The original version of this page can be found at : http://forum.makemusic.com/default.aspx?f=6&m=70823
| Posted By : Jeff O'Brien - 1/17/2004 11:14 PM |
I've been an Allegro/Finale user for over two years and I still can't figure out a way to do this:
I want to use a "repeat-the-last-measure" symbol above a staff, as a chord symbol. This is for the extremely rare situation where the chord symbol DOESN'T CHANGE FOR TWO OR MORE MEASURES.
For my purposes, it is unnacceptable to leave the measure blank. Nor is it acceptable to show the same chord symbol in the second measure. Nor do I want to actually make a one-measure repeat using the staff tool. All of these options will confuse the player. Common practice has made the one-measure repeat symbol appearing above the staff the only acceptable solution.
It is actually something that is so common on jazz rhythm section parts and lead sheets that I'm frankly dumfounded as to why it's not a feature. Or, perhaps despite my diligent searching, such a feature DOES exist but continues to elude my grasp.
I realize that I could use a percentage sign as a text block or expression, but that doesn't look like a one-measure repeat symbol--it looks like a percentage sign. A proper "repeat-the-last-measure" symbol should have closed circles on either side of the diagonal line, not open circles. Also, using a measure expression would require me to go over all of the parts that have chord symbols, check for chords that last for more than two bars and plop a stupid-looking percentage sign there. This is tedious, and I'd be sure to miss a few spots.
I prefer to enter my chords by typing them into the score. Using the chord tool, I want to type something into a measure that simply displays a one-measure repeat symbol. Or, failing that, I want to be able to do SOMETHING to get a proper one-measure repeat sign to appear above the staff. I don't care about playback.
Any help would be greatly appreciated!
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| Posted By : Jim Coull - 1/18/2004 3:39 AM | There are two ways to get the job done. The first is to create a chord suffix that is the single bar repeat sign (option left bracket in Maestro) and enter it as a chord symbol without a root over a whole rest. Secondly, you can enter it as a measure attached expression after you are done with your chords.
I am not trying to change your mind, but from what I have observed, chord symbols are assumed to remain in effect until a different chord appears. If a lead sheet has a Bb7 chord for two bars, it is just shown at the beginning of the 1st bar with no repeat symbol of any type in the second. This is the convention used in the New Real Books (Sher), the Just Real Fakebooks (Warner Brothers) and the illegal Real Books as well as most published jazz charts that I have come accross.
Jim CoullPost Edited (Jim Coull) : 1/18/2004 7:40:20 AM GMT |
| Posted By : michelp - 1/18/2004 7:53 AM | Jim Coull said...
There are two ways to get the job done. The first is to create a chord suffix that is the single bar repeat sign (option left bracket in Maestro) and enter it as a chord symbol without a root over a whole rest. Secondly, you can enter it as a measure attached expression after you are done with your chords.
As Jim points out, there is no need to substitute a percentage symbol, as the one bar repeat exists in the music fonts. On my keyboard, in Maestro, I have to type option-4 on the main keyboard (I use an AZERTY keyboard) and 24 is the font size to use.
As a matter of fact, it is convenient to have symbols like this one also available as text expressions, for several special situations. For instance, I also have created single, double, triple, quadruple slashes (as text expressions) which I can easily place above staves in the same manner whenever "slash notation" is not ideal.
Michel
Finale 2003a, MacOs 9.2.2Post Edited (michelp) : 1/18/2004 11:56:18 AM GMT |
| Posted By : Jeff O'Brien - 1/18/2004 2:28 PM | Thanks for your help!
Jim, my experience with the illegal real books (5th edition, specifically) is exactly why this method seems appropriate to me. I prefer the one-measure repeats when I'm reading a chord chart because it's easier to see the measures themselves (barlines sometimes blur together and get lost in a sea of slashes). It does seem to be the norm in my part of the world, at least. To each his own, and thanks a lot for the tips.
Michel, I assume your using the slashes above the staff to clearly show different harmonic rhythms. Do you have a method for showing more complex ensemble kicks with rhythmic slash notation above the staff? |
| Posted By : michelp - 1/18/2004 4:05 PM | Nebula said...
Michel, I assume your using the slashes above the staff to clearly show different harmonic rhythms.
Rather in the situation where the player has some notes to play in the mesasure, but also a chord to change on a certain beat. Then I align the chord to the correct slash.
Nebula said...
Do you have a method for showing more complex ensemble kicks with rhythmic slash notation above the staff?
Not really. I occasionally use the regular "rhythmic notation" for piano, gt, bass parts, but nothing special on top of the staff (except for drums, see below, but that's done with percussion notation). By default, the standard "rhythmic notation" style in Finale is placed right in the middle of the staff, but you can change that position if you want.
Now this may be of interest for you : for drum parts (a common practice as you know), I have the cymbals on top of staff, the bass drum kicks on the bottom. But in the score I also use a second staff (1 line only) for the drums to put the slashes in it. Both staves are associated in a group called "drums", and I superimpose the two for the extraction of the drum part. Advantage : slashes are in the middle and the cymbals and bass drum kick are still visible on top and bottom.
Michel
Finale 2003a, MacOs 9.2.2 |
| Posted By : Jeff O'Brien - 1/18/2004 5:38 PM | michelp said...
Rather in the situation where the player has some notes to play in the mesasure, but also a chord to change on a certain beat. Then I align the chord to the correct slash.
But what about chord changes on an eighth-note anticipation or delayed attack? This would be appropriate for a lead sheet with say, a whole note in the melody but kicks in the rhythm section.
michelp said...
for drum parts (a common practice as you know), I have the cymbals on top of staff, the bass drum kicks on the bottom. But in the score I also use a second staff (1 line only) for the drums to put the slashes in it. Both staves are associated in a group called "drums", and I superimpose the two for the extraction of the drum part. Advantage : slashes are in the middle and the cymbals and bass drum kick are still visible on top and bottom.
Thanks for the tip--so far I've seen two methods for entering drum kicks that seem like they'd work. I have yet to try them out, because I only recently upgraded to Finale from Allegro, and my options with Allegro were rather limiting in this area. Basically, I just wish we could have kicks over time as a staff style.
P.S. The one bar repeat is option-RIGHT bracket in Maestro, not option-LEFT bracket, if anyone cares.Post Edited (Nebula) : 1/18/2004 10:07:12 PM GMT |
| Posted By : michelp - 1/18/2004 6:58 PM | Jeff O'Brien said...
But what about chord changes on an eighth-note anticipation or delayed attack? This would be appropriate for a lead sheet with say, a whole note in the melody but kicks in the rhythm section..
Jeff,
I have two suggestions you might want to look at (check the jpeg below):
EXAMPLE 1 :
Layer 1 : whole note
Layer 2 : accent on 4/end (rests have been hidden), notehead changed to a cross with the ToolBox, Note Shape Tool (x is char 192)
Slashes have been created as text expressions (I have created simple, double, triple and quadruple slashes), and easily placed above staff.
EXAMPLE 2 :
Layer 1 : whole note
I have created a Staff Style which applies "Rhythmic Notation" to LAYER 2
Layer 2 : accent on 4/end (rests have been hidden)
Staff Styles : Apply the new staff style "Rhythmic Notation to Layer 2"
Again, slashes have been created as text expressions
Michel
Finale 2003a, MacOs 9.2.2 |
| Posted By : Dick Brodfuehrer - 1/18/2004 7:05 PM |
Jeff O'Brien said...
I want to use a "repeat-the-last-measure" symbol above a staff, as a chord symbol. This is for the extremely rare situation where the chord symbol DOESN'T CHANGE FOR TWO OR MORE MEASURES.
Check this link. I believe their chord font will do everything you want.
(Currently using: Finale 2003a, Windows 98-2e, TGTools 2.25, and Glenlivet when I can afford it.)
It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing!
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| Posted By : Jim Coull - 1/18/2004 10:44 PM | "P.S. The one bar repeat is option-RIGHT bracket in Maestro, not option-LEFT bracket, if anyone cares."
Thanks for catching my error, Jeff.
Jim Coull |
| Posted By : Jeff O'Brien - 1/19/2004 1:48 PM | Well, I'm pleasantly surprised at how helpful these forums have been! Thanks to everyone for their suggestions!
Jeff O'Brien, Finale 2004, OSX |
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