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Posted By : Shnootre - 12/9/2016 10:48 PM
I can't believe Finale has finally added the ability to leave octave-transposing instruments transposed when viewing in concert pitch.

(I also can't believe it worked any other way in the first place).

This comes two days before I hand in all materials for my opera. This would have saved me some time and frustration on this project, but I guess I'll be glad to have it for the next one.

Kudos Finale folks. You may be shutting down this forum (which is a dumb move), but you've actually added some really important functionality with this one!


Daniel Sonenberg
Macbook Pro 2.5 GHz Intel Core i7
OSX 10.9.4
16 gig ram
GPO4 full and JABB3
A bunch of sample libraries
Finale 25
Logic X


Posted By : Christopher Smith - 12/9/2016 10:55 PM
I have to say, I am not nuts about this.

I hate having to guess what octave I'm in with C scores, and always notate concert pitch scores with octave-transposing clefs so that it is blindingly obvious which octave is required.

Obviously, piccolo, contrabass and the like would show up WITHOUT the octave clef in a transposed score and on the part, as is custom.


Christopher Smith

Mac Mini (Late 2014) 2.8 Ghz Intel Core i5, 8GB RAM
OSX Yosemite 10.10.5
Finale 2014.5 and V. 25
or
Macbook Pro (Retina, 13 inch, early 2015) 2.7 Ghz Intel Core i5, 8 GB RAM
OSX Yosemite 10.10.5
Finale 2014.5 and V. 25


Posted By : Shnootre - 12/9/2016 11:36 PM
Well there's no reason you can't stick with your practice. I have, until now, always used octave transposing clefs too. But is there any circumstance when you actually DO want the 8ve transposing instruments to show up transposed? Looking at a printed score, isn't it always presumed that contrabassoon sounds an octave lower, even in a C score?

I like having the choice. Those 8ve clefs can be a pain to set up, and can lead to trouble/oversight w/ instrument changes etc. They also require a lot of clef hiding via staff style, which is a pain. I am thrilled about this change.


Daniel Sonenberg
Macbook Pro 2.5 GHz Intel Core i7
OSX 10.9.4
16 gig ram
GPO4 full and JABB3
A bunch of sample libraries
Finale 25
Logic X


Posted By : MikeHalloran - 12/10/2016 1:52 AM
I remember complaining about this in Finale 199whatever. It's about time.


Finale 25.1, 2014.5, 2011c, SmartScore X Pro II, Encore 5.07, GPO 5
2010 iMac i7, 32G RAM, 2T SSD, Late 2013 MacBook Air, OS 10.12.1
MOTU Digital Performer 9.12, 9.02, Logic Pro X 10.2.4


Posted By : Christopher Smith - 12/10/2016 12:25 PM
Shnootre said...
Well there's no reason you can't stick with your practice. I have, until now, always used octave transposing clefs too. But is there any circumstance when you actually DO want the 8ve transposing instruments to show up transposed? Looking at a printed score, isn't it always presumed that contrabassoon sounds an octave lower, even in a C score?

I like having the choice. Those 8ve clefs can be a pain to set up, and can lead to trouble/oversight w/ instrument changes etc. They also require a lot of clef hiding via staff style, which is a pain. I am thrilled about this change.


You are of course right that I can continue with my old habits by deselecting the option, which I will do.

But the octave clefs are built into Finale. I make the first clef an octave clef, then forget about it. The transposition option for that instrument will set the clef to the non-octave clef in the parts, or if I go with a transposed score. There is nothing too fussy about it and I don't need staff styles.


Christopher Smith

Mac Mini (Late 2014) 2.8 Ghz Intel Core i5, 8GB RAM
OSX Yosemite 10.10.5
Finale 2014.5 and V. 25
or
Macbook Pro (Retina, 13 inch, early 2015) 2.7 Ghz Intel Core i5, 8 GB RAM
OSX Yosemite 10.10.5
Finale 2014.5 and V. 25


Posted By : Shnootre - 12/11/2016 1:39 AM
I wonder if we have different experiences with the octave clefs. I find it a big pain. Let's say we're dealing with piccolo. I need to take the octave-transposing clef and change the appearance so it looks just like a regular treble clef (i.e. get rid of the "8"). Then I need to go into transposition and select "set to clef" so that I'll always see the transposing clef when viewing in concert pitch, and an actual treble clef when viewing transposed. Maybe you only work in transposed view? That would make things simpler (though that would sort of remove this as an issue altogether).


Daniel Sonenberg
Macbook Pro 2.5 GHz Intel Core i7
OSX 10.9.4
16 gig ram
GPO4 full and JABB3
A bunch of sample libraries
Finale 25
Logic X


Posted By : Shnootre - 12/11/2016 1:41 AM
one more thing - I have to remove the extra clefs w/ staff styles. Like if a flute switches to picc, in my concert score the extraneous clef appears (even though it looks identical). This problem only comes up in the score, but I have to remember to hide the clef, and only in the score (and I can't do it until I'm in layout mode, because I'm not sure where exactly the measures are going to sit, and I don't want to remove the clef if the measure is first on a page (in which case I usually have to move the instrument change).

This latter issue only pertains to doubling insts w/ 8ve transpositions like picc, contra bassoon, xylo, etc.


Daniel Sonenberg
Macbook Pro 2.5 GHz Intel Core i7
OSX 10.9.4
16 gig ram
GPO4 full and JABB3
A bunch of sample libraries
Finale 25
Logic X


Posted By : Vaughan - 12/11/2016 5:49 AM
Unfortunately, the new octave transposition feature causes problems with Patterson Beams. I'll report this.


Vaughan

Finale 3.2 - 25.1, Sibelius 4 - 7
Patterson's plugins, Tobias' plugins, full version, waiting for Jari's plugin update
MacOS 10.12
MacPro (2016) 16 GB, MacBookPro (2011) 8 GB

Amsterdam


Posted By : Zuill - 12/11/2016 5:53 PM
I guess your setting are different than mine, as applying Patterson beams doesn't seem to affect the look using the new feature. At least, I can't see a change. Can you post a sample for us to test? Maybe this is unique to Mac.

Zuill


"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
 
Win 7 64bit, 2011b, 2012c, 2014d, 2014.5, 25.2
 
Favorite Forum quote: "Please, everybody, IGNORE THE TROLL!"


Posted By : Christopher Smith - 12/12/2016 1:01 PM
Shnootre said...
I wonder if we have different experiences with the octave clefs. I find it a big pain. Let's say we're dealing with piccolo. I need to take the octave-transposing clef and change the appearance so it looks just like a regular treble clef (i.e. get rid of the "8"). Then I need to go into transposition and select "set to clef" so that I'll always see the transposing clef when viewing in concert pitch, and an actual treble clef when viewing transposed. Maybe you only work in transposed view? That would make things simpler (though that would sort of remove this as an issue altogether).


The transposed part is set to the regular clef by the transposition options in the Score Manager. It will also be the regular clef if I set the score to transposed, which is almost always in my case. It will also show the octave clef if I leave the score as "concert", which I rarely do, but I consider this to be an advantage.

The only drawback is playback, but I don't use that. I suppose I could define the octave clef to play back in the correct octave, but I don't need it.

Since flute and piccolo will BOTH be set to treble clef in the part, it won't show a clef change if the part has "Display in Concert Pitch" turned off, as it should.


Christopher Smith

Mac Mini (Late 2014) 2.8 Ghz Intel Core i5, 8GB RAM
OSX Yosemite 10.10.5
Finale 2014.5 and V. 25
or
Macbook Pro (Retina, 13 inch, early 2015) 2.7 Ghz Intel Core i5, 8 GB RAM
OSX Yosemite 10.10.5
Finale 2014.5 and V. 25