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Posted By : Jack Helsley - 10/16/2016 7:01 PM
Apologies if this has been answered. I'm using Finale 2014.5 on El Capitan. I'm having accidental collisions. Earlier in the piece, it's fine, but later it collides, and I can't fix with Music Spacing:

Posted By : N. Grossingink - 10/16/2016 7:17 PM
It looks like your systems are overfilled. Try one or 2 less measures per system. Do you have "avoid collisions of chords" checked in Music Spacing options? That can result in raggedy spacing. I never use that option, but that's just me.

Try less music per system so the eighths are evenly spaced, and move the chords slightly if you need to. That would be my approach.


OSX El Capitan 10.11.6
Finale 2011c, 2012c for production work

Finale 2014.5, not used by my clients

(Finale v25 - not interested yet)

TgTools, Patterson Plugins, JW Change and Staff Polyphony, QuicKeys 4
Mac Mini 2.4 Ghz Intel, 8GB RAM
New Belgium Fat Tire Ale

Posted By : Flint - 10/16/2016 8:13 PM
Yeah, you're just trying to crowd too much onto the system. Even jazz music should look well engraved.

woodwind specialist and doubler - Finale 2014d using Speedy Entry - no capslock, GPO 4 Full, Garritan Jazz & Big Band 3, Garritan Concert and Marching Band 2, Windows 10, 12GB RAM, frequently RTFM.

If the composer says in effect to the performer: "I do not care whether you perform my music or not," we cannot argue the matter. But if he indicates: "I want you to perform and respond to this music," then his fundamental duty is to write his music so that it is accessible to interpretation. When the performer cannot approach the composer's meaning because of capriciously obscure notation, he may in effect say to the composer: "Why should I bother to puzzle out your music?" - Gardner Read

Posted By : Jack Helsley - 10/17/2016 10:24 AM
Well...thanks for the support of "jazz"?...No one has addressed the question why it's fine on one system, but the exact same music is "too crowded" on another? (Although, I sense your preferred answer would be "change them to triads")?

Posted By : Peter Thomsen - 10/17/2016 10:39 AM
Jack Helsley,

To find the culprit we may need to see a (small) Finale sample document with the problem.
I suggest that you attach a small Finale document here.

Having an actual document to examine might be faster than “shooting in the dark”/guessing.
While guessing we might just be asking you a lot of technical questions you could not understand.


Mac Finale, 2012c, 2014d & 2014.5, Dolet 6.6 plug-in, Mac OS X 10.11.6, iMac Intel Core i7, 2.93 GHz, 16 GB RAM

Posted By : Jack Helsley - 10/17/2016 10:50 AM
Here you are:

Posted By : Peter Thomsen - 10/17/2016 1:52 PM
Jack Helsley,

Indeed the spacing is tight, “crowded”.

You are using a scaling percentage of 85 %.

That is a bit too big for professional engraving (unless the engraving is for students at beginner level).

Take a look at the attached document where I have reduced the scaling percentage to 75 %.
As Far As I Can Tell, the reduced scaling percentage has eliminated all the accidental collisions.


Mac Finale, 2012c, 2014d & 2014.5, Dolet 6.6 plug-in, Mac OS X 10.11.6, iMac Intel Core i7, 2.93 GHz, 16 GB RAM

Posted By : Vaughan - 10/17/2016 3:53 PM
And besides, you'd locked the systems so Finale couldn't spread out the music the way it would have had to in order to create good line spacing. If you remove the system locks and update the layout, Finale adds two systems to the piece, just going to show that you tried to crowd the music too much. However, I agree with Peter that the scaling is too large (IMHO, even for beginners!) and that 75% works better and allows the layout on two pages without squashing. One unfortunate flaw in Finale's spacing: the accidentals aren't always placed well (kerned or tucked) in chords. The flat before the E in the A half diminished 7th chord (mm. 1 and 3) should be moved over about 28 EVPUs, just like both accidentals in the G half diminished 7th chords in m. 5, and in a number of chords after that. Good kerning of the accidentals helps the chords take up no more space than necessary and it just looks better. Plugins like TG Tools can help with this but unfortunately it doesn't belong to Finale's basic functionality.


Finale 3.2 - 25, Sibelius 4 - 7
Patterson's plugins, Tobias' plugins, full version, waiting for Jari's plugin update
MacOS 10.12
MacPro (2016) 16 GB, MacBookPro (2011) 8 GB


Posted By : Knut - 10/17/2016 5:54 PM
I disagree that the scaling is too large. To my understanding, such large scaling is customary in large parts of the jazz and show music world.

As Vaughan suggests, unlock your systems and be sure to move some of your accidentals closer to the notes using the Special Tools/Accidentals Tool. After that, your music should fit just fine on two pages with your current spacing settings.

13" MacBook Pro 2.8 Ghz. Intel Core i5, 16 GB RAM, Apogee Duet 2, Samsung SyncMaster 245b
OSX 10.9.5, Finale 2011c and 2014b (not using it yet) w/GPO & JABB, Patterson Plug-Ins, TG-Tools and QuickKeys 4; Sibelius 6, Logic Pro X, Adobe CS3, FontLab Studio 4, FontExplorer X Pro 3

Posted By : Jack Helsley - 10/17/2016 6:25 PM
Thanks all!