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Posted By : Wlgold - 12/24/2016 12:21 PM
I hardly ever use lyrics so this may be a dumb question. When I start a measure with a lyric and an expression, the two invariably collide. In older versions of Finale I think there was a setting under Document Options that prevented this, but I don't see it in Finale 25.2. Is there some way to go back after the fact and un-collide everything without adjusting each one manually? The vertical collision plugin doesn't seem to help.


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Posted By : Zuill - 12/24/2016 12:24 PM
I've not known of such a setting. There is a setting to keep syllables from colliding with each other, but not for collisions colliding with expressions.

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Posted By : ebiggs1 - 12/24/2016 12:33 PM
I don't do lyrics either until I was asked to put a piece in to Finale for publishing. I saw the same problem and was told by the publisher it was OK to put hairpins and dynamics on top of the staff.


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Posted By : Zuill - 12/24/2016 12:35 PM
Not only okay, but standard for vocal music.

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Posted By : Dr. Wiggy - 12/24/2016 2:16 PM
Zuill said...
Not only okay, but standard for vocal music.


Quite. In a vocal score, pretty much everything apart from the lyrics goes above the stave. This can even include articulations and triplet brackets/numbers on upward stems.


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Posted By : Mike Rosen - 12/24/2016 3:00 PM
So what do you do if you have multiple lines, like SATB, each with their own lyrics? I have seen some published score where they put them over every staff, with the resultant crowding and collisions. Is it acceptable to put them only above the top staff?



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Posted By : Dr. Wiggy - 12/24/2016 4:33 PM
Generally, you need to leave enough space between staves for lyrics of the staff above and the expressions of the staff below. It's just that because you don't want stuff between the notes and the lyrics, you might as well put it on the top, rather than below the lyrics.


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Posted By : Mike Rosen - 12/24/2016 5:11 PM
That's what I thought. But it can really limit what fits on a page.



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Posted By : Derrek - 12/24/2016 6:47 PM
That's why choral music frequently uses a smaller staff size.


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Posted By : ttw - 12/24/2016 6:50 PM
Mike Rosen said...
So what do you do if you have multiple lines, like SATB, each with their own lyrics? I have seen some published score where they put them over every staff, with the resultant crowding and collisions. Is it acceptable to put them only above the top staff?

I suppose the traditional solution would be to publish part books rather than a score.


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Posted By : Mike Rosen - 12/24/2016 7:01 PM
That works with instruments. You put your fingers there, and the right sound (usually) comes out. I think singers (speaking as one, myself) like knowing what the other parts are doing, and picking up the occasional pitch from them.

I don't think I've ever seen a vocal part score.



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Posted By : Derrek - 12/25/2016 9:24 AM
Well, they used to exist. Have you ever seen (images of) those oversized velum books where each part was oriented in a different direction for singers that gathered around the one hand-copied book to see their part? The Middle Ages/Renaissance was a different world.


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Posted By : Dr. Wiggy - 12/25/2016 2:42 PM
The sort of music that used to appear in part-books (or choir-books or table-books) didn't really have much call for dynamics and other expressions!

I always hated the Durand & Cie Vocal Scores, which had multi-measure rests and no organ part, save for a few cue notes.

Here's a 1660 printed part.


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Posted By : Derrek - 12/25/2016 4:29 PM
I suppose after trying to figure out how to fit syllables to the notes, dynamics and expressions would be the least of their medieval worries. :-)


Finale 2014.5, Finale 25.1 - Windows 7 (64-bit)
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“Outside of a dog, a book is a man’s best friend. Inside of a dog it’s too dark to read.” — Groucho Marx