The original version of this page can be found at : http://forum.makemusic.com/default.aspx?f=5&m=480044
Posted By : DaveC - 7/5/2016 12:20 PM
Hello. I've been entering piano fingering numbers one note at a time using the Articulation tool.
I've read about making this process faster with Metatools, which seem like macros.

But I need help learning how to use both together.
Also, I've added new articulations, but they don't seem to be there when I close the program and open them again.
I could use some hand-holding on this. Thanks in advance!

Posted By : Mike Rosen - 7/5/2016 12:23 PM
The important thing to remember is that new articulations are document-specific, unless you add them to you default doc or template.



Mike Rosen
www.specialmillwork.com

Bass with Choir of the Sound www.choirofthesound.org
Volunteer copyist (The Gang of Twelve) for the Barbershop Harmony Society
FINALE TIPS at www.specialmillwork.com/finale-tips-and-tricks/index.html

Finale 2014.5 on El Capitan
Simple Entry, QWERTY keyboard, numberpad. That's my system, and I'm stickin' to it.

"As a musician, he's a damn fine woodworker."


Posted By : DaveC - 7/5/2016 12:29 PM
That explains why the articulation wasn't visible. So for new songs, I have to put that articulation into the default or template document. But what about for old songs that I want to add a symbol to? Do I have to recreate it or can it be imported somehow?

Posted By : Motet - 7/5/2016 12:48 PM
The default document has piano fingerings with metatools built in, but you probably knew that.

To add your custom articulation to another, existing document, you can copy a measure containing the articulation from one document to the other, then delete what you've just created with the copy. The articulation remains. The metatool must be programmed manually.

Another thing you can do is make a copy of your document that has the fingerings, delete all the music from this copy, and delete all the articulation definitions except for your fingerings, then save this as a library. The library can then be loaded into your existing documents. (You don't really need to make a copy of the document first, as long as you remember to quit without saving the document!) I don't know think the metatool assignments are saved, though. You might have to program them for each document you import the library into.


Finale 2014.5, 2011b, 2005, TGTools
Windows 7, MIDI input
Finale Transposition Chart

Post Edited (Motet) : 7/5/2016 12:56:55 PM (GMT-5)


Posted By : DaveC - 7/5/2016 1:03 PM
Thank you, Mike and Motet that's very helpful.

Before I get started making my own macros, I'd like to ask if I understand the concept:

Part 1: I should probably decide what common fingerings I need to use for each hand and write them on a piece of paper, so that I can put them in some type of order, regarding the keys that will represent them.
Then, once they're in the default document, I should be able to attach one of these to an entire chord by just clicking the top note. The fingering will appear in the cluster I've created, associated to the single note, but moveable as an object on the page. Is that right?

Part 2: That will take care of my piano-only template (for just a piano grand staff). But when I want to do a sheet music template (1 vocal staff and a piano grand staff), I'll have to have another template. And that's when I'll need to use your technique for moving metatools from one document to another, right?

Posted By : HaraldS - 7/5/2016 1:07 PM
DaveC said...
I've been entering piano fingering numbers one note at a time using the Articulation tool. I've read about making this process faster with Metatools, which seem like macros. But I need help learning how to use both together.


Maybe this procedure helps; if you're used to it, it's quite fast:
- set up your fingerings as articulations or load a library
- program metatools: select the articulation tool and hit SHIFT-[key], then the articulation window opens and you can select the articulation to be placed on that key
- I recommend using the keys e.g. z x c v b for the numbers 1-5 as they don't interfere with the other simple entry functions, because...:
- now select simple entry, click the first note so it gets selected
- hit the asterisk on the number pad and afterwards one of the programmed keys. The fingering will be assigned to the active note
- navigate to other notes with the arrow keys

Harald


Finale 3.0-2014.5, german edition, Windows 7
lots of hardware synths/keys, Cubase 7 / trombonist, pianist, conductor / Recklinghausen, Germany


Posted By : DaveC - 7/5/2016 1:12 PM
That's VERY helpful, Harald. Thank you!

Posted By : DaveC - 7/5/2016 1:18 PM
I imagine I'm going to need a lot of hotkeys available to do all of the chord fingering combinations. 5 2 1, 5 3 1, 4 2 1, 5 3 2 1, 5 3 2 1-1, etc. then the same thing with the numbers reversed for the left hand. How do I know which are already reserved and how many are available? Are they all single-letter or single-number hot keys?

Posted By : Motet - 7/5/2016 1:28 PM
Even if they're in use, you can reuse them for your own purposes. In the articulation selection dialog, the metatools, if assigned, are shown in the upper-right corners of each articulation. It has to be a single key.

I don't think articulations apply to individual notes of a chord, so you don't need to click on the top note. Move the cursor over the chord until it change to a solid arrow with a note.

Rather than create all possible combinations, you could instead create 1-5 at each of three possible vertical levels, then apply one or more to each note. So 1-5 could be right above the note, Q-T could place 1-5 above another fingering number, and A-G could place 1-5 on top of those. Just an idea.


Finale 2014.5, 2011b, 2005, TGTools
Windows 7, MIDI input
Finale Transposition Chart


Posted By : DaveC - 7/5/2016 1:35 PM
Thanks, Motet. I understand your first two sentences perfectly. But you lost me on the 1-5 idea. I understand which hotkeys you mean. But can't any articulation be placed at any height and moved after it's placed?

Posted By : Motet - 7/5/2016 1:56 PM
Of course, but part of the advantage of a metatool is that it can place the articulation just right so that all you need do is click without then moving it. So if metatool 1 placed a "1" and metatool E placed a "3" higher up, you might be able to define them such that all you need do is press 1, click, press E, click, to get

3
1

Just an idea. I haven't tried it. You would accomplish this by fiddling with the vertical handle positionings in the definitions, I think.


Finale 2014.5, 2011b, 2005, TGTools
Windows 7, MIDI input
Finale Transposition Chart


Posted By : DaveC - 7/5/2016 2:25 PM
Excellent. Thanks all!

Posted By : DaveC - 7/5/2016 3:20 PM
How about an extra credit question? :)
Sometimes I like to use chord clusters on the piano, where my first finger (thumb) is required to play 2 keys at once. What is the proper or best way to show that as a fingering?

Posted By : Peter Thomsen - 7/6/2016 8:39 AM
DaveC said...
…Sometimes I like to use chord clusters on the piano, where my first finger (thumb) is required to play 2 keys at once. What is the proper or best way to show that as a fingering?

You could add a bracket to the 1.

To create an articulation that combines items, create the articulation as a shape articulation (rather than as a “single font character” articulation).

Are you entering chord fingerings as stacked numbers outside the staff?
You could create a single articulation that stacks multiple digits, like this:

5
3
1


Peter


Mac Finale, 2012c, 2014d & 2014.5, Dolet 6.6 plug-in, Mac OS X 10.9.5, iMac Intel Core i7, 2.93 GHz, 16 GB RAM


Posted By : John Ruggero - 7/6/2016 12:17 PM
I also do a lot of fingering and have my metatools set up using the 1, 2, 3, 4, and G keys corresponding to the 5, 4, 3, 2, 1 finger numbers. Then I place my 5th finger on the 1 key, 4th on 2, 3rd on 3, 2nd on 4, and thumb on G. Then I "play in" the fingering as if I were playing the music with my left hand. When I use my fifth finger, I am placing a 5 in the score etc. Any keys could be set up similarly, but the point is to set them up in a way which keeps the fingers and the thumb in a natural position on the keyboard.

DaveC, if the following is obvious to you, then please forgive the dissertation; however I thought that it might be helpful to anyone reading this thread who is not comfortable with keyboard fingering:

The basic rule of placing finger numbers in keyboard music is to use as few as necessary.

Stacked finger numbers of 3 or 4 numbers are usually unnecessary (except maybe in educational settings.) Look at well-engraved and edited keyboard music by well-known publishers, and you will see mostly single numbers, some doubles, and only a few triples. Stacks of finger numbers take up a valuable real estate and can overcomplicate and clutter the score.

For example, indicating where the thumb plays the bottom note in a three or four note chord is usually not necessary because it is obvious. If the thumb is not used on the lowest note of a three-note chord, then a single finger number under the chord shows the finger that plays the note, in which case the higher fingers become obvious and do not need to be indicated. The same is often true of the middle note of chords. The fingering choice between 2, 3, or 4 is easily found on the basis of hand comfort. So for most chords, only a single finger number is necessary. If a stack of 3 or 4 numbers IS actually needed, it may be placed to the left of the notes rather than over them. And single finger numbers may be placed similarly.

A small bracket, often with a finger number to the left of it, is traditional to show two (or even more) notes played by the same finger.


Mac mini (OS 10.8.5) with dual monitors, Finale 2014d (Finale 2011 as a backup) with GPO 4
Kurzweil Mark 5 with M-Audio Midisport 2 x 2, Adobe InDesign CS4 SmartScore X Pro, JW Plug-ins
www.cantilenapress.com

The better the composer, the better the notation.

Post Edited (John Ruggero) : 7/7/2016 8:51:25 AM (GMT-5)


Posted By : DaveC - 7/6/2016 2:47 PM
Thanks, Peter!

Posted By : DaveC - 7/6/2016 2:48 PM
I was just trying to use the buttons at the top of the posts. A person named Peter made a great reply and I was trying to reply to him. The buttons in this forum don't show what they do when you mouse over them. I accidentally clicked a button to "Ignore" Peter's post. How do I undo this?

Posted By : Daz - 7/6/2016 3:39 PM
Hi Dave

At the top of the page, is button marked "Control Panel" (just next to "Log Off")
On the control panel page is a button marked "Edit Ignored Users"
From there you can manage/change their status.

Cheers...


Daz. :o)

------------------------
Finale 2006-2011 - Win7 64 bit


Posted By : DaveC - 7/6/2016 3:40 PM
Thanks, Daz!

Posted By : DaveC - 7/6/2016 3:53 PM
Thanks, John. Your suggestions are very helpful. My fingerings are for piano students, to teach them how to choose fingering for themselves when reading a piece. I give them a lot of early help, but we talk about why certain fingering choices are helpful. Then they can fish for themselves later.

This thread constitutes my first post to this forum, and it's ended up being quite long, so my apologies for that. But the help has been great, so thank you.

I just read the help file for the forum and I didn't see anything explaining the buttons under each members' names in the left column of this page. They're not self-explanatory (except "email" and "private message," I understood those) and there are no mouse-over hints. I'm trying to figure out how you guys are doing QUOTED replies, where your replies include what you're replying about.

Posted By : Daz - 7/6/2016 5:51 PM
Hi Dave

The icon with the exclamation mark is the one you want.
You were so close on your first attempt :-)

I have not used the other two. The thumb down is too negative for me (never wanted to dislike a comment/ignore someone)
The exclamation mark looks dangerous. My computer might blow up if I touch it!

When you are composing a message, you can also use the button that says "quote"
If you look just above the box you type text in, you'll also see a little 'balloon' with a question mark, and "- mCode Help" written next to it.
That will open a window with some help on how to use the various tags/commands to display things in your post.

Cheers...


Daz. :o)

------------------------
Finale 2006-2011 - Win7 64 bit


Posted By : DaveC - 7/6/2016 6:14 PM
Daz said...
Hi Dave

The icon with the exclamation mark is the one you want.
You were so close on your first attempt :-)

I have not used the other two. The thumb down is too negative for me (never wanted to dislike a comment/ignore someone)
The exclamation mark looks dangerous. My computer might blow up if I touch it!

When you are composing a message, you can also use the button that says "quote"
If you look just above the box you type text in, you'll also see a little 'balloon' with a question mark, and "- mCode Help" written next to it.
That will open a window with some help on how to use the various tags/commands to display things in your post.

Cheers...


Thanks, Daz! That's exactly what I needed to know. I honestly didn't recognize the "thumbs down" because they used so few pixels to create it. I see now that that's what it is. :)

Thanks all. We can close this thread, delete it, or leave it out there for others as needed.