The original version of this page can be found at : http://forum.makemusic.com/default.aspx?f=5&m=443353
Posted By : Joseph. - 11/29/2014 10:47 PM
Simple. I use TG Tools (full version, though I'm not sure it matters) to make a new hotkey for the Staff Tool. Using TGTools > Options. I require shift+ctrl+f, though I doubt that matters. Select it for menu shortcut. Then I make the menu shortcut Tools > Staff. I use this to simple reposition things in the final stages, which is all the time. Every time I hit this hotkey, instead of simply selecting the Staff Tool, it makes that box for "new blank staves" appear, then I have to exit out of it each time. Is this a TGTools problem? Anyone else have this?


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Posted By : Zuill - 11/29/2014 11:23 PM
When I try to create a shortcut to just the Staff Tool, I get a pop-up saying it needs a selection from the Staff Tool Menu. So, I am not sure how you got past this pop-up.

Zuill


"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
 
Finale 2002b, 2003a, 2004b, 2005b, Win XP SP3, 2011b Win 7 64bit, 2012a Bought and Paid For (Hopefully soon 2012b with some of the MAJOR BUGS fixed--well, now with 2012b and some of the bugs are fixed) 2012c, with some bug fixes. 2014c at present.
Favorite Forum quote: "Please, everybody, IGNORE THE TROLL!"


Posted By : Motet - 11/30/2014 4:09 AM
There may be a difference between the full version and the lite version of the keyboard remapper. With the full version you can map a key to a tool. With the full version installed, I can't look at the lite version.

I can define Shft-Ctrl-F to be the Staff tool, but it doesn't work. But F9, which I've used for years, does.

You can also program a function key to a tool without involving TGTools. Switch to a tool, then type Shift+Fx (F2 to F12) to program function key Fx to that tool.


Finale 2011b, 2005, TGTools
Windows 7, USB Keystation 61


Posted By : David Ward - 11/30/2014 4:34 AM
FWIW I have a similar problem on various Macs with the shortcut I have assigned in System Preferences for the Staff Tool: I too get the New Staves window and have to hit 'esc' to get rid of it.


David Ward
www.composers-uk.com/davidward

Finale 2014c with Mac 10.9.5
Finale 2010b with Mac 10.6.8
full TGTools

Since 2001 have used F 2001, 2003, 2007, 2009, 2010, 2014


Posted By : Zuill - 11/30/2014 10:48 AM
Okay. I was able to program that a different way, and did get the same result.

In Windows, press alt, then T then F and you will get the Staff Tool. So, not really more work.

Zuill


"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
 
Finale 2002b, 2003a, 2004b, 2005b, Win XP SP3, 2011b Win 7 64bit, 2012a Bought and Paid For (Hopefully soon 2012b with some of the MAJOR BUGS fixed--well, now with 2012b and some of the bugs are fixed) 2012c, with some bug fixes. 2014c at present.
Favorite Forum quote: "Please, everybody, IGNORE THE TROLL!"


Posted By : Charles Lawrence - 11/30/2014 11:09 AM
I think this is a bug in TGTools, because you can define a hotkey, including CTRL-SHIFT-F, to select a tool, but defining it as the Staff Tool brings up the "New Blank Staves" dialog, which it should not do.  Defining other tools just selects the tool, as it should do.
 
The function key shortcut works as Motet points out, but I think it is only temporary for the Finale session.  As Zuill points out, the built in Windows shortcut for selecting the Staff Tool is ALT-t-f (case insignificant).  This keystroke sequence can be programmed into a hotkey by other 3rd party utilities, such as AutoHotKey.


"Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about!"

 

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Finale versions: 2011b.r2, 2012c.r13, 2014c.v4876

GPO4

 

"There is a world of difference between a person who has a big problem and a person who makes a problem big." – John Maxwell


Posted By : Joseph. - 11/30/2014 11:18 AM
I think I may just use autohotkey to route it to ctrl+shift+f. I use AHK already to make spacebar equal to ctrl+shift (and a mouse button to toggle the script on/off). Getting more elaborate...


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Posted By : Motet - 11/30/2014 1:14 PM
I guess this broke sometime after 2011. Another reason not to upgrade. I'm surprised that the Finale Shift+Fx programming isn't remembered. Are you sure, Charles?

For me, Alt,T,F wouldn't be acceptable. Perhaps Finalescript would work for those not brave enough for Autohotkey.


Finale 2011b, 2005, TGTools
Windows 7, USB Keystation 61


Posted By : Motet - 11/30/2014 1:40 PM
OK, as with metatools, the Shift+Fx settings are saved per-document. Seems like the best solution to me.


Finale 2011b, 2005, TGTools
Windows 7, USB Keystation 61

Post Edited (Motet) : 11/30/2014 11:43:54 AM (GMT-6)


Posted By : Charles Lawrence - 11/30/2014 1:44 PM

Motet,

The Fn programming appears to go along with the document.  Close the document, or open another document, and the Fn programming is gone.  Reopen a document saved with Fn programming and it comes back.

TGTools doesn't support setting up ALT sequences, so AHK or something similar is the only way to get a single stroke hotkey to emulate an ALT sequence.  When setting up a TGTools hotkey for "Tool -> Staff", you do not have to select a submenu, however the hotkey does bring up the 1st submenu, "New Blank Staves".  This seems to me to be an error.

[PS]  I see you discovered the same thing with the Fn programming.  I agree that being document specific is the best way.


"Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about!"

 

Dell XPS 600, GenuineIntel Intel(R) Pentium(R) D CPU 3.00GHz [Intel64 Family 15 Model 4 Stepping 4] (2 processors)
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Finale versions: 2011b.r2, 2012c.r13, 2014c.v4876

GPO4

 

"There is a world of difference between a person who has a big problem and a person who makes a problem big." – John Maxwell


Posted By : Motet - 11/30/2014 2:23 PM
I didn't mean that it being document-specific was for the best--I've never liked the fact that metatools are per-document--but rather that Shift+Fx is the easiest way to program a key to bring up a tool given that the TGTools way is apparently broken in 2014.


Finale 2011b, 2005, TGTools
Windows 7, USB Keystation 61

Post Edited (Motet) : 11/30/2014 12:26:09 PM (GMT-6)


Posted By : Zuill - 11/30/2014 3:25 PM
Okay. Now I realize what the weak link is here. Program F or Shift-F, and you're fine. Ctrl-Shift-F however causes the New Staff box to pop up. So, create a shortcut without the Ctrl.

Zuill

P.S.: By the way, this TG Tools bug is not new to 2014. I just tested 2011 and it shows the same errant behavior with Ctrl-Shift-F.


"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
 
Finale 2002b, 2003a, 2004b, 2005b, Win XP SP3, 2011b Win 7 64bit, 2012a Bought and Paid For (Hopefully soon 2012b with some of the MAJOR BUGS fixed--well, now with 2012b and some of the bugs are fixed) 2012c, with some bug fixes. 2014c at present.
Favorite Forum quote: "Please, everybody, IGNORE THE TROLL!"

Post Edited (Zuill) : 11/30/2014 1:35:27 PM (GMT-6)


Posted By : Zuill - 11/30/2014 3:40 PM
Motet said...
I didn't mean that it being document-specific was for the best--I've never liked the fact that metatools are per-document--but rather that Shift+Fx is the easiest way to program a key to bring up a tool given that the TGTools way is apparently broken in 2014.
This is also broken in 2011. I just tested it, and Ctrl-Shift-F brings up the Add a Staff box, just as in 2014. The Ctrl key is the bad link in the chain. Take that out and the Staff Tool gets selected without that menu item popping up.
 
Zuill


"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
 
Finale 2002b, 2003a, 2004b, 2005b, Win XP SP3, 2011b Win 7 64bit, 2012a Bought and Paid For (Hopefully soon 2012b with some of the MAJOR BUGS fixed--well, now with 2012b and some of the bugs are fixed) 2012c, with some bug fixes. 2014c at present.
Favorite Forum quote: "Please, everybody, IGNORE THE TROLL!"


Posted By : Motet - 11/30/2014 4:27 PM
Thanks for clearing it up. But when I tried it in 2011, for some reason, Ctrl-Shift-F did nothing at all. For me, pressing three keys is not much of a shortcut, I have to say, so I've never run across the problem.


Finale 2011b, 2005, TGTools
Windows 7, USB Keystation 61


Posted By : Joseph. - 11/30/2014 10:18 PM
OK, I redid all of my hotkeys and made this elaborate auothotkey script so that it keeps my grid, but instead of making shift do ctrl+shift + the hotkey = tgtools shortcut, it bypasses tgtools and only uses the alt sequences. When I double tap f, for example, it sends alt T F. It works great. ONLY ONE THING. When I enter an articulation (or anything really), then double tap RR (which is wired to bring up the select tool), it does like an undo and what I just entered disappears... by hitting RR. Here we go again. Can't I have my cake and eat it for once in this program...>!?!?!?!?!?!?!


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Posted By : Joseph. - 11/30/2014 10:29 PM
Apparently, if you hit a key twice while an expression is selected, it just jumps it to that metatool. In my case, hilighting a mf and hitting r twice would change it to a ritard.... Incredibly frustrating. Maybe there is a way to disable this...?

From Finale site:
Double-press the desired Metatool key. The expression changes to the definition assigned to the Metatool key you used. (A “double-press” simply means pressing the keystroke twice in rapid succession).

I tried even adding an escape send right before the sequence so that it would unselect whichever tool you were on and switch tools before finale had a chance to recognize the double press, but unfortunately, finale beats ahk to the punch.


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Post Edited (jsphweid) : 11/30/2014 8:33:44 PM (GMT-6)


Posted By : Motet - 12/1/2014 2:56 AM
So are you using Autohotkey to look for two quick keypresses in succession and then spit out the proper Alt sequence? If so, why is Finale even seeing the double characters? But doesn't such a scheme render such defined keys sluggish? Seems like you'd have to wait after the first press a little while to see if's the beginning of a double press before passing it along. Honestly, the function keys work fine for this purpose and are a lot simpler than what you're doing.


Finale 2011b, 2005, TGTools
Windows 7, USB Keystation 61

Post Edited (Motet) : 12/1/2014 1:00:48 AM (GMT-6)


Posted By : Zuill - 12/1/2014 3:12 AM
I guess I have never really had a need for so many shortcuts. I would have a hard time memorizing them. I have just a few and sometimes even those I forget. To each his own.

Zuill


"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
 
Finale 2002b, 2003a, 2004b, 2005b, Win XP SP3, 2011b Win 7 64bit, 2012a Bought and Paid For (Hopefully soon 2012b with some of the MAJOR BUGS fixed--well, now with 2012b and some of the bugs are fixed) 2012c, with some bug fixes. 2014c at present.
Favorite Forum quote: "Please, everybody, IGNORE THE TROLL!"


Posted By : Joseph. - 12/1/2014 8:57 AM
Yeah, it's extremely fast. I don't have a lot of hotkeys, just a few, but I want them organized simply and fit ergonomically so I've been changing them recently. AHK does all the work. All I have to do is press RR and I'm at the selection tool. ZZ and I'm at canonic utilities. WW and I'm at expression tool. I have a little picture to remind me (attached). The problem is that finale has some native double press functionality, which I'm surprised by, that changes a highlighted expression to another expression. Example, if I highlight a mf and hit RR, it changes it to a rit. So if I'm flying through entering dynamics and all of a sudden I want to hit RR to switch to the selection tool because I want to do another task like copy/paste or move something around, it's going to switch the expression I just entered to ritard first every time. Which is annoying. I get around this by clicking in the white area first. But it is still annoying.

Anyways, I'm working to make a more enriched AHK interface that has menus and everything that functions a new, easy hotkey set (it is visual), but also fast and a way of navigating finale ergonomically with only left hand to redistribute left and right hand workloads. Computing where you only use your right hand 95% is extremely inefficient. Aiming for 50/50.


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Posted By : Charles Lawrence - 12/1/2014 11:15 AM

jsphweid,

I'd like to study your AHK script.  Could you post it?  I've made many AHK scripts for Finale related hotkeys myself, including selecting tools, like you are doing, zooming using CTRL-mouse wheel, and scrolling in scroll view using the arrow keys, not mouse clicks.


"Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about!"

 

Dell XPS 600, GenuineIntel Intel(R) Pentium(R) D CPU 3.00GHz [Intel64 Family 15 Model 4 Stepping 4] (2 processors)
8GB Ram
HT Omega Striker 7.1
MSI N430GT 2GB GPU
2 2TB and 2 4TB internal SATA HD's

Microsoft Windows 7 Ultimate x64 Edition, (06.01.7600.00)
Finale versions: 2011b.r2, 2012c.r13, 2014c.v4876

GPO4

 

"There is a world of difference between a person who has a big problem and a person who makes a problem big." – John Maxwell


Posted By : Joseph. - 12/1/2014 11:35 AM
You can sees it as it works now. But this is a primitive version.

It only works when compiled to an .exe, so you'll have to do that...

Then, I just save it on the desktop and I have my side mouse button link to start the file. If the program is already running and the side button is clicked, then it closes itself. So the side button functions as a fast toggle (a good portion of the script is dedicated to this function, which I stole).

I also have a scrolling feature that reroutes f2 and f3 to be left-right scrolls (rebinding finale's native ctrl+page up/down). I prefer f2/f3 as opposed to arrow keys because it fits under the hand.

Use the image as a reference, in my previous post. Be warned that switching to another tool from simple entry (which I only use to edit guitar tabs) make odd things happen, best to double tap esc to exit out of that one. Also, as I've said, going from expression to another tool will change your last inputted expression, if it is selected (best just to click somewhere then switch).

Obviously grab isn't very useful now that I added the scroll hotkeys, but I'll change it some time.

I think the next version will be a GUI that is activated by tab or something. It would be nice to make a native plug-in as opposed to AHK, but I'm a novice programmer, not a C++ wizard.


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Posted By : HBegun - 12/1/2014 1:36 PM
Pressing CTRL while clicking on the Staff tool button brings up the New Staves dialog box. (This is a built-in shortcut.) The same thing happens if you hold CTRL while selecting Tools>Staff menu item with the mouse. Apparently TG Tools is passing the keystrokes along when executing the remapping function (which could be a bug or just an unexpected consequence). The solution is to not use CTRL when remapping this tool. The Measure and Tuplet tools behave similarly.


Howard Begun
Finale 2014
Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit


Posted By : Motet - 12/1/2014 1:55 PM
jsphweid, I wonder if you're doing something wrong in Autohotkey. Finale shouldn't be seeing the doubled keys at all, as I said. Sounds like maybe you're generating the Alt sequence but letting the double keys pass through as well, which I'm sure can be avoided.

I work on a stretch of music at a time--enter all the notes, then all the slurs, then all the articulation, then all the expressions, then all the hairpins--so being able to cycle through those tools efficiently is helpful. Also, when formatting pages at the very end, I'm forever switching between Page Layout, Staff, and Selection tools. Which function key to hit is second nature by now.


Finale 2011b, 2005, TGTools
Windows 7, USB Keystation 61


Posted By : Joseph. - 12/1/2014 2:01 PM
Well, Finale is the active window, so of course it is going to get the hotkeys. I suppose Finale and AHK both receive the information at the same time and perform their designated commands. With a GUI interface, hitting Tab (or whatever) would make AHK the active window and no more interference would result.


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Posted By : Flint - 12/1/2014 3:09 PM
jsphweid said...
Yeah, it's extremely fast. I don't have a lot of hotkeys, just a few, but I want them organized simply and fit ergonomically so I've been changing them recently. AHK does all the work. All I have to do is press RR and I'm at the selection tool. ZZ and I'm at canonic utilities. WW and I'm at expression tool. I have a little picture to remind me (attached). The problem is that finale has some native double press functionality, which I'm surprised by, that changes a highlighted expression to another expression. Example, if I highlight a mf and hit RR, it changes it to a rit. So if I'm flying through entering dynamics and all of a sudden I want to hit RR to switch to the selection tool because I want to do another task like copy/paste or move something around, it's going to switch the expression I just entered to ritard first every time. Which is annoying. I get around this by clicking in the white area first. But it is still annoying.

Anyways, I'm working to make a more enriched AHK interface that has menus and everything that functions a new, easy hotkey set (it is visual), but also fast and a way of navigating finale ergonomically with only left hand to redistribute left and right hand workloads. Computing where you only use your right hand 95% is extremely inefficient. Aiming for 50/50.

Double-tapping keys is a feature allowing one to use metatools to quickly change entries.
 
If you are assigning the double-taps for other purposes, wouldn't it be easier to simply unprogram the metatools for those keys?


woodwind specialist and doubler - Finale 2014 using Speedy Entry - no capslock, GPO 4 Full, Garritan Jazz & Big Band 3, Garritan Concert and Marching Band 2, Windows 8 64-bit, 12GB RAM

If the composer says in effect to the performer: "I do not care whether you perform my music or not," we cannot argue the matter. But if he indicates: "I want you to perform and respond to this music," then his fundamental duty is to write his music so that it is accessible to interpretation. When the performer cannot approach the composer's meaning because of capriciously obscure notation, he may in effect say to the composer: "Why should I bother to puzzle out your music?" - Gardner Read


Posted By : Motet - 12/1/2014 3:24 PM
>Double-tapping keys is a feature allowing one to use metatools to quickly change entries.

A very useful feature!


Finale 2011b, 2005, TGTools
Windows 7, USB Keystation 61


Posted By : Motet - 12/1/2014 3:42 PM

if (A_PriorHotkey != A_ThisHotkey or A_TimeSincePriorHotkey > 400)
{
    Key := SubStr(A_ThisHotkey, 2)
    KeyWait, %Key%
    return
} else {
...


It looks like you tried to borrow something from an example in the documentation to detect doubled keys, but the example just notes that fact of the double-key press and passes the keys along anyway, rather than replacing the double key with something else, which I think is what you need to get Finale to do something else other than what it normally does. This is why you're getting metatools, odd behavior in simple entry, etc., etc. It has nothing to do with the active window. You also run a big risk of being somewhere in Finale where one of these keys does something you don't notice right away.

You can get Autohotkey to not pass the doubled key along. But since you need to wait and see if the same key appears again, there's no getting around introducing a delay into that key, which to me seems bad. But if you're willing to live with that, then using KeyWait with a timeout and testing the error level might work. This is pretty sophisticated stuff, though, so if you are a novice programmer as you said, you may be getting in over your head.

Single-key (unrepeated) macros don't have that issue, so you might want to go back to Ctrl-Alt-F or whatever it is you originally wanted. Autohotkey at least avoids the Ctrl-key bug of TGTools.


Finale 2011b, 2005, TGTools
Windows 7, USB Keystation 61

Post Edited (Motet) : 12/1/2014 1:58:34 PM (GMT-6)


Posted By : Joseph. - 12/1/2014 7:01 PM
Flint: I use and am very used to those metatools.

I've never actually used the feature. Maybe I will learn to find it useful.

I think I may try to upgrade the code. I was binding spacebar to ctrl+shift. Spacebar is an easier combo key. I guess I could just bind it to alt+shift or something with TGT. I'll live with it until I do another overhaul (once every few days at this point).


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Posted By : Motet - 12/1/2014 7:23 PM
I played with AutoHotKey a bit. It seems the Ctrl key issue is present there as well. The solution is to put in a small delay before sending the Alt sequence to Finale to switch to the tool. This works for me:

^+f:: ; Ctrl+Shift+F
sleep 200 ; wait 200 milliseconds
send !tf ; Alt+T F
return

You do have to pick up your hand(s) soon after pressing the keys.

So, you could go back to TGTools for all but the staff tool, then use the above for the staff tool. Or use the problem-free and easier-to-program-and-type function keys as I keep saying. :-)


Finale 2011b, 2005, TGTools
Windows 7, USB Keystation 61

Post Edited (Motet) : 12/1/2014 6:05:31 PM (GMT-6)


Posted By : Joseph. - 12/5/2014 2:29 PM
OK men. I spent almost all day learning more AHK and making this dream program. I released the first primitive version of it in Plug-In Development.

forum.makemusic.com/default.aspx?f=11&m=443005


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Post Edited (jsphweid) : 12/5/2014 1:55:31 PM (GMT-6)