The original version of this page can be found at : http://forum.makemusic.com/default.aspx?f=5&m=490238
Posted By : Edward Windels - 12/15/2016 5:05 PM
Working on a project where my trumpets change from C to E back to C. I should by rights retain the original notation, even though I'm pretty sure the piece will be played on C's and transposed at sight.

For the full score, I'm guessing the fastest way to do this is to have one set of three staves labelled in C, and another set of three labelled in E, and optimize (which I'm doing anyway).

Unless anyone has a faster method?

Posted By : Ron. - 12/15/2016 5:09 PM
I don't understand the problem. Why not just change the key signature instead of changing instruments and write the parts appropriately transposed?


Finale 25.2

GPO5, JaBB3, GIO, COMB2, GWI, GIFF, Steinway Basic.

Windows 7; 10 GB RAM.

www.composeforums.com


Posted By : Edward Windels - 12/15/2016 5:14 PM
You mean make the key signature for the three trumpets independent...

I suspect my method may, in the long run, be the more time-saving: the instrument name on the left side of the score will need to reflect which trumpet is in which key, and I think I'd be looking at Staff Styles with your method, no? So in the long run it's 50/50?

Posted By : Motet - 12/15/2016 5:26 PM
Ron's advice ignores the issue of playback, I'm afraid.

I most commonly do this with clarinets switching between Bb and A clarinet. I use staff styles, but there is also the newer Change Instrument utility. The problem with the latter is that you must select something from a list (a major flaw, in my opinion), and there is no Trumpet in E. You could use Bb Trumpet I suppose and then go and change the transposition, but I think staff styles are easier, since you will be keeping the same playback sound. This will give your the staff labels you desire, but you should also add expressions "to E Trumpet" and then "in E", or similar.

Having separate staves and optimizing sounds like unnecessary work.


Finale 2014.5, 2011b, 2005, TGTools
Windows 7, 32-bit
MIDI input
Finale Transposition Chart


Posted By : Zuill - 12/15/2016 6:54 PM
Easiest way: Change Instrument utility.

Zuill


"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
 
Win 7 64bit, 2011b, 2012c, 2014d, 2014.5, 25.2
 
Favorite Forum quote: "Please, everybody, IGNORE THE TROLL!"


Posted By : Motet - 12/15/2016 7:00 PM
See my posting. No Trumpet in E. I also don't like the fact that you can't see where the instrument changes by looking at the score itself.


Finale 2014.5, 2011b, 2005, TGTools
Windows 7, 32-bit
MIDI input
Finale Transposition Chart


Posted By : Edward Windels - 12/15/2016 7:19 PM
Right: as Motet points out, I'd have to create one or special finagle it some way, plus no accurate playback, which I need. And I'm now half way through it so I suspect my method is the most expeditious. But it never hurts to check. Thanks, gang.

Posted By : Zuill - 12/16/2016 2:19 AM
I tried downloading that file (Motet's) and it doesn't seem to be a Finale file.

Zuill

P.S.: Whoa. Where did it go?


"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
 
Win 7 64bit, 2011b, 2012c, 2014d, 2014.5, 25.2
 
Favorite Forum quote: "Please, everybody, IGNORE THE TROLL!"


Posted By : Motet - 12/16/2016 3:03 AM
Oh, sorry. My posting seemed like a needless afterthought, so I deleted it. Here's the file, though (showing change from trumpet in C to trumpet in E and back again with a staff style--look at it with the Staff tool).

Setting "Hide key signature & show accidentals" in the score manager seems to work, if you want that.


Finale 2014.5, 2011b, 2005, TGTools
Windows 7, 32-bit
MIDI input
Finale Transposition Chart

Post Edited (Motet) : 12/16/2016 2:00:14 AM (GMT-6)


Posted By : Zuill - 12/16/2016 4:17 AM
Here's your file revised with a second staff doing the same thing with the Change Instrument utility.

Zuill


"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
 
Win 7 64bit, 2011b, 2012c, 2014d, 2014.5, 25.2
 
Favorite Forum quote: "Please, everybody, IGNORE THE TROLL!"


Posted By : Motet - 12/16/2016 12:43 PM
Looks like you altered the unused Trumpet in D, but that must have been just as much trouble as creating and applying a staff style, and no particular advantage that I can see. What if the piece had Bb, C, and A clarinets (not uncommon)? There are only two clarinets in Finale's repertoire. Or some Verdi opera with trumpets in four different keys?

Change instrument certainly offers advantages if your going between sax and flute, say, since it changes the playback as well. But that's not so helpful here. What I don't like about it is that (unless I'm missing something) you can't tell by looking at the score where the change is. Instead you must deal with measure numbers in the score manager. I think the O.P. wants key signatureless trumpets, which exacerbates the problem since there would be no visible key change.

Is there a way to fix the column headings in the Score Manager, by the way? The little UI symbols for adjusting columns appear, but seem to be inoperative. Not only the column headings--in this example, the measure number is unreadable because the columns are too narrow.


Finale 2014.5, 2011b, 2005, TGTools
Windows 7, 32-bit
MIDI input
Finale Transposition Chart

Post Edited (Motet) : 12/16/2016 11:02:21 AM (GMT-6)


Posted By : Charles Lawrence - 12/16/2016 1:59 PM
I make the Score Manager Window larger by dragging the edge handles, like any Windows window.  Hover the mouse pointer over column boundaries and the double headed arrow appears.  Double click to expand/reduce the column to the largest entry in the column.  Again SOP for Windows.  Dragging the right edge of a column also works for all but M, S, Prg, Ch., and Start.  These column widths appear to be fixed and grow according to their contents.  This may be by design or may be a bug.  Take your pick! 


"Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about!"

Windows 10 Professional (x64) (build 10586)
 
3.50 gigahertz Intel Core i7-5930K, Multi-core (6 total), Hyper-threaded (12 total)
32638 Megabytes Usable Installed Memory, 17514.37 Gigabytes Usable Hard Drive Capacity
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 980 - 4GB [Display adapter]
ASUS Rampage V Extreme motherboard, Realtek HD Audio

Finale 2014.5.6359, Finale 25.2.0.92
Garritan GPO4.02


Cakewalk SONAR X3 - (X3e build 244) - x64, Sound Forge Audio Studio 10.0, Audacity 2.1.0
Sharpeye 2.68, PhotoScore Ultimate 7.0.2, SmartScore X2 Pro 10.5.8

"There is a world of difference between a person who has a big problem and a person who makes a problem big." – John Maxwell

Post Edited (Charles Lawrence) : 12/16/2016 12:14:15 PM (GMT-6)


Posted By : Motet - 12/16/2016 3:03 PM
>This may be by design or may be a bug. Take your pick!

I pick bug.

I would at least like to see the column headings. The auto-adjust of the width doesn't work with "Show defined measure numbers," which they likely never tested.


Finale 2014.5, 2011b, 2005, TGTools
Windows 7, 32-bit
MIDI input
Finale Transposition Chart