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Jari Williamsson
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Date Joined Dec 1998
Total Posts : 3246
 
   Posted 11/15/2013 10:16 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
RV said...
Because - my App CRASHES before I even see a splash screen…


Are you sure it isn't an AU that crashes?


Jari Williamsson

Windows XP, Pentium 4
2.40 GHz, 4 GB RAM

www.finaletips.nu - The Finale Productivity Tips site

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Shnootre
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   Posted 11/15/2013 10:17 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I am grateful for the o/p. I am in the midst of the biggest project of my life, and if Finale 14 were an update that was running smooth across all platforms (are the original releases, before the updates, ever?) I would consider upgrading my operating system so I could run it. The new features look practical and helpful, though none get me really excited (like improved page formatting would). I will sit tight and continue to read reports, and am happy not to be a beta tester at this time. I have faith MM will make the changes necessary to get this upgrade running right.


Daniel Sonenberg
Macbook Pro 2 GHz Intel Core i7
OSX 10.6.8
4 gig ram
GPO4 full and JABB3
Finale 2012

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Mike Rosen
himself



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   Posted 11/15/2013 10:21 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
What I find interesting about all the comments, is that (remembering the 2012 release) I haven't seen a single mention about the continued lack of magnetic positioning.

I guess the lack of 64-bit is more important, this time.

To me? Not.



Mike Rosen
www.specialmillwork.com

Bass with Choir of the Sound www.choirofthesound.org

Volunteer notation editor (The Gang of Eight) for the Barbershop Harmony Society
FINALE TIPS at www.specialmillwork.com/finaletips.htm

Finale 2010, 2011, 2012c, 2014 on Mac 10.9
Simple Entry, QWERTY keyboard. That's my system, and I'm stickin' to it.

"As a musician, he's a damn fine woodworker."

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Shnootre
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   Posted 11/15/2013 10:31 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
magnetic positioning lack is a bummer, and page formatting in general is a bummer. I'll never switch to Sibelius (because I think Finale is a vastly superior tool for composition), but I have Sibelius envy every time I work w/ students on formatting their scores in that program. In particular, the way systems just snap correctly to fill up the whole page when dragged is a dream. If portability were a more viable option (without too many things getting screwed up), I would definitely compose in Finale and format in Sibelius.


Daniel Sonenberg
Macbook Pro 2 GHz Intel Core i7
OSX 10.6.8
4 gig ram
GPO4 full and JABB3
Finale 2012

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saxop
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   Posted 11/15/2013 11:47 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
RV said...


Why don't they make Finale for the "geeky Pro's (Now REALLY!!) and sibelius for the sometimes-users and teachers/schools?


MakeMusic's footprint on the music education market is quite a bit stronger than Sibelius'. And there's no reason right now for MakeMusic to back away from any notation markets. Sibelius is the product that's in trouble, with a large number of its formerly enthusiastic users now watching Steinberg. The notation market is small enough as it is, especially with more popular than ever free alternatives available (Noteflight and MuseScore).
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Motet
Isorhythmic



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   Posted 11/15/2013 1:36 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
RV,

It is possible to get a refund on 2014, but your problems may not be insurmountable.


Finale 2011b, 2005, TGTools
Windows XP

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BvdPress
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   Posted 11/15/2013 2:51 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
saxop said...
RV said...


Why don't they make Finale for the "geeky Pro's (Now REALLY!!) and sibelius for the sometimes-users and teachers/schools?


MakeMusic's footprint on the music education market is quite a bit stronger than Sibelius'. And there's no reason right now for MakeMusic to back away from any notation markets. Sibelius is the product that's in trouble, with a large number of its formerly enthusiastic users now watching Steinberg. The notation market is small enough as it is, especially with more popular than ever free alternatives available (Noteflight and MuseScore).


Isn't Steinberg essentially still an idea?


Bryan Doughty
BVD Press, Music Express and Cimarron Music
Oystein Baadsvik US tour coordinator - http://www.baadsvik.com/
[email protected] or [email protected]
http://www.bvdpress.com
http://www.cimarronmusic.com/

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MowingDevil
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   Posted 11/15/2013 2:53 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
saxop said...
MowingDevil said...


Bollocks. Whether or not a 7th grader gets it doesn't make it more standard.


The standard concept that people understand is that the more P's the composer writes, the quieter you play. That's the rule. Any musician who reads ppp and pppp in the same song will know which is quieter, because they understand the rule.

But I understand that you're talking about which is more common. And I believe you're incorrect, at least here in the United States. I would have a difficult time finding a musician who has never come across pppp. I'd have the opposite problem with niente.


Different worlds perhaps. Niente (or a circle as a symbol to start from silence) turns up 10x more in scores I read than pppp.

saxop said...
MowingDevil said...

You also contradict yourself. Reducing the hairpins to one button would reduce the "crap" as you put it. Is it really that hard to comprehend since they are both *exactly the same* whether you go left to right or vice versa? Its simple really. One streamlined button w/ an icon that has both hairpins on it. Finale has made way bigger changes than this, c'mon.


First of all, one additional symbol on a palette that fits easily on the screen is not the same thing as adding tons of extra symbols to dig through. Secondly, I already explained other reasons, including workflow. Sometimes it's faster to work left to right. The opposite might be true at times as well. If you're limiting yourself to working one direction because you don't press < >, then you are slowing yourself down. That's your choice. Don't try to take away mine.


You really think clicking back and forth between 2 tools and then dragging the same way is more efficient than one tool which you drag either way? I see it as the exact opposite, it would speed things up and simplify the tool palette/bar. Now that they allow for each symbol to do both (but opposite of each other) it would be more intuitive. They got rid of the mass mover, I could see this coming in down the road.

I already addressed how extra symbols could easily be handled.
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Michel R. E.
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   Posted 11/15/2013 3:10 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
MowingDevil said...

You really think clicking back and forth between 2 tools and then dragging the same way is more efficient than one tool which you drag either way? I see it as the exact opposite, it would speed things up and simplify the tool palette/bar. Now that they allow for each symbol to do both (but opposite of each other) it would be more intuitive. They got rid of the mass mover, I could see this coming in down the road.

I already addressed how extra symbols could easily be handled.



you DO know that you can easily assign metatools to shartshapes right?

I just choose the smartshape tool, and from there S = slur, D = diminuendo, C = crescendo, etc...

no need to go back and forth to change the tool.


Finale (started with ver. 3.0) 2010, 2011, 2012b installed
Win XP
basically ALL Garritan sounds, plus XSample Chamber Ensemble.

"Art critics suffer from Pigeon Syndrome. Pigeons like to leave their mark on monuments. But at the end of the day, the pigeon remains a pigeon, and the monument remains a monument."

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Motet
Isorhythmic



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   Posted 11/15/2013 3:23 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Haven't the hairpin tools worked both ways for a very long time? I only use the crescendo tool.


Finale 2011b, 2005, TGTools
Windows XP

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Michael Cook
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   Posted 11/15/2013 3:33 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
BvdPress said...
Isn't Steinberg essentially still an idea?


Steinberg's notation application is certainly more than an idea: the team has been working at it for a year now. Of course it will need a lot more work before it's ready for the public, but there's no doubt that Steinberg and the development team are committed to getting that work done. It has high chances of being a worthy competitor for Finale when it does come on the market.


Michael Cook
Finale 3.0 - 2014
Mac OS 10.9

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Christopher Smith
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   Posted 11/15/2013 3:49 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Michel R. E. said...

you DO know that you can easily assign metatools to shartshapes right?

I just choose the smartshape tool, and from there S = slur, D = diminuendo, C = crescendo, etc...

no need to go back and forth to change the tool.


In fact, out of the box Finale assigns cresc. to < and dim to > (or more accurately, comma and period). If I have a cresc. followed by dim, my mouse is already in the correct position. I just hit the other key with my left hand.

I leave the Smart Shape tool permanently on Slur and just use the metatools for everything else. But Mowing Devil could drag either way and not be bothered about it. I don't know why he is so incensed by that one little thing that some other people find useful. I get way more upset about grace notes breaking in voiced linked parts (am I to understand that's fixed in 2014?), and the articulations which in a recent version of Finale suddenly started flipping to below the staff when invoking Rhythmic Notation staff styles. THAT's a lot of useless mousing I have to put up with.


Christopher Smith

Mac 2 x 2 Ghz Dual-Core Intel Xeon
OSX 10.6.8
Finale 2011b and 2012c r.13
or
Mac iBook G4 733 Mhz
OSX 10.4.11
Finale 2010b r.1

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saxop
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   Posted 11/15/2013 7:21 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
MowingDevil said...


You really think clicking back and forth between 2 tools and then dragging the same way is more efficient than one tool which you drag either way? I see it as the exact opposite, it would speed things up and simplify the tool palette/bar. Now that they allow for each symbol to do both (but opposite of each other) it would be more intuitive. They got rid of the mass mover, I could see this coming in down the road.


The technique has been stated several times in this thread. Hold <, double click drag. Hold >, double click drag. Like Christopher, I leave it on the Slur tool. Try this test. Give yourself 3 measures, and in each one enter a crescendo followed by a decrescendo. Try it both ways. Working left to right continually results in less mouse movement and makes it easier to keep your mouse in the same vertical position.
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Mike Rosen
himself



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Total Posts : 14146
 
   Posted 11/15/2013 7:26 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Pretend one of the icons isn't there. In your mind's eye, imagine that the one that remains has cresc. and decresc. both indicated. Hold down the arrow, and drag whichever direction you want.

Satisfied?



Mike Rosen
www.specialmillwork.com

Bass with Choir of the Sound www.choirofthesound.org

Volunteer notation editor (The Gang of Eight) for the Barbershop Harmony Society
FINALE TIPS at www.specialmillwork.com/finaletips.htm

Finale 2010, 2011, 2012c, 2014 on Mac 10.9
Simple Entry, QWERTY keyboard. That's my system, and I'm stickin' to it.

"As a musician, he's a damn fine woodworker."

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Flint
silly bear



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   Posted 11/15/2013 9:31 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Why is it those who complain the loudest about Finale's shortcomings tend to be the ones who don't know how to use it effectively or efficiently?


woodwind specialist and doubler - Finale 2011b using Speedy Entry - no capslock, GPO 4 Full, Garritan Jazz & Big Band 3, Garritan Concert and Marching Band 2, Windows 8 64-bit, 12GB RAM
UNABLE TO DOWNLOAD Finale 2014 DUE TO LACK OF CAT PICTURES.

If the composer says in effect to the performer: "I do not care whether you perform my music or not," we cannot argue the matter. But if he indicates: "I want you to perform and respond to this music," then his fundamental duty is to write his music so that it is accessible to interpretation. When the performer cannot approach the composer's meaning because of capriciously obscure notation, he may in effect say to the composer: "Why should I bother to puzzle out your music?" - Gardner Read

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Mike Rosen
himself



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   Posted 11/15/2013 10:24 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Because complaining is easier than learning.



Mike Rosen
www.specialmillwork.com

Bass with Choir of the Sound www.choirofthesound.org

Volunteer notation editor (The Gang of Eight) for the Barbershop Harmony Society
FINALE TIPS at www.specialmillwork.com/finaletips.htm

Finale 2010, 2011, 2012c, 2014 on Mac 10.9
Simple Entry, QWERTY keyboard. That's my system, and I'm stickin' to it.

"As a musician, he's a damn fine woodworker."

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BvdPress
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   Posted 11/16/2013 12:13 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Michael Cook said...
BvdPress said...
Isn't Steinberg essentially still an idea?


Steinberg's notation application is certainly more than an idea: the team has been working at it for a year now. Of course it will need a lot more work before it's ready for the public, but there's no doubt that Steinberg and the development team are committed to getting that work done. It has high chances of being a worthy competitor for Finale when it does come on the market.


I truly hope it will be a competitor, but without an actual product all we can do now is speculate.

The one huge plus they do have a is a team who has already "done it". I guess we just wait and see...


Bryan Doughty
BVD Press, Music Express and Cimarron Music
Oystein Baadsvik US tour coordinator - http://www.baadsvik.com/
[email protected] or [email protected]
http://www.bvdpress.com
http://www.cimarronmusic.com/

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Vaughan
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   Posted 11/16/2013 5:35 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
If RV is still following this thread, one of problems with Finale crashing right after installation can be solved by clearing all font caches (with a utility like OnyX) and restarting. I'm afraid a lot of people, unfortunately but understandably, got put off the entire program because of this initial problem with the font caches.


Vaughan

Finale 3.2 - 2014, Sibelius 4 - 7
Tobias Giesen's plugins, full version, Robert Patterson plugins, Dolet 6 plugin
MacOS 10.9
MacPro 6GB, MacBookPro (2011) 8GB
Kontakt 4.2

Amsterdam

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RV
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Total Posts : 173
 
   Posted 11/16/2013 9:04 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Vaughan said...
If RV is still following this thread, one of problems with Finale crashing right after installation can be solved by clearing all font caches (with a utility like OnyX) and restarting. I'm afraid a lot of people, unfortunately but understandably, got put off the entire program because of this initial problem with the font caches.


lol

- yes I'm still looking - at the moment, mostly because I think it's so silly… (The upgrade… I mean, and what people/fellow-users say about this…)

Hey; could somebody please take my side and explain why I shouldn't be able to use a "chosen" font to make my scores?
- why the He** doesn't my own fonts work properly in 2012? - is there ANY reason for this?
(That got my quite upset the last update… - understandable?)

Now; in 2014 "update" - I can't even START the friggin' thing anymore!
- I don't CARE if I "have to clean font cashes, UnInstall ALL my AU's, pickmynosewashmyclothesanddrinkabeer…"

THIS IS INSANE!

It is a MUSIC-Software. And it works a little bit with graphics too…
- could you PLEASE give me ONE example of another "new" software coming out, where one asks to do such silly things??
MakeMusic should bloody darn well learn NOT TO release a update unless IT WORKS!
Nobody gets happy like this!

(Now, OF COURSE, it can be so, that it's only MY computer that is completely messed up… Of course!
But, then again; how come ALL my OTHER (Music) Software work MORE than well?)


- lol lol lol lol
It's just history repeating…
I just remember how upset I was some year ago.. haha! Exactly the same!
(I must just admit - it's solely my stupidity to believe it would change… - sorry for this).


RV
iMac (12,1), 2,5GHz, 8Gb RAM
Finale 2012 c.r13 (2008 b r1, 2005, 2003, v.3, v.1.1)
Logic Pro 8
Lexicon i-ONIX FW810S
OS 10.5.8
OS 10.8.2

www.aenigma-edition.com

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Dr. Wiggy
Early music: modern methods



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   Posted 11/16/2013 9:53 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
RV said...

Hey; could somebody please take my side and explain why I shouldn't be able to use a "chosen" font to make my scores?
- why the He** doesn't my own fonts work properly in 2012? - is there ANY reason for this?
(That got my quite upset the last update… - understandable?)

Now; in 2014 "update" - I can't even START the friggin' thing anymore!.

Finale should (and does for the most part) work fine with any fonts you have. There are some bugs and issues, sure, but we don't know what your problem is at this time -- it could be nothing to do with Finale, for all we know.

If you look round forums of any software -- Photoshop, Logic, Office, anything -- you will find people complaining that it crashes immediately. Mostly, these things can be fixed on the computer itself. Occasionally, something needs to be updated.


"This is me helping."

Finale 2014, 2.6Ghz 2012 MacMini 16Gb RAM (10.9); 2009 MacBook
Edirol FA-66; M-Audio Oxygen 61; Yamaha PSR-410, HP Laserjet 5200 DTN
Ancient Groove Music www.ancientgroove.co.uk

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Christopher Smith
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   Posted 11/16/2013 3:34 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
There is a fonts sticky at the top of this forum addressing font problems with MacOS. I keep getting problems and I can't remember what to do, so I have to keep checking the sticky and performing the routines.


Christopher Smith

Mac 2 x 2 Ghz Dual-Core Intel Xeon
OSX 10.6.8
Finale 2011b and 2012c r.13
or
Mac iBook G4 733 Mhz
OSX 10.4.11
Finale 2010b r.1

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Dr. Wiggy
Early music: modern methods



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   Posted 11/16/2013 3:43 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Christopher Smith said...
There is a fonts sticky at the top of this forum addressing font problems with MacOS. I keep getting problems and I can't remember what to do, so I have to keep checking the sticky and performing the routines.

From what has been said on the forums here and my own experiences, Finale <sometimes> gets its font knickers in a twist when it installs. I've never had to re-empty the font cache again in the general running of Finale. Your experience is unusual and I would suggest possibly being caused by something else.

You're running 2010 on Tiger...?


"This is me helping."

Finale 2014, 2.6Ghz 2012 MacMini 16Gb RAM (10.9); 2009 MacBook
Edirol FA-66; M-Audio Oxygen 61; Yamaha PSR-410, HP Laserjet 5200 DTN
Ancient Groove Music www.ancientgroove.co.uk

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Stringman
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   Posted 11/24/2013 7:10 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I've been using Finale since 97. 2014 is the worst "upgrade" ever. I'm experiencing buyer remorse over such a waste of money. For me the most serious bugs are: 1. Simple entry- when i click on a line or space to place a note, the note is placed on the line or space below it. 1a. The mouse in simple entry is too jerky as it locks onto a line or space. 2. On the template page when opening a new document, the return key functions like the tab key allowing only one line of text per text box. 3. Overall slower productivity due to dealing with these issues. 4. Ugly interface by Mac standards (looks like an ugly windows interface- no offense windows users but Mac people like their eye candy). The Mac interface is getting uglier due to Maverick so this may not be a Finale issue.
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Dr. Wiggy
Early music: modern methods



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   Posted 11/24/2013 8:02 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Stringman said...
I've been using Finale since 97. 2014 is the worst "upgrade" ever. I'm experiencing buyer remorse over such a waste of money. For me the most serious bugs are: 1. Simple entry- when i click on a line or space to place a note, the note is placed on the line or space below it. 1a. The mouse in simple entry is too jerky as it locks onto a line or space. 2. On the template page when opening a new document, the return key functions like the tab key allowing only one line of text per text box. 3. Overall slower productivity due to dealing with these issues. 4. Ugly interface by Mac standards (looks like an ugly windows interface- no offense windows users but Mac people like their eye candy). The Mac interface is getting uglier due to Maverick so this may not be a Finale issue.

1. I don't have this issue. Simple Entry behaves as previously (except it's now much more responsive!). Submit a case to MM and maybe it can be fixed.
1a & 3. You'll be be MASSIVELY more productive if you use the computer keyboard to enter notes, rather than clicking in place with the mouse.
4. The interface shouldn't LOOK considerably different from 2012, but it's been re-written using more modern OS X code, rather than ancient code dating from Classic Mac days.


"This is me helping."

Finale 2014, 2.6Ghz 2012 MacMini 16Gb RAM (10.9); 2009 MacBook
Edirol FA-66; M-Audio Oxygen 61; Yamaha PSR-410, HP Laserjet 5200 DTN
Ancient Groove Music www.ancientgroove.co.uk

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Christopher Smith
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   Posted 11/24/2013 8:16 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Wiggy said...
Christopher Smith said...
There is a fonts sticky at the top of this forum addressing font problems with MacOS. I keep getting problems and I can't remember what to do, so I have to keep checking the sticky and performing the routines.

From what has been said on the forums here and my own experiences, Finale <sometimes> gets its font knickers in a twist when it installs. I've never had to re-empty the font cache again in the general running of Finale. Your experience is unusual and I would suggest possibly being caused by something else.

You're running 2010 on Tiger...?


I can't remember the cat names; I go by number. What's wrong with 2010 on 10.4? Actually, that's the system that hasn't given me any trouble; it's my bigger, newer computer running the latest Finale that messes up sometimes, usually after an update.


Christopher Smith

Mac 2 x 2 Ghz Dual-Core Intel Xeon
OSX 10.6.8
Finale 2011b and 2012c r.13
or
Mac iBook G4 733 Mhz
OSX 10.4.11
Finale 2010b r.1

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