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Posted By : Davidmorehead - 2/19/2014 10:02 AM

I just upgraded to 2014 (from 2010) because I didn't want to get too far behind in the upgrade cycle. If you wait too long it is hard to jump back in and get work done because there are so many new features added with each version.

I tried 2012 and it had a show stopping bug. My midi out would keep resetting to none every time I set it. Guess what? The same bug is in 2014! sad

Very sad. I guess I will be using 2010 until Makemusic gets this fixed. In the mean time, I will have to deal with notes sticking on and Finale occasionally shutting down up when I edit a drum part.

Time to contact them and request my money back. I really want to help the company and support them but I have to have a program that works.

I was going to try the 2014 trial version to check for the midi out resetting bug. I downloaded it a few months ago and opened the program briefly to have a look around. I forgot to check for this problem at that time. Then I got very busy with work and also writing a lot of charts (using 2010) so I didn't have time to thoroughly check 2014. I wish I had tested it more because now I will have to wait until they get around to refunding my money.

Makemusic knew about the midi out resetting to none bug. I saw a few threads on it and I also emailed them about it. They said there was no work around for it so I got my money back for 2012. Now I will have to get my money back for 2014. What a shame that they didn't fix this problem.

Finale 2010b
Sony Vaio Laptop-Windows 7-Core I7
TGTools Pro
Roland Sonic Cell
Finale user since 1990
http://DaveMorehead.com
http://davidmoreheadphotography.smugmug.com/
https://www.facebook.com/Dave.Morehead

Posted By : La Leyenda - 2/19/2014 10:08 AM

I know how you feel. But prepare for major backlash from the forum here, they'll have a field day. Hopefully Finale gets back on track sooner rather than later before more folks jump ship. Bugs persisting, lack of communication, cutting corners, taking extra time and still coming up short, the list goes on. But if you voice these concerns here, don't be surprised if people turn this around and somehow blame you for complaining lol.

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Posted By : Davidmorehead - 2/19/2014 10:21 AM

Thanks. I can take the heat. Haaa!! lol

I have upgraded for many years and I know Finale very well. This isn't user error. If I set my midi out to my Sonic Cell, it goes back to none as soon as I open midi setup again. SAME BUG THAT WAS IN 2012. I got a refund back then and now I will get my money back again. Other people have had this problem too. It isn't just me.

When I found this bug in Finale 2012 and I emailed tech support about it. They told they knew about the problem and then they said there was no solution for this problem at that time. I thought for sure they would have fixed it by 2014. They didn't. What a shame.

Back to 2010. Again.

Post Edited (Davidmorehead) : 2/20/2014 4:02:22 AM (GMT-6)

Posted By : Davidmorehead - 2/19/2014 10:34 AM

Here is the answer I got when I reported this bug two years ago.

"There is a known issue in Finale 2012 on certain Windows computers where the device selected for output in the MIDI Setup window is consistently reset on playback. At this time, this issue appears to be limited to computers running the Windows 7 Operating System.

Our development team is aware of the issue and is currently investigating solutions."

Looks like they never found a solution.

Posted By : La Leyenda - 2/19/2014 10:38 AM

That MIDI bug has been a problem for me since I can remember. And I've worked with Finale on many computers, using many different MIDI interfaces and gear. It's not due to "certain" anything LOL - it's a FINALE problem and only Finale. Windows 7 and 8 and probably all future versions too will have this. Yay!!

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Posted By : Davidmorehead - 2/19/2014 10:49 AM

I will keep trying each new version. If the problem persists they will never get any more money from me. I can't use a program that won't retain my midi out setting.

Posted By : Bill Reed - 2/19/2014 10:49 AM

From other discussion of this bug, my understanding is that despite not displaying correctly, your MIDI configuration will in fact work correctly.

Finale 2014 (Fingers Crossed), Notion 4, Overture 4, Cubase 7.5

Win8 x64, 32GB RAM

M-Audio ProFire 2626

Kontakt, VSL, VE Pro, EWQL Orch, Choir and Pianos

Posted By : La Leyenda - 2/19/2014 10:49 AM

False.

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Posted By : Charles Lawrence - 2/19/2014 11:23 AM

No Ms. Leyenda and Davidmorehead,

The MIDI device out bug is merely a cosmetic issue. As Bill and others on this forum, including myself have reported on more than one occasion, even though the MIDI out device gets reset to (None), you should find that actual MIDI out data is correctly routed to the selected device. This is my experience with F2012 on Win7. Have you actually tried it? The bug no longer manifests itself, for me at least, on F2014 on Win7.

"Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about!"

Dell XPS 600, GenuineIntel Intel(R) Pentium(R) D CPU 3.00GHz [Intel64 Family 15 Model 4 Stepping 4] (2 processors)
8GB Ram
HT Omega Striker 7.1
MSI N430GT 2GB GPU
1TB x 4 internal HD's
Microsoft Windows 7 Ultimate x64 Edition, (06.01.7600.00)
Finale versions: 2011b.r2, 2012c.r13, 2014a.v3535

GPO4

"There is a world of difference between a person who has a big problem and a person who makes a problem big." – John Maxwell

Posted By : La Leyenda - 2/19/2014 11:49 AM

False. This bug is not cosmetic only on Windows 8 64bit. It's constant. 1000% certain.

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Posted By : Zuill - 2/19/2014 12:40 PM

I don't have the problem either.

Zuill

"When all is said and done, more is said than done."

Finale 2002b, 2003a, 2004b, 2005b, Win XP SP3, 2011b Win 7 64bit, 2012a Bought and Paid For (Hopefully soon 2012b with some of the MAJOR BUGS fixed--well, now with 2012b and some of the bugs are fixed) 2012c, with some bug fixes. 2014 now.

Favorite Forum quote: "Please, everybody, IGNORE THE TROLL!"

Posted By : Vaughan - 2/19/2014 12:44 PM

Does that make you a fanboi?

Vaughan

Finale 3.2 - 2014, Sibelius 4 - 7
Tobias Giesen's plugins, full version, Robert Patterson plugins, Dolet 6 plugin
MacOS 10.9
MacPro 6GB, MacBookPro (2011) 8GB
Kontakt 4.2

Amsterdam

Posted By : Zuill - 2/19/2014 1:19 PM

Possibly. But I walk softly and carry a BIG stick.

Zuill

"When all is said and done, more is said than done."

Favorite Forum quote: "Please, everybody, IGNORE THE TROLL!"

Posted By : Dr. Wiggy - 2/19/2014 1:50 PM

It's likely/possible that the bug only manifests itself with particular combinations of hardware, settings, +/- Windows OS version.

Not necessarily much help if your combination is affected. There have always been lots of bugs in Finale, but the number of "dealbreakers" seems to be quite large, currently.

"This is me helping."

Finale 2014, 2012 MacMini; 2012 MacBook Pro (10.9)
Edirol FA-66; M-Audio Oxygen 61; Yamaha PSR-410, HP Laserjet 5200 DTN
Ancient Groove Music www.ancientgroove.co.uk

Posted By : Charles Lawrence - 2/19/2014 2:00 PM

Ms. Leyenda,

Being a fanboi, apparently, I must again take exception to your categorically stating that "This bug is not cosmetic only on Windows 8 64bit. It's constant. 1000% certain." I have F2014a running on a Win8.1 64bit platform and do not have the problem. Believe me, I do not for an instant doubt that you are experiencing the problem you state, but it must be a configuration issue for you, and others, and not a bug in the program, because I, and others, are not having the problem on F2014a either on Win7/64 or Win8.1/64. I continue to have the problem on F2012 running on Win7/64, but again for me, it is cosmetic only, in that the MIDI out data is indeed routed to the correct out device, even though the selection shows as (none) if you revisit the MIDI setup dialog after having set the MIDI out device once before. It is still my contention as a professional engineer with over 35 years of computer programming experience in all sorts of programming languages, that if not everyone has the problem, then it cannot, by definition, be a bug in the program, but it must be a configuration issue. I will have nothing further to say on this particular issue.

"Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about!"

GPO4

"There is a world of difference between a person who has a big problem and a person who makes a problem big." – John Maxwell

Posted By : Mircea - 2/19/2014 2:57 PM

Maybe someone looked at this but:

- are the settings are working OK until a restart of Finale?

If so, try starting Finale with "Run as Administrator" and set them, and then restart Finale. It might just be one of those Win7-Win8 security issues where it doesn't allow rewrites of some files (as with the activation).

„E tot ce va spun!”

Finale 2014
Win8.1 64Bit, i7-4770k, 8GB RAM, Asus Xonar Xense Audio card, etc - a good powerful PC.

Posted By : La Leyenda - 2/19/2014 4:47 PM

Mircea said...
Maybe someone looked at this but:

- are the settings are working OK until a restart of Finale?

If so, try starting Finale with "Run as Administrator" and set them, and then restart Finale. It might just be one of those Win7-Win8 security issues where it doesn't allow rewrites of some files (as with the activation).

I've always run Finale as admin but I still have an issue where MIDI is not remembered. The permissions thing did however save my skin with the Enigma debacle error, but that's about it. Though I am glad to see some forum adminning going on here.

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Posted By : Erin Vork - 2/19/2014 4:49 PM

I want to bring this thread back on track (I've removed some posts that were inappropriate) and talk about the OP's issue.

David: I'm sorry that this is still a problem for you. We have had reports of this, but as Bill and Charles indicate, it manifests in different ways and often doesn't manifest at all. The big problem here is that we have not been able to reproduce this issue in-house, but we do know more about it than we did when you first ran into it. Here's what I can tell you:

Finale seems to be having a problem with writing to a particular preference file (FINMIDI.ini). I've had some success with manually editing this file to add the name of the MIDI Out device. That seems to hold the settings until the next time you open MIDI/Audio > MIDI Setup (opening that dialog box will again destroy the MIDI out settings). PM me if you'd like the steps for doing this.

By any chance do you have more than one MIDI out device that you could test this on?

I understand if this is more than you want to deal with. We will certainly offer you a refund if that's what you'd prefer.

Erin Vork
Notation and Garritan Product Specialist
Technical Support
MakeMusic, Inc.

Need technical help? Click here to submit a support case.

Posted By : Ebony Ivory - 2/19/2014 6:38 PM

Davidmorehead said...
I just upgraded to 2014 (from 2010) because I didn't want to get too far behind in the upgrade cycle. If you wait too long it is hard to jump back in and get work done because there are so many new features added with each version.</div>
I tried 2012 and it had a show stopping bug. My midi out would keep resetting to none every time I set it. Guess what? The same bug is in 2014!

Very sad. I guess I will be using 2010 until Makemusic gets this fixed. In the mean time, I will have to deal with notes sticking on and Finale occasionally shutting down up when I edit a drum part.

Time to contact them and request my money back. I really want to help the company and support them but I have to have a program that works.

I was going to try the 2014 trial version to check for the midi out resetting bug. I downloaded it a few months ago and opened the program briefly to have a look around. I forgot to check for this problem at that time. Then I got very busy with work and also writing a lot of charts (using 2010) so I didn't have time to thoroughly check 2014. I wish I had tested it more because now I will have to wait until they get around to refunding my money.

Makemusic knew about the midi out resetting to none bug. I saw a few threads on it and I also emailed them about it. They said there was no work around for it so I got my money back for 2012. Now I will have to get my money back for 2014. What a shame that they didn't fix this problem.

Hate to mention it again - 'cos you can all read my sig - but Finale 2005 continues to let me write the music I want, and print it, share it, record it, etc ... and the majority of niggles I have (all of which I now know about and how to work round them) have YET to be fixed even in the nine-years-later Finale 2014.

I hang around here in the hope that ONE day these elementary shortcomings will be fixed - but until then, my heart-felt recommendation is that if any given version of Finale does what you need in order to write your music, STICK WITH IT.

Brian

Posted By : Derrek - 2/19/2014 6:41 PM

Erin, thank you.

Finale 2014 - Windows 7
GPO 4, JABB 3, World Instruments
TG Tools Full, (Sonar X3 Producer)

“Outside of a dog, a book is a man’s best friend. Inside of a dog it’s too dark to read.” — Groucho Marx

Posted By : Ebony Ivory - 2/19/2014 6:42 PM

PS - Finale 2005b (for Windows) is also working a treat on my MacBook Pro in OS/X Mountain Lion, thanks to VMware Fusion!

Brian

Posted By : Derrek - 2/19/2014 6:49 PM

Brian, I'm glad you have a solution that works for you, especially since you clearly depend on predictable software professionally. At the same time I hope MM comes out (eventually) with a version of Finale that does indeed correct the flaws you have mentioned in earlier posts.

But I also know that you have computer skills above and beyond what most have and that these can help you deal with the possible hurtles some might encounter running older software on older machines or OS's.

I am happy with F2014 even though I envy you what I consider a more transparent system for dealing with percussion that F2005 possessed.

Posted By : BobRock - 2/19/2014 10:38 PM

Derrek said...
Brian, I'm glad you have a solution that works for you, especially since you clearly depend on predictable software professionally. At the same time I hope MM comes out (eventually) with a version of Finale that does indeed correct the flaws you have mentioned in earlier posts.

But I also know that you have computer skills above and beyond what most have and that these can help you deal with the possible hurtles some might encounter running older software on older machines or OS's.

I am happy with F2014 even though I envy you what I consider a more transparent system for dealing with percussion that F2005 possessed.

Just wondering - what is actually "predictable" software? If I buy a car, does it mean that I clearly depend on predictable cars if it turns right when I steer right?

Posted By : ebiggs1 - 2/19/2014 10:47 PM

Mr. Morehead I don't know how big a turn off the midi thing is for you, as I don't see it either. But the new hairpins and the combine rests features in 2014a are worth the price of admission alone.
I wouldn't give up on it too soon.
EB

Music makes the difference!
Finale 3 - Finale 2014a
Dell XPS 8500 Intel Core i7 CPU @ 3.40GHz
16 GB RAM, 64 bit OS WIN 8.1

Post Edited (ebiggs1) : 2/19/2014 8:50:38 PM (GMT-6)

Posted By : Davidmorehead - 2/20/2014 5:45 AM

ebiggs1 said...
Mr. Morehead I don't know how big a turn off the midi thing is for you, as I don't see it either. But the new hairpins and the combine rests features in 2014a are worth the price of admission alone.
I wouldn't give up on it too soon.
EB

I would love to use 2014 but I can't if it won't retain my midi setting. I need to use my Roland Sonic Cell sound module.

Thankfully, I can combine rests with TGtools pro. I would love smarter hairpins. I hope Makemusic finds a solution to this problem soon.

Posted By : Davidmorehead - 2/20/2014 6:01 AM

Erin Vork said...

I want to bring this thread back on track (I've removed some posts that were inappropriate) and talk about the OP's issue.

David: I'm sorry that this is still a problem for you. We have had reports of this, but as Bill and Charles indicate, it manifests in different ways and often doesn't manifest at all. The big problem here is that we have not been able to reproduce this issue in-house, but we do know more about it than we did when you first ran into it. Here's what I can tell you:

Finale seems to be having a problem with writing to a particular preference file (FINMIDI.ini). I've had some success with manually editing this file to add the name of the MIDI Out device. That seems to hold the settings until the next time you open MIDI/Audio > MIDI Setup (opening that dialog box will again destroy the MIDI out settings). PM me if you'd like the steps for doing this.

By any chance do you have more than one MIDI out device that you could test this on?

I understand if this is more than you want to deal with. We will certainly offer you a refund if that's what you'd prefer.

Hi Erin,

Thank you for the info. I appreciate your honesty and your willingness to help me. I think I will stick with 2010 until this problems gets fixed. I love 2010. I just have to read how to get rid of the stuck notes issue when using speedy entry. I know I have seen the answer somewhere here on the forum. I am going to do a search for it later.

Unfortunately, I don't have any other midi devices to see if the midi-out-resetting-to-none problem only happens with my Roland Sonic Cell.

Post Edited (Davidmorehead) : 9/12/2014 12:16:36 PM (GMT-5)

Posted By : Davidmorehead - 2/20/2014 6:04 AM

I will try that. Thanks.

Posted By : nordensten - 2/20/2014 11:13 AM

It seems obvious that this problem comes in several flavours... On my main workhorse, a Win7/64bit system, neither Finale 2012c nor 2014a will retain any MIDI OUT settings. The setting works for the current session, but as soon as "Midi Setup..." is opened again it has been reset to (none). If the file is saved and reopened, all settings are lost (reset to (none)). This is 100(0)% predictable and whether run as admin or not has no influence on this.

I just installed 2014a on a brand new Win8.1/64bit machine, and there is no problem with Midi Out whatsoever... all settings are retained as expected.

So, the problem is not with Finale alone, it is Finale in combination with something going on on certain Win7 machines. Now, for any music application, problems with Midi settings are serious issues, and merely being aware of these problems should prompt the developer to look into it. Makemusic could start with the fact that Finale 2011 does not produce these problems on any system I am aware of, at least. They must have a basic idea of how Midi configuration changed from 2011 to 2012, and investigate from there.

If issues like these had presented themselves in VSL og Steinberg software, a fix would be available within weeks/months rather than years/decennia...

(Finale 1.0 (1988) ->) 2012c (on Win since 1997)
(Sibelius (Acorn) -> Sibelius 7 (Win) - Notion 4 (Win))
Hauptwerk 4 - Cubase 7 - Vienna Ensemble Pro/MIR
assorted VSL instruments - assorded Spitfire Audio instruments - assorted HW organs
Multiple Windows computers W7/W8/i7/32GB

Posted By : heinzfan - 2/20/2014 12:04 PM

Just my 2 cents. I have Win7-64bit and haven't experienced the described problem in version 2012 or 2014.

Posted By : Flint - 2/20/2014 12:20 PM

Davidmorehead said...

I just have to read how to get rid of the stuck notes issue when using speedy entry.

I haven't had a single stuck note using 2014.

woodwind specialist and doubler - Finale 2014 using Speedy Entry - no capslock, GPO 4 Full, Garritan Jazz & Big Band 3, Garritan Concert and Marching Band 2, Windows 8 64-bit, 12GB RAM

If the composer says in effect to the performer: "I do not care whether you perform my music or not," we cannot argue the matter. But if he indicates: "I want you to perform and respond to this music," then his fundamental duty is to write his music so that it is accessible to interpretation. When the performer cannot approach the composer's meaning because of capriciously obscure notation, he may in effect say to the composer: "Why should I bother to puzzle out your music?" - Gardner Read

Posted By : Ron. - 2/20/2014 12:29 PM

I've never had a stuck note from Finale 2012 - F2014 inclusive, nor have I ever had to tinker with midi out. (I wouldn't know what to do with it in any case; everything works, so that's good enough for me.) While we're on the subject, there have been numerous posts about tinkering with Human Playback. I never touch it and it works the way it is supposed to--always has. This has been on many different computers and operating systems over the years, as well as various sound cards. I do sympathize with those having problems but it has always puzzled me some. Just lucky, I guess. Could it be because I use simple entry (being unable to remember complicated keystroke combinations)? Just saying.

Finale 2014 with Garritan Personal Orchestra 4.0.
JABB 3 and Concert & Marching Band 2.
Steinway: basic. Garritan's Instant Orchestra.
Garritan World Instruments. TGTools Pro
Windows 7 Home Edition, AMD FX-8100 8-Core Processor, 10 GB RAM
onboard Beats Audio sound card

Administrator, The Compose Forums
Specializing in contemporary art music

Posted By : Davidmorehead - 2/21/2014 9:40 AM

Flint said...

Davidmorehead said...

I just have to read how to get rid of the stuck notes issue when using speedy entry.

I haven't had a single stuck note using 2014.

I think was referring to 2010 in the post you got this from. I was saying how much I like 2010. The only problem was sticking notes.

Just for fun, I tried entering notes very quickly in 2014 to see if I could get some notes to stick. Eventually, I got some notes that stuck on.

Back to finding a solution to get rid of stuck notes in 2010. Looks I will will be using it for at least 2 more years.

Posted By : ttw - 2/21/2014 4:17 PM

I sent MM a trouble report for the stuck notes. I have had the problem in 2011 and 2012. I rarely (if ever) get the stuck note in 2014. It's much better in that respect. (Sometimes I may get a note stuck if I interrupt playback under some circumstances. However, the stuck note ends. In 2012, I would get the stuck note during note entry.)

Finale 2011b & Finale 2012c & 2014</div>
GWI, GPO 4, JABB 3, Steinway Basic, COMB2

Windows 8.1 Dell XPS 8770

Finale 2011b & Finale 2012c & 2014

GWI, GPO 4, JABB 3, Steinway Basic, COMB2

Windows 7 Professional HP Pavillion dv7 Notebook

Posted By : Motet - 2/21/2014 9:48 PM

The stuck MIDI notes are likely a timing issue. Timing varies from CPU to CPU, driver to driver, and MIDI hardware to MIDI hardware, so I don't think it's much of a mystery that some people experience it and some don't.

Finale 2011b, 2005, TGTools
Windows XP

Posted By : Davidmorehead - 9/11/2014 2:10 AM

Ebony Ivory said...

Brian, I always resort back to 2010 because I really like that chords don't have to be attached to a note or rest and I also like smart rehearsal letters. These are two things I can't live without and I think they started in 2010.

Posted By : Davidmorehead - 9/11/2014 2:14 AM

Flint said...

Davidmorehead said...

I just have to read how to get rid of the stuck notes issue when using speedy entry.

I haven't had a single stuck note using 2014.

Lucky you. It is a big problem in 2010 and I can't upgrade due to a bug that Makemusic hasn't been able to fix on my setup.

Posted By : Ebony Ivory - 9/11/2014 5:42 AM

David, I am in the midst of a serious project orchestrating about 15 musical numbers of very different genres, for an upcoming charity concert. The ONE feature (that arrived with Finale 2006) that I miss in 2005b, is the ability to have an organic tempo track. I need to make rehearsal tracks for my singers, who will be coming from all parts of the country, and it takes forever to pepper 2005 with (hidden) tempo markings.

FWIW, I don't think Tempo Tap (Fin 2006 onwards) is particularly good, but it's better than nothing. Or I suppose I could just save my scores as MIDI, and put them into Logic Pro X to create the rehearsal tracks.

But the actual printed music (for my band) looks superb, as it always has done with Finale and all my own personal house-style tweaks.

Brian

Posted By : Peter West - 9/11/2014 3:56 PM

Herein is illustrated a big problem with assessing Finale. For me this is the one thing I really hate about 2014. I dislike 2012 because they did away with optimisation that allows individual editing and positioning of group names, but I can tolerate the hours I have to spend working around that when I must work in 2012, but I will not use Finale 2014 because it has the issues I mentioned in 2012 AND these damned awful smart shapes.

Just my opinion, others may differ.

Peter
Music Publishing Services

*********************
Mac 2.66GHz Intel Quad, 4GB RAM /OSX.7.5 /30 inch cinema display+20 inch Cinema Display
Finale 2008 2009 2010 2011 2012 2014/Logic Pro Studio

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