain, which I now set.  I now do not consider the character height (ie = 0), but now set the vertical adjustment in the document prefs for MMRs to 48 for Maestro/24/plain.  It seems to work fairly well.


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John Ruggero
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   Posted 10/28/2015 2:27 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
"When all is said and done, more is said than done."

Charles, I think that you just proved Zuill's' motto wrong, at least in this case. Thank you so much. This is a vast improvement over the workaround, and I hope that many will make use of it.

A few comments:

1. Maestro 24 pt does appear standard to me. See attached file by my hero.

2. A "Do not show this again" box for the first, second and third screens?

3. This style is also used for double-, triple-, and quadruple-staffed instrumental parts, so if there were demand for it and you were up for it, then this would be a nice addition. There is one complication, as you mention. A two piano score would have numbers only between the pairs of staves; two numbers in total. But a triple- or quadruple-staffed instrumental part would have numbers in all spaces.

4. Vertical centering is lost if staves are moved after the MMR is processed with your program. So this should be the last step in finishing any part. If by chance, an adjustment must be made later, one can simply recenter by hand, or run your program again and delete the old number.

Automatic, real-time vertical centering and re-centering of all expressions and even hairpins (something like our present automatic music spacing) would be the ultimate for those of us who do a lot of piano music. I think that the difficulty in doing this is why the standard MMR for double-staffing was ignored by Finale. Now, thanks to Charles Lawrence, we have the capability of adhering to standard notation for this rest.


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Motet
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   Posted 10/28/2015 3:14 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
John Ruggero said...
I think that the difficulty in doing [vertical centering] is why the standard MMR for double-staffing was ignored by Finale.


My guess is it's not all that difficult (look what else Finale can do!) but was rather was just an oversight. Ideally it would be a function of the group attributes, like drawing barlines.


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Charles Lawrence
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   Posted 10/28/2015 3:52 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.

John,

I'm glad you found the script useful for work workflow.  I am currently revising the script to incorporate some of the suggestions made by Motet.  As usual, a programmers work is never done!  There can always be improvements.  Consider Finale in this regard.

For the purpose of this script, I think it best to force the font for the numbers to be Maestro/24/plain, but to restore the font to what was found in the document options at the end of the script.  I think it best to leave the Update Automatically option turned off.  With it on, bad things happen.

I had considered that displaying the lengthy intro dialog box, and maybe others, might become cumbersome after gaining familiarity with the script.  I'll see if I can find a way to flag it to be turned off.  This would require an external INI type file to save the flag.

Vertical centering would not be difficult provided you have the dimensions of the bounding box for the object you want to center.  This is not available with the current revision of MakeMusic's Plug-in Development Kit (PDK).  Hopefully this will be implemented in the near future.  JW Lua cannot do what is not provided for in the PDK.

The expression for the number is attached to the measure in the top staff, not the page.  Therefore, if the top stave is simply repositioned by whatever means, the number should follow.  If the staves are reordered, or the whitespace between the staves is modified, or the line spacing of the top staff is modified, then, as I previously pointed out, you will have to either manually reposition the number, or delete it and rerun the script, where the vertical spacing will be recalculated.
 
Let's get the double staff worked out before adding more staves.  Bear in mind the previously discussed issues associated with creating MMRs where more than two staves are involved.


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David Ward
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   Posted 10/28/2015 3:57 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I'm now displaying my woeful ignorance of how Lua works.

I'd like to be able to use Charles' DoubleStaffMMR.lua, but having downloaded it, I discover that I don't know in which folder I need to install it, nor how to make it active.

Help!


David Ward
www.composers-uk.com/davidward

Finale 2014d with Mac 10.9.5
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Motet
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   Posted 10/28/2015 4:19 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
You need the JWLua plug-in. It's got an odd interface that I haven't figured out, but if you go to Manager and then open, you can navigate to wherever you've put Charles's script.


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David Ward
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   Posted 10/28/2015 5:11 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Motet said...
You need the JWLua plug-in. It's got an odd interface that I haven't figured out, but if you go to Manager and then open, you can navigate to wherever you've put Charles's script.
Thank you.

I also received a very helpful PM from John Ruggero on what to do, but as I said in reply to him, I'd now better wait until the weekend to work it out as I need to get myself organized for a brief trip away tomorrow (and it's getting quite late here).


David Ward
www.composers-uk.com/davidward

Finale 2014d with Mac 10.9.5
Finale 2010b with Mac 10.6.8
full TGTools

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“We enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought.” JFK

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Motet
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   Posted 10/28/2015 5:41 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Charles Lawrence said...
Let's get the double staff worked out before adding more staves. Bear in mind the previously discussed issues associated with creating MMRs where more than two staves are involved.


Yes, it seems like a conundrum. Since you need to replace all the MM numbers with expressions, seems like the only way to do it would be to list every staff with an option to either put a number above (normal), below and halfway to the next staff (centered), or omit it altogether. The default could be "below (centered)" for all staves but the bottom one, which would be "omit."

I don't blame you if this seems like overkill, though. Another option would be to just do that default and let the user delete or move anything that strays from that.

Attached is a multiple-keyboard part, and how I think it might look (not the above-described default).


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Post Edited (Motet) : 10/28/2015 5:51:30 PM (GMT-5)


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Charles Lawrence
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   Posted 10/28/2015 7:43 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.

David Ward and others,

Here's how I set up my system.  I create a sub-directory "JW Plug-ins" in the directory where plug-ins go, pointed to by Edit->Preferences-Folders->Plugins.  I place the JW Lua plug-in (and its two auxiliary files) in that folder.  I create a new folder somewhere called "JW Lua scripts" and place my DoubleStaffMMR.lua file and any other JW Lua scripts in that directory.

At first you must run the JW Lua plugin and click on the "Manager" tab.  In the top pane called "Plug-in Groups" there is a default plug-in group called [Menu].  Select it.  Then in the bottom pane called "Items in Group", click on "New" to add a new item.  Navigate to where you saved my script file and double click it.  This will add an item, my script, to the menu, so that it will now show in the "JW Plug-ins" sub-directory in the "Plug-ins" menu dropdown.  Choose my script to start it.

After you have set up the menu item, you do not have to actually run the JW Lua plug-in to start any JW Lua script you have added to the menu, just choose it from the menu.

You can also select the "Development" tab in the JW Lua plug-in interface, and click the "open" button along the top.  Navigate to where you stored my script file and double click it to open the source code in the editor window.  Feel free to examine the code if you feel so inclined.  It is not secret nor proprietary in any way.  You may discover how JW Lua works under the hood.  JW Lua is not difficult, but there is a steep learning curve.  Although Lua is not object oriented in and of itself, it can be made to look like it is.  This is what Jari has done to provide the hooks into the PDK for JW Lua scripters.  To run the script click on the "Run script" button.  There is a pane at the bottom where any print commands in JW Lua will be displayed along with other messages.  My script does not print anything, but rather displays a dialog at the end with a count of processed MMRs.

Hope this helps.  I'm not sure what advice you got from John in the PM.


"Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about!"

 

Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-5930K CPU with 6 dual core processors @ 3.50 GHz (12 threads)

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Realtek High Definition on board audio
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512 GB SSD system disk

Four 4TB and one 1TB internal SATA HD's
Microsoft Windows 8.1 Professional with Media Center x64 Edition, (06.03.9600.00)
Finale versions: 2011b.r2, 2012c.r13, 2014d.v5030

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Zuill
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   Posted 10/28/2015 9:50 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
When you run the script in a part, the expression still shows in the score, where the script itself can't be run. I just right click the expression in the part and choose Expression Assignment. I then choose for this expression to be only in parts. That stifles it in the score. I know I could uncheck Show in the score, but I have chosen to see hidden items faintly. The first way doesn't show even the shadow in the score.

Maybe the script could choose this option? I wish I knew how to do it myself. Maybe someday, when I'm not so busy.

Zuill


"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
 
Finale 2002b, 2003a, 2004b, 2005b, Win XP SP3, 2011b Win 7 64bit, 2012a Bought and Paid For (Hopefully soon 2012b with some of the MAJOR BUGS fixed--well, now with 2012b and some of the bugs are fixed) 2012c, with some bug fixes. 2014c at present. Now 2014d.
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Charles Lawrence
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   Posted 10/29/2015 8:42 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.

Zuill,

I think that can be done.  I'll include it in the next revision.  Thanks for the feedback.


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Finale versions: 2011b.r2, 2012c.r13, 2014d.v5030

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Motet
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   Posted 10/29/2015 3:45 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
If the top staff is in more than one part, the expression may be unwanted in the other part(s) as well.


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Michel R. E.
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   Posted 10/29/2015 4:50 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I have an older version of JW Lua, so your script doesn't work for me.
But now, for the life of me, I can't figure out where to get the latest version of JW Lua!!! it's not in plugins on the usual website I go to for this (finaletips.nu).


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Motet
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   Posted 10/29/2015 5:55 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Plug-ins/Beta Versions:

finaletips.nu/index.php/download/category/28-beta-version


Finale 2011b, 2005, TGTools
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Post Edited (Motet) : 10/29/2015 6:07:02 PM (GMT-5)

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Michel R. E.
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   Posted 10/29/2015 7:53 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I downloaded it, then tried the script, but it keeps giving me a message that it should be 2 staves. I tried in the score (selecting only the harp part) and in the harp part itself (it is a 2-staff harp part, no hidden staves, no extra staves).

nothing I do works, it just gives me that message that it has to be a two staff system (or whatever)


Finale (started with ver. 3.0) now using 2012 under Windows 8.1
basically ALL Garritan libraries, plus XSample Chamber Ensemble.

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Zuill
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   Posted 10/29/2015 7:57 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
It works if you do it while in the Part itself.

Zuill


"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
 
Finale 2002b, 2003a, 2004b, 2005b, Win XP SP3, 2011b Win 7 64bit, 2012a Bought and Paid For (Hopefully soon 2012b with some of the MAJOR BUGS fixed--well, now with 2012b and some of the bugs are fixed) 2012c, with some bug fixes. 2014c at present. Now 2014d.
Favorite Forum quote: "Please, everybody, IGNORE THE TROLL!"

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Michel R. E.
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   Posted 10/29/2015 9:12 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
does it have to be an extracted part?

as I wrote in my post, I did it in the harp part as well as in the score. it does nothing in the linked harp part.

or is this a script that only works on Macs?


Finale (started with ver. 3.0) now using 2012 under Windows 8.1
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Charles Lawrence
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   Posted 10/29/2015 11:05 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.

Michael,

No it does not have to be an extracted part.

No it is not for Macs only.  In fact I wrote the script on a Windows platform.

It should work in the harp part, if you have it selected for edit.

The reason I wrote it to require a two stave and only two stave score/part is because a MMR is applied to all the staves in the score/part.  If there are notes in any of the measures of the staves selected for MMR creation, it will prevent the creation of the MMR for those measures.  Besides the OP, John, asked for a double staff MMR.  If the score has more than two staves, e.g. a harp, piano, and string ensemble, you must select the harp or piano part that has two staves before the script will process any MMRs in that part.  For example, if the harp part has rests in measures 1,2 but the piano has notes, then in the score you cannot create a MMR for measures 1,2.  In the harp part, you can.

I may have to revise my thinking on the score/part to allow a selected MMR to be processed even if there are more staves that are not included in the selection.



"Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about!"

 

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Realtek High Definition on board audio
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Cakewalk SONAR X3

 

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Post Edited (Charles Lawrence) : 10/29/2015 11:08:42 PM (GMT-5)

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Michel R. E.
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   Posted 10/29/2015 11:25 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I'm trying it from the linked harp part.
and it's not working, telling me it must be a 2 staff part (which it is).

***edit

I just tried it from a bank new document, with only a harp part, and it worked.

I have no idea why the harp part (created using the default harp in the score creation wizard) in my complete orchestral score is not working.


Finale (started with ver. 3.0) now using 2012 under Windows 8.1
basically ALL Garritan libraries, plus XSample Chamber Ensemble.

"Art critics suffer from Pigeon Syndrome. Pigeons like to leave their mark on monuments. But at the end of the day, the pigeon remains a pigeon, and the monument remains a monument."

Post Edited (Michel R. E.) : 10/29/2015 11:28:32 PM (GMT-5)

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Michel R. E.
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   Posted 10/29/2015 11:37 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I use a staff style for the 1st measure of movements that hides the staff lines and left and right barlines, and I force-hide the 2nd staff of any double-staff parts (like the harp) so I can insert the movement title as a text expression that auto-centers between each end of the measure.
This might have been PART of the problem, at least, after removing the staff style from that first measure and unhiding the bottom staff, the script ran a bit further.. but...

then I got this error message:

script error while running JW Lua script:
...012]plug-ins\JWLUA_scripts\DoubleStaffMMR.lua.94
Attempt to perform arithmetic on a nil value (local 'stavesSpan')


Finale (started with ver. 3.0) now using 2012 under Windows 8.1
basically ALL Garritan libraries, plus XSample Chamber Ensemble.

"Art critics suffer from Pigeon Syndrome. Pigeons like to leave their mark on monuments. But at the end of the day, the pigeon remains a pigeon, and the monument remains a monument."

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Charles Lawrence
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   Posted 10/30/2015 10:11 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.

Michael,

Could you post or email me the mus(x) file causing the problem?  It sounds like you have a much more complicated document than I ever tested with.  It seems to be finding some unforeseen logic errors.  Maybe I can pin the problem down.  Your document is safe with me.

Hidden staves and staves with styles are certainly conditions I did not consider. blush  As I suspected would happen, this project is ballooning far beyond my original, and apparently simplistic first approach.


"Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about!"

 

Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-5930K CPU with 6 dual core processors @ 3.50 GHz (12 threads)

32 GB RAM

Realtek High Definition on board audio
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 980 GPU with 4GB ram

512 GB SSD system disk

Four 4TB and one 1TB internal SATA HD's
Microsoft Windows 8.1 Professional with Media Center x64 Edition, (06.03.9600.00)
Finale versions: 2011b.r2, 2012c.r13, 2014d.v5030

GPO4.02

 

Cakewalk SONAR X3

 

"There is a world of difference between a person who has a big problem and a person who makes a problem big." – John Maxwell

Post Edited (Charles Lawrence) : 10/30/2015 10:38:30 AM (GMT-5)

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